Thoughts and feedback on Wigfrid's skill tree

[CuteC]

Yeah I am not giving up.

This time though I will attempt to make everything much cleaner while explaining well what's wrong with stuff.

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COMMANDER'S HELM

She has a new helmet that's pretty neat, the recipe got changed from using azure feathers (absolute pain to get) to using marble which I think is a good choice since marble doesn't have a lot of uses... but why would we ever make this helmet?

You see it has the exact same defense as a regular battle helm, but the items it needs are gold, beef fur and marble which take 3 inv slots with 2 uncommon items over battle helms which use 2 slots with common items, so it is less efficient on inventory space while providing the exact same stats, well almost, it has SLIGHTLY more durability, knockback reduction, 15% more rain protection and... 60 insulation? What?
It seems to me that the devs had no idea how to properly buff the commander's helm to differentiate it from battle helms and kinda just threw together the first things that came to mind?

Let's talk about the main perk of the commander's helm, knockback protection; at the point you can make this helmet there's like one enemy that has knockback and it is nightmare werepig and it's not exactly... needed, with the speed he attacks with, the rest of the knockback enemies are post-rift, but the problem is that if you're post rift you want post-rift gear, not this helmet that will get you mauled because it has close to no planar defense (and even less for allies I believe), second problem arises and it is that you want a brightshade sword at this point, but it will not get damage boosted by the commander's helm, so in what situation are you supposed to use it? Does it even have a purpose?

Now, it also has just a bit more durability which I REALLY don't think is enough to sell me on commander's helm, considering it is not even that much and you upgrade the durability of the regular battle helms TWICE before being able to get commander's helms.

20% -> 35% rain protection is pretty much nothing and it will still get your stuff slipping from your hands.

60 insulation just... I don't even know what to say, why would you do this?

Also you get a skill which regenerates like 1% durability every 10 seconds or so BUT only at full HP AND while you're in combat... which seems extremely slow for something that is rarely going to happen? Not to mention unnecessary.

At first I thought it would be post-rift gear given her stuff is kinda useless at this point, but it seems it's just a second helmet that's also turning useless, except this one happens BEFORE you are even able to make it.

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ELDING SPEAR

Now the spear is very fun to use, the first one is very good and I think it does a good job at what it is supposed to do, it is finally something that gives some needed aoe damage (which by the way I think should be more common given how stuff in this game can easily stunlock you and it is absolutely impossible to deal with a horde of enemies) although very risky to use due to possible stunlocking.

The problem comes with two things, switch cooldown and the upgraded spear.

Switch cooldown makes it impossible for you to properly use this spear with a cane, so you either dash stuff or just attack as you would with a normal weapon.

The upgraded spear sort of fixes this problem by giving the player a speed boost... but only to Wigfrid, she has been known as this character that's very good and also a much needed team player by being able to give her allies gear only she can make and cool buffs, but for some reason the upgraded spear is restricted to her? I do not understand the reason as to why, she absolutely should be able to give the spear to other people.

Going on more about the upgraded spear itself, it deals an INSANE amount of damage which kind of seems overkill, that is until you realize it is only to normal enemies, the spear is made RIGHT before fighting celestial champion given you need a restrained static which you can only get during moonstorms and to stop them you're REQUIRED to deal with the sentient ball of rocks, after you defeat them the spear is rendered nigh useless because you NEED a brightshade sword now, you see for some reason it deals less damage than an unboosted brightshade sword, so it is not exactly wise to bring it against planar enemies, I suspect the reason is that the spear is technically pre-rift so they were afraid of it being too good given you get it before the planar gear.

You'd think hey this is the perfect use for warbis! Well you're completely wrong, warbis gives an unreliable damage boost of 20% which would be 40 extra damage if you were dealing 200 damage, which you are not, if you manage to deal a 100 damage hit you are dealing 20 more damage, at that point you should use the celestial crown which is a GLOBAL damage buff that deals more damage than warbis, you could use literally any weapon and it would work given Wigfrid allows people to freely use celestial crowns as damage sources.

I'd recommend buffing the spear against planar enemies (probably even nerf damage v normal enemies like wow why is it so high) and change the recipe for the upgraded spear to include post-rift materials so it can be more on par with the brightshade sword and not only do a better job than a brightshade staff (which honestly it's not that difficult of a task given how situational that item is).

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BATTLE ROND

I cannot even begin to describe how worthless this item is, you have absolutely no reason to use it, you're better off with a battle spear and a battle helmet, "oh but you can block attacks", ok but you can do the exact same thing using the elding spear's dash which has a faster cooldown, and to put the cherry on top they conflict with each other, for some reason the battle rond is also in the spear's skill path but both of them cannot be used at the same time because of switch cooldown, also yet again you CANNOT share it with your allies.

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BATTLE STINGER COOLDOWN

This is a GOOD change, the problem is you're NEVER able to use them properly given you only build up a lot of inspiration with bosses and they are just immune to them.

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BEEFALO SKILLS

Why? Just, why? Two of them are completely useless after taming and a bit less useless during taming, I suppose the inspiration one is good for always keeping a song active but I struggle to find a use for that, also Wigfrid players are still better off attacking enemies with their own hands, lastly we get a saddle that allows for beef to tank a lot which... I do not think it was really needed, beef are already quite strong regarding HP and to trade damage for even more HP is just a strange choice to make, you can also regen their HP in a matter of seconds if prepared.

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AFFINITIES

They are just really weak and honestly wouldn't even bother with them but it's not like you have other options given you are not gonna use the rond or the helmet.

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I looked up to the day the Wigfrid skill tree would be made, I had high expectations with how the game has been turning out but most of her skill tree is just stuff you have no reason to use, I REALLY want it to be good given she is my favorite character and that's why I will always continue fighting for it, at the very least allow her gear to be used by teammates.

[Frashaw27]

31 minutes ago, CuteC said:

not this helmet that will get you mauled because it has close to no planar defense

It actually doesn't, atleast against normal planar enemies, the damage was roughly the same.

Granted, the lunar plant hat did in fact absorb more damage, an entire singular point of damage. So yes, you are right that you should technically be using the brightshade helm as it is more effective at protecting you. However, the reduction loss between the two is so minimal I would hardly call it mauling. While you are right that the helm is a bit underwhelming, the armor works perfectly fine for late game use, meaning you aren't really losing anything when you do use it like this. It is indeed lesser, but the amount is so insignificant that it seems more like cherry picking for an argument for why the armor is bad.

42 minutes ago, CuteC said:

Now, it also has just a bit more durability which I REALLY don't think is enough to sell me on commander's helm, considering it is not even that much and you upgrade the durability of the regular battle helms TWICE before being able to get commander's helms.

Upgrades that only apply to Wigfrid, meaning that it does remain superior in terms of durability when worn by other players, which you seem so focused on. I will agree it's not enough to be the main selling point, but I think the materials are farmable enough to atleast make them better to use in prep instead of battle helms if your hoarding armor for a fight like the shadow pieces which gives you plenty of prep time to do such higher quality armor grinding.

46 minutes ago, CuteC said:

60 insulation just... I don't even know what to say, why would you do this?

For winter fights? I mean it isn't much but hell, I'll take the ability to stave off the cold a little while longer while also not having pants down because I have no armor. Even if it's not that impactful if your trying to min max insulation, the dual purpose is still appreciated and helpful.

49 minutes ago, CuteC said:

Also you get a skill which regenerates like 1% durability every 10 seconds or so BUT only at full HP AND while you're in combat... which seems extremely slow for something that is rarely going to happen? Not to mention unnecessary.

And this is the reason why it's good. People like having renewable things, regardless of how it's gotten. Just look at dreadstone armor, people flipped from despising it to thinking it's some of the best armor in the game after it gained the ability to trade sanity for duribility. Also the regen isn't 1% every 10 seconds, it's more ~1% per. hit.

Before fighting a brightshade:

After fighting a brightshade:

After fighting a singular brightshade, it gained 16% durability back. I don't know about you, but that's pretty significant against a pretty trash mob. I have a feeling that the reason why you were getting trash numbers is because you were using below average stuff against fodder mobs, when that's unbeneficial as the skill says it takes from Wigfrid's natural healing to repair the helm, and the wiki page says that the amount of said healing increases as you use better weapons against better mobs. Sure, in a more practical sceanario, it's going to not go up so fast, but to discount it entirely is malarky in my opinion. The amount it repairs for not turning off my brain and fighting properly is significant, especially for areas with a lot of mini fights like the ruins that are easy to get hp, and thus duarbility, off of.

All in all, the helmet isn't useless. It may need a the two companion abilities to assist it, but that be disingenuous as the elding spear has the same issue.

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

I do not understand the reason as to why, she absolutely should be able to give the spear to other people.

So that her unique weapon isn't used by other players? Sure it's an outlier, but I don't see a reason why it's bad to have the unique weapon restricted to them so the player feels like they have some uniqueness compared to the rest of the team. I honestly don't see anything wrong with allowing Wigfrid to keep some her skill tree for herself. 

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

you NEED a brightshade sword now

You don't. While people may **** on the planar defense system a lot, the vast majority of the character's aren't combat locked without one. There's also other planar weapons like the Shadow Reaper. There's also the fact that you don't NEED to open the rifts as soon as you defeat celestial champion. Your free to twiddle your thumbs on that for as long as you like while enjoying your free +20 damage boost.

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

you see for some reason it deals less damage than an unboosted brightshade sword

It doesn't:

Unboosted Brightshade against Varg: 61

The Charged Elding Spear: 64

It only becomes more after putting on the Brightshade Helm, by an entire 5 points:

Like the commander helm, it is indeed inferior but by such an insignficant amount, it takes an entire 3 extra hits from the spear to kill the Possessed Varg. Technically worse, sure, neigh useless, not in the slightest. This isn't even mentioning the fact that it does electric damage meaning it will do more unless she has electric jelly one, which is a bit ingenuous of a point when comparing innate power by herself. I suspect that your using a bit of hyperbole in your post, but it's a bit disingenuous as it potrays the spear as trash when it really is ever so slightly less optimal against only planar mobs.

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

ou could use literally any weapon and it would work given Wigfrid allows people to freely use celestial crowns as damage sources

And as shown from my screenshot, you'd be more useful with the strat while using the elding spear, against both planar and normal enemies, because it deals more damage then an unboosted planar sword. Funny how things work out.

The spear is beyond fine, like I expressed during the beta, I would use the weapon both before and post rifts as it simply does keep place and gives access to more special abilities while the lunar plant sword gives no special abilities and less damage at the benefit of being able to instantly repair instead of over the course of 2 minutes killing spiders/moonstorm birds/shadow splmonkeys. Sure, there will be a point where the elding spear loses steam from progression of gear, but it doesn't need to be changed, it's fine as it is. It does it's job, and damn well at that.

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

I cannot even begin to describe how worthless this item is, you have absolutely no reason to use it, you're better off with a battle spear and a battle helmet, "oh but you can block attacks", ok but you can do the exact same thing using the elding spear's dash which has a faster cooldown, and to put the cherry on top they conflict with each other, for some reason the battle rond is also in the spear's skill path but both of them cannot be used at the same time because of switch cooldown, also yet again you CANNOT share it with your allies.

Yeah, I can't disagree, the rond is a major stinker. While I won't say it's useless because you can get a cheeky better first hit every once in a while, it really needs the no cooldown on equip to be truly worth.

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

This is a GOOD change, the problem is you're NEVER able to use them properly given you only build up a lot of inspiration with bosses and they are just immune to them.

Can't comment as I never used stingers at all.

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

Two of them are completely useless after taming

I mean I get the domestication on becoming useless, by 30% more ride time seems useful even after fully taming it. Sure, it would be over kill, but not useless.

1 hour ago, CuteC said:

They are just really weak and honestly wouldn't even bother with them but it's not like you have other options given you are not gonna use the rond or the helmet.

I mean if your min maxxing, like you seem to be from how you constantly say how a piece of equipment are "useless" because they have slightly lower outputs then another which a specific armor combo active, it seems right up your alley. Snark aside, the songs seem to be more orientating towards using them in a team environment as while 5% is weak alone, it's suddenly alot more effective when you have like 4 people all having the buff. Plus there is always the innate benefits of alignment bonuses, so those are always good.

In retrospect, Wigfrid's skill tree is damn near perfect. The only I would change is give the cooldown stingers also lose their inspiration requirement and improve the commander's durability slightly, I'm not sure what you looking for, but out of all the skill trees we've gotten so far, this skill tree is the best for combining meaningful bonuses with unique ideas and equipment while not majorly tipping the scales in favor of her survival. Like her helms may last longer, but none of her skills are going to make her more powerful is she is played sloppily. This feels like how people were fighting to make the Wormwood tree better, but unlike the Wormwood tree which even now is a bit mediocore, Wigfrid's skill tree is genuinely good and meaningful to playing her I feel. If left as is, I would be satisfied.

[BB Marioni]

COMMANDER'S HELM
- perfectly fine. We use it now over the battle helm as the added benefits are worth it and the cost isnt that much high, specially for an armor that can potentially not break ever if you know what to do. We value all the perks this helm gives, as we dont only care about combat stats in this game, the insulation and knockback res are actually good quality of life additions while wearing this.

ELDING SPEAR
- almost fine, the only thing I think needs improvement is that the charged version should deal damage close to what a brightshade sword+helm can do vs planar enemies. It's definitely a better option against non planar, and wet enemies, but the dmg difference with brightshade against planar enemies is a bit high. They coulve reduced the physical dmg a bit and added more planar.

BATTLE ROND
- the block is actually really useful, the issue is that its not worth the damage sacrifice. I would agree with Jakeyosaurus' suggestion to increase the bonus dmg after blocking, but make it like a parry mechanic where the attack needs to hit you within 1 second after activating the block

BEEFALO SKILLS vs SONG SKILLS
- they should have just picked one among these two. She should only have 2 branches on her tree: combat and songs/ beefalo. For songs they should have focused on improving the existing ones. For Beefalo, it seems they got confused on wether to pursue making her a rider or a beefalo fighter. It should just be one.

AFFINITIES
- Always preferred special effect/ utility affinities like wormwood's or woodie's over just damage increases

[CuteC]

54 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

Granted, the lunar plant hat did in fact absorb more damage, an entire singular point of damage. So yes, you are right that you should technically be using the brightshade helm as it is more effective at protecting you. However, the reduction loss between the two is so minimal I would hardly call it mauling. While you are right that the helm is a bit underwhelming, the armor works perfectly fine for late game use, meaning you aren't really losing anything when you do use it like this. It is indeed lesser, but the amount is so insignificant that it seems more like cherry picking for an argument for why the armor is bad.

Perhaps I was stacking armor with the brightshade gear given it does work better if you use both pieces on the blights but I remain on brightshade helm being better cuz... well you can just repair it anytime easily anyway and the planar defense is not very useful pre-rift.

56 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

Upgrades that only apply to Wigfrid, meaning that it does remain superior in terms of durability when worn by other players, which you seem so focused on. I will agree it's not enough to be the main selling point, but I think the materials are farmable enough to atleast make them better to use in prep instead of battle helms if your hoarding armor for a fight like the shadow pieces which gives you plenty of prep time to do such higher quality armor grinding.

It is superior in durability but not by that much, my problem is that commander's helms are... not very different and I mean you can also just mass produce battle helms anyway and the end result would be about the same.

58 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

For winter fights? I mean it isn't much but hell, I'll take the ability to stave off the cold a little while longer while also not having pants down because I have no armor. Even if it's not that impactful if your trying to min max insulation, the dual purpose is still appreciated and helpful.

It just strikes me as kinda random is what I am trying to say.

59 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

And this is the reason why it's good. People like having renewable things, regardless of how it's gotten. Just look at dreadstone armor, people flipped from despising it to thinking it's some of the best armor in the game after it gained the ability to trade sanity for duribility. Also the regen isn't 1% every 10 seconds, it's more ~1% per. hit.

I will say I seem to have misunderstood how the skill works, as when I was testing it I was trying to stay in full HP and combat, so I tried to keep a treeguard alive as long as possible by hitting it with a cane to find out how long it would take as I thought it was time based, however it's still the case that having full HP during combat is not that common of a thing and I suspect that you don't exactly need much repairing if you somehow last a battle without being hit.

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

So that her unique weapon isn't used by other players? Sure it's an outlier, but I don't see a reason why it's bad to have the unique weapon restricted to them so the player feels like they have some uniqueness compared to the rest of the team. I honestly don't see anything wrong with allowing Wigfrid to keep some her skill tree for herself.

But her unique weapon can be used by other people just not the upgraded version which is the same thing but it does more damage, the reason I think it's bad is because Wigfrid has always been the char that gives other people her gear so they have a better chance at survival, but suddenly she decided that other people were not good enough to have a static spear for some reason.

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

And as shown from my screenshot, you'd be more useful with the strat while using the elding spear, against both planar and normal enemies, because it deals more damage then an unboosted planar sword.

I am gonna be honest I derailed a bit during that part and that's just me calling warbis bad.

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

Like the commander helm, it is indeed inferior but by such an insignficant amount, it takes an entire 3 extra hits from the spear to kill the Possessed Varg. Technically worse, sure, neigh useless, not in the slightest.

I am going to stop testing damage with dummies, what's their point if they give wrong numbers.

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

I mean I get the domestication on becoming useless, by 30% more ride time seems useful even after fully taming it.

Mounting a tamed beef already lasts longer than a day, I really don't think you will get much use out of that skill.

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

I mean if your min maxxing, like you seem to be from how you constantly say how a piece of equipment are "useless" because they have slightly lower outputs then another which a specific armor combo active, it seems right up your alley. Snark aside, the songs seem to be more orientating towards using them in a team environment as while 5% is weak alone, it's suddenly alot more effective when you have like 4 people all having the buff.

I mean having 4 people on anything just makes whatever you are facing a joke.

Except for misery, that thing will still take like 8 mins to beat.

[Bird Up]

brightshade helm and commander be damned, enlightened crown all the way for wig. With that sanity gain from combat, it's a no brainer

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, BB Marioni said:

BEEFALO SKILLS vs SONG SKILLS
- they should have just picked one among these two. She should only have 2 branches on her tree: combat and songs/ beefalo. For songs they should have focused on improving the existing ones. For Beefalo, it seems they got confused on wether to pursue making her a rider or a beefalo fighter. It should just be one.
 

She is for rider beef.  It was confusing when they gave her +planar on beef, but it is not confusing now.  Her saddle is slow, but gives tankiness to the beef.  This is useful b/c no one likes to lose a beef if they dismount and it takes aggro.  Wig's saddle lets the beef stay alive longer in this situation while you clear anything away.  40% is quite tanky.  If you are skilled and are not concerned about losing your beef then don't use it.  It is not supposed to be better speed then gossamer, or better combat than war saddle.  It is in nature for Wig to provide defense, and this gives DEEF to her BEEF which I think is a unique niche it can fill.  Its 4th point so it is easy to drop if you do not want it (or craft and swap)

Wig definitely should jump OFF the beef to fight.  She is superior in every way on foot than riding a beef.  imo it would be foolish to have her get ornery.  Beef skill 3 lets her start a fight with 50% inspiration.  She can easily keep 1 song active always, and get another song quickly.  She can also easily mount after combat to keep 100 inspiration always.  This means she can res on CD for her spell just like Wanda as well as use other stingers where needed.

[BB Marioni]

42 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

She is for rider beef.  It was confusing when they gave her +planar on beef, but it is not confusing now.  Her saddle is slow, but gives tankiness to the beef.  This is useful b/c no one likes to lose a beef if they dismount and it takes aggro.  Wig's saddle lets the beef stay alive longer in this situation while you clear anything away.  40% is quite tanky.  If you are skilled and are not concerned about losing your beef then don't use it.  It is not supposed to be better speed then gossamer, or better combat than war saddle.  It is in nature for Wig to provide defense, and this gives DEEF to her BEEF which I think is a unique niche it can fill.  Its 4th point so it is easy to drop if you do not want it (or craft and swap)

Wig definitely should jump OFF the beef to fight.  She is superior in every way on foot than riding a beef.  imo it would be foolish to have her get ornery.  Beef skill 3 lets her start a fight with 50% inspiration.  She can easily keep 1 song active always, and get another song quickly.  She can also easily mount after combat to keep 100 inspiration always.  This means she can res on CD for her spell just like Wanda as well as use other stingers where needed.

Doesnt seem very useful for a rider as most players who would choose a rider beef would want to max the speed benefit of it. The current perks of the saddle seems more for face tanking enemies while mounted. normally on a rider beef, you would dismount before going near the enemy to keep the beef at a safe distance. IMHO, if they wanted to focus on her being a rider, the tame speed and time shouldve been in the same skill, then instead of the saddle, maybe give her a sprint mechanic while on a beef, then the other skill point could be something like a quick mount passive.

[Yuuko]

11 minutes ago, BB Marioni said:

Doesnt seem very useful for a rider as most players who would choose a rider beef would want to max the speed benefit of it. The current perks of the saddle seems more for face tanking enemies while mounted. normally on a rider beef, you would dismount before going near the enemy to keep the beef at a safe distance. IMHO, if they wanted to focus on her being a rider, the tame speed and time shouldve been in the same skill, then instead of the saddle, maybe give her a sprint mechanic while on a beef, then the other skill point could be something like a quick mount passive.

As I stated - the saddle is NOT for speed.

56 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

It is not supposed to be better speed then gossamer, or better combat than war saddle.  It is in nature for Wig to provide defense, and this gives DEEF to her BEEF which I think is a unique niche it can fill.  Its 4th point so it is easy to drop if you do not want it (or craft and swap)

It is for tankiness.  Beef can take damage whether you're on them or not.  If you want to park your beef a screen away from combat you can keep it safe, but if you wanna jump off your beef straight to fighting this gives your beef a good amount of tankiness if they get pulled into the fray with you.

Wig would want a rider beef.  She (or anyone b/c this craft can be shared) MAY use the saddle for tankiness on their beef.  Its the 4th point so its easy to skip if you don't want a tanky saddle.  imo quite convenient that it is completely optional for Wig's beef kit.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

The beefalo tree has to be the most random addition ever. I would much prefer a song tree.

[SSneaky]

4 hours ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

The beefalo tree has to be the most random addition ever. I would much prefer a song tree.

IMO the beefalo tree just needs MORE perks in it.

it's half baked.

[ECS.98]

I think i can give my own thoughts on the update despite not having tested the live version (as far as the patch notes show, there doesn't seem to be any difference between that and what we've seen from the beta, so hopefully what i say remains correct)

Rework Retrospective and Songs

First of all, i have to give credit where it's due: Wigfrid's rework was very underwhelming, and i saw in the skill tree update some hope that we would get it improved. And we did get some great changes! The buff to Fireproof Falsetto is very appreciated, especially as a base buff that's not dependent on skills. And we got the possibility to retain inspiration from riding a beefalo, which i think is a huge benefit, and it certainly improves the usage of most songs.

However, Startling Soliloquy and Rude Interlude still lack the usefulness they should have to justify their use, and i really hope we're gonna see a buff for them.

Startling Soliloquy: It just doesn't last long enough, 4 seconds is barely enough time to do anything, especially when the casting time already prevents you from using half the effect duration. Using this skill in a solo play is entirely useless, and even using it with a group of friends is just marginally useful. Even buffing it to 6 or 8 seconds would probably be enough (Heck Maxwell has an ability with the same effect and it lasts 15 seconds...)

Rude Interlude: The fact this skill doesn't work on bosses essentially removes any use it could ever have. When facing normal enemies, i can't find a reason to use this song when we have Startling Soliloquy. There's no reason to make mobs target me if i can make them target nobody. If this song was usable on bosses, it could be very useful as a way to take the blunt of the damage, especially now that the Battle Rond is a thing. Wigfrid has secured her place as the tanking character, and this song could have been a great aid in fulfiling her role if it just allowed her to easily draw bosses.

Elding Spear

I don't really mind damage numbers and min-maxing at all, so the Elding Spear sounds like a great investment for me by default. I think they did a great job with this spear.
Before getting the charged one, it doesn't sound worth it to use for normal combat, but the fact the dash ability doesn't use up any duration is massive! AoE effects are rare in DST and i'm glad we got one! And then the charged one is just great!

But i do agree that the charged spear should be allowed to be used by other players. As a Wigfrid main i live to give my friends better fighting gear, that is a huge part of my team play and it's honestly disappointing that i wouldn't be able to give them the full power of the weapon (I won't give them the uncharged spear since that's just a waste of materials). Wigfrid already has her base perks so her crafts are better used by herself (in fact, this is what gives Wigfrid an edge with the Battle Spear, as only she can achieve the 50 damage threshold while using it, making it way more efficient for her than most other characters). I personally don't really care about having unique crafts. If anything, the Battle Rond is a much more fitting unique craft to be used only by Wigfrid.

Battle Rond

And speaking of the Battle Rond, it would be much better without the on-equip cooldown. The way it is designed now is for it to be used as the main shield and main weapon during a fight, which is... ok, i guess? On the few scenarios where bosses attack slow enough that the parry can be an integral part of the fight? Otherwise we'd have to kite every other attack which kinda defeats the purpose of having the shield.

I was hoping we could have an engaging attack/defense cycle, as i don't think i would ever choose to have the shield as my main weapon over just actually having a main weapon. Kiting is already such an established part of the game's combat that in order to introduce a different mechanic like parrying, it needs to bring some advantage over kiting.
Switching to the Rond and activating its ability would require 3 inputs anyway, so it would already be more work than simply always having it equipped.

Beefalo Tree

As for the Beefalo tree, i think half of it is good, and half of it is pretty meh... But i don't know how that could be improved, so there's that.

The inspiration part is amazing! It's the single reason i will use the beefalo branch in the first place. 
The faster domestication is alright, it has its purpose during the taming process.

The longer ride time on the other hand... Once your beefalo is fully tamed, i don't think there will ever be a situation where you'll stay mounted for the full duration for this perk to actually have any use, especially since Wigfrid is Rider oriented, and whenever you fight anything you'd hop off the beefalo.
And then there's the battle saddle, which doesn't really seem to make much sense, at least for me. It's outclassed by every other saddle aside from the defense boost, and defense would only be useful if we're fighting, which is not the case when the tree is rider oriented. The fact it's the last skill point does make it easier to ignore (and it's what i'll do), but it feels underwhelming exactly for being the last skill point.

 

That's about all i can think about it, i don't have much of an opinion on the rest of the tree, most other things seem fine as they are for me (aside from the alignment skills, which sound underwhelming, but i'll most likely just ignore them anyway).
While i do have some negative opinions on some skills, i do think this tree is on the right track, and things did get improved a lot during the beta.

[goatt]

17 hours ago, CuteC said:

BEEFALO SKILLS

I really hoped beefalo skills would be more interesting.

I really wanted beefalo to inherit wig's character passives and equipment passives (herhaps partially). For example

1. hit heal, 2. passive damage reduction, 3. passive attack multiplier, 4. battle song passives, 5. equipped bramble husk passive, 6. equipped thulecite club summoning passive... etc.

In other words, just many different kinds of passives, herhaps partially inherited, from wig and equipments. So that beefalo has a special synergy with wigfrid and has a new array of exploitations opened up to wig mains, mechanic wise.

Sadly, beefalo don't even benefit from battle songs at all.

[Illumunaire]

Sounds like someone's just not a believer in Wigfrid's new stuff. Her kit is really just fine in my opinion. I personally have zero problem with any of the beefalo perks, arsenal perks, or her other miscellaneous ones. These perks all expanded on possible routes Wigfrid players could take, offered unique crafts that she could share with a team, and overall was very thematic for her character. 

I mean, how dope is it to be able to use a handful of uncharged Elding Spears to obliterate the Ancient Fuelweaver w/o weather pains or lazy explorers in first Winter? Her arsenal still has relevance even into late game even if you don't think so with economic solutions to defeating tanky bosses like Fuelweaver, Toadstool, and Dragonfly. Not to mention beefalo being a permanent inventory upgrade with the piggyback, super early game speed boost, and infinite duration battle songs; that is all acquired days earlier than other characters that use beefalo taming, and it doesn't slow down a Celestial Champion rush with consistent day 11 mooncaller's staffs.

The only thing that I think was done poorly was the lunar/shadow affinity crafts. The songs are really not worth it, although the regular 10% damage bonus from selecting the affinity will always be worth it. It's just like, why add a craft at all if it won't be unique? 5% extra damage, 10% extra defense vs opposite alignment is just too tiny and unoriginal, even for a team buff. It shouldn't have to be a stat buff, but why couldn't it be a utility like random attack dodges for shadow and random gestalt attacks for lunar?

[Dr.Webber]

They should of gave her triumphant spear skin and made the thing on the head of her triumphant skin it’s own triumphant  battle helm skin

[IAmAFurrz]

On 12/21/2023 at 1:12 PM, Frashaw27 said:

It actually doesn't, atleast against normal planar enemies, the damage was roughly the same.

Granted, the lunar plant hat did in fact absorb more damage, an entire singular point of damage. So yes, you are right that you should technically be using the brightshade helm as it is more effective at protecting you. However, the reduction loss between the two is so minimal I would hardly call it mauling. While you are right that the helm is a bit underwhelming, the armor works perfectly fine for late game use, meaning you aren't really losing anything when you do use it like this. It is indeed lesser, but the amount is so insignificant that it seems more like cherry picking for an argument for why the armor is bad.

Upgrades that only apply to Wigfrid, meaning that it does remain superior in terms of durability when worn by other players, which you seem so focused on. I will agree it's not enough to be the main selling point, but I think the materials are farmable enough to atleast make them better to use in prep instead of battle helms if your hoarding armor for a fight like the shadow pieces which gives you plenty of prep time to do such higher quality armor grinding.

For winter fights? I mean it isn't much but hell, I'll take the ability to stave off the cold a little while longer while also not having pants down because I have no armor. Even if it's not that impactful if your trying to min max insulation, the dual purpose is still appreciated and helpful.

And this is the reason why it's good. People like having renewable things, regardless of how it's gotten. Just look at dreadstone armor, people flipped from despising it to thinking it's some of the best armor in the game after it gained the ability to trade sanity for duribility. Also the regen isn't 1% every 10 seconds, it's more ~1% per. hit.

Before fighting a brightshade:

After fighting a brightshade:

After fighting a singular brightshade, it gained 16% durability back. I don't know about you, but that's pretty significant against a pretty trash mob. I have a feeling that the reason why you were getting trash numbers is because you were using below average stuff against fodder mobs, when that's unbeneficial as the skill says it takes from Wigfrid's natural healing to repair the helm, and the wiki page says that the amount of said healing increases as you use better weapons against better mobs. Sure, in a more practical sceanario, it's going to not go up so fast, but to discount it entirely is malarky in my opinion. The amount it repairs for not turning off my brain and fighting properly is significant, especially for areas with a lot of mini fights like the ruins that are easy to get hp, and thus duarbility, off of.

All in all, the helmet isn't useless. It may need a the two companion abilities to assist it, but that be disingenuous as the elding spear has the same issue.

So that her unique weapon isn't used by other players? Sure it's an outlier, but I don't see a reason why it's bad to have the unique weapon restricted to them so the player feels like they have some uniqueness compared to the rest of the team. I honestly don't see anything wrong with allowing Wigfrid to keep some her skill tree for herself. 

You don't. While people may **** on the planar defense system a lot, the vast majority of the character's aren't combat locked without one. There's also other planar weapons like the Shadow Reaper. There's also the fact that you don't NEED to open the rifts as soon as you defeat celestial champion. Your free to twiddle your thumbs on that for as long as you like while enjoying your free +20 damage boost.

It doesn't:

Unboosted Brightshade against Varg: 61

The Charged Elding Spear: 64

It only becomes more after putting on the Brightshade Helm, by an entire 5 points:

Like the commander helm, it is indeed inferior but by such an insignficant amount, it takes an entire 3 extra hits from the spear to kill the Possessed Varg. Technically worse, sure, neigh useless, not in the slightest. This isn't even mentioning the fact that it does electric damage meaning it will do more unless she has electric jelly one, which is a bit ingenuous of a point when comparing innate power by herself. I suspect that your using a bit of hyperbole in your post, but it's a bit disingenuous as it potrays the spear as trash when it really is ever so slightly less optimal against only planar mobs.

And as shown from my screenshot, you'd be more useful with the strat while using the elding spear, against both planar and normal enemies, because it deals more damage then an unboosted planar sword. Funny how things work out.

The spear is beyond fine, like I expressed during the beta, I would use the weapon both before and post rifts as it simply does keep place and gives access to more special abilities while the lunar plant sword gives no special abilities and less damage at the benefit of being able to instantly repair instead of over the course of 2 minutes killing spiders/moonstorm birds/shadow splmonkeys. Sure, there will be a point where the elding spear loses steam from progression of gear, but it doesn't need to be changed, it's fine as it is. It does it's job, and damn well at that.

Yeah, I can't disagree, the rond is a major stinker. While I won't say it's useless because you can get a cheeky better first hit every once in a while, it really needs the no cooldown on equip to be truly worth.

Can't comment as I never used stingers at all.

I mean I get the domestication on becoming useless, by 30% more ride time seems useful even after fully taming it. Sure, it would be over kill, but not useless.

I mean if your min maxxing, like you seem to be from how you constantly say how a piece of equipment are "useless" because they have slightly lower outputs then another which a specific armor combo active, it seems right up your alley. Snark aside, the songs seem to be more orientating towards using them in a team environment as while 5% is weak alone, it's suddenly alot more effective when you have like 4 people all having the buff. Plus there is always the innate benefits of alignment bonuses, so those are always good.

In retrospect, Wigfrid's skill tree is damn near perfect. The only I would change is give the cooldown stingers also lose their inspiration requirement and improve the commander's durability slightly, I'm not sure what you looking for, but out of all the skill trees we've gotten so far, this skill tree is the best for combining meaningful bonuses with unique ideas and equipment while not majorly tipping the scales in favor of her survival. Like her helms may last longer, but none of her skills are going to make her more powerful is she is played sloppily. This feels like how people were fighting to make the Wormwood tree better, but unlike the Wormwood tree which even now is a bit mediocore, Wigfrid's skill tree is genuinely good and meaningful to playing her I feel. If left as is, I would be satisfied.

Amazing analysist. I agree on most points after playing her for like 2/3s of the worlds im in. I love playing her so much.

Her near infinite sanity gain from fighting means the cc crown is active most of the time so the upgraded spear on her + crown can absolutely be better in long fights with minimal prep (also the spear having the unique ability to just phase through enemy attacks is cool, useful for dodging NmWp's, Sharkboy's, Deerclops' and Bearger's attacks, as well as useful for AFW's woven shadows if you do it early before spring, or getting out of bonecage)

Her shield with longer block ability is lovely on cc phase1/2 spin attacks as they are immediately shortened (phase 1 you dont need the longer cd, but the 2nd phase you do for a complete block and also speeding up the fight since youre positioned RIGHT next to cc after the spins) along with speeding up certain fights like moosegoose with her large circular hitbox unlike dc and beargers new cone hitboxes, and malbatross if you care about that boss lmao. Not an amazing weapon, but an amazing tool in the few places theyre applicable like her Bel Canto song.

For beefalo skills, the 3rd one is just for convenience, i like to keep Clear-minded on at all times for easy permanent light (i dont like turning storms on after cc dies)