Are content arcs not the way to go?

[Jakepeng99]

The last content arc was about the ocean and lunar content.  It lasted 4 years, and added the ocean and a bunch of lunar content. And, a farming update.

Though after it all, the ocean still feels unfinished, lacking life and only the major setpieces; salt, moonquay, waterlogged, lunar, crab king and pearl having any sort of interest for the players and these make up a very small amount of the ocean, since the swell and deep oceans have very little in them. Monkey raids have been left behind aswell, which needs some QOL.

Though now we are on a new content arc, and the ocean and other things seems to be put behind in favour of the next thing for who knows how many years. The caves are in a similar situations, though shadow riffs give hope.

I am not saying to Klei to drop their current content arc, it has actually been pretty great. But i am saying for future it might be better if klei were more freelance and updated things that felt like they needed updating- like the ocean, or to expand on new content they added similar to arcs.

[JustAFlower]

Content-quality updates (like the farm update, it was good) are the most needed for this game right now. Just like you said mister Merm.

[Cassielu]

If I were an ambitious designer leading a new update arc project and were asked to create something attractive for publicity every two or three months. And there was a problematic almost hopeless part of the game that also large probability I wasn't allowed to large-scale rework it, I wouldn't touch this thankless task either instead of creating content that I enjoy or good at more. 

I guess that's what we're going through right now.

[WenericMember]

Tbh the ocean is less lacking in content as much as its lacking setpieces. IMO.

Even just reusing existing setpieces as islands would go a long way to fixing people's perception of the ocean.

[Jakepeng99]

20 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Tbh the ocean is less lacking in content as much as its lacking setpieces. IMO.

Even just reusing existing setpieces as islands would go a long way to fixing people's perception of the ocean.

The only mobs in the ocean excluding normal fish have a rare chance to spawn. They need to add things like ballphins and sea otters.

[Sanitar]

I probably sound like a pessimist, but I don't believe that developers will be able to make the ocean good.

That's why I need 4 Waterlogged biomes or salt biomes that are no different from each other? You can 't even build in them , unlike the islands from SW , which differ little from each other , too .Why do I need all these devices that make life easier in the ocean if I haven't been in the ocean for more than 3 days? 

The ocean needs more islands. Approximately 7 pieces of islands are needed to make the ocean alive. The ocean does not need any biomes like Waterlogged, salt. The ocean needs islands

 

[Jakepeng99]

2 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

I probably sound like a pessimist, but I don't believe that developers will be able to make the ocean good.

That's why I need 4 Waterlogged biomes or salt biomes that are no different from each other? You can 't even build in them , unlike the islands from SW , which differ little from each other , too .Why do I need all these devices that make life easier in the ocean if I haven't been in the ocean for more than 3 days? 

The ocean needs more islands. Approximately 7 pieces of islands are needed to make the ocean alive. The ocean does not need any biomes like Waterlogged, salt. The ocean needs islands

 

Yeah, they have not been targeting the right areas. What they add to the ocean often covers 2% of it.

[Szczuku]

RoT lasted 3 years and the reason there was still little to nothing in the ocean after it concluded is cuz like 70% of the updates were character reworks, QoL, as well as, seasonal events like Cawnival and YotX.

If the devs were to start releasing updates once every 3-4 months maybe then we'd see some cohesion. Cuz right now everything feels more or less like it's duck-taped together.

The game kindly asking if you'd like to activate rifts, lunar rifts bulldozing through the natural environment while Klei advertises Alter's ability to mutate, BS beelining straight to your builds/farms. All just things to add to the 'dst stuff that needs fixing'-list that the devs looks through once a year

You just have to start asking yourself what is a finished product and what is a 'temporary' solution. So far Wagstaff asking for a shard was supposed to be temporary untill we 'see a bigger picture'. Now, after 3 from beyond updates, we have Charlie asking for dreadstone with full animations, character quotes and what-not in place, only temporarily, right? We wait for lunar hail to start damaging mobs once Klei figures out how to make them smart enough to hide from hail while also still running away/attacking players.

Is this how dst is supposed to be developed? Drop an update beta, realise that the community really doesn't like something and you can't fix it in time for the arbitrary 'montly updates' quota, realease the update with a band-aid, take from 1 to n months to implement a fix.

[Jakepeng99]

4 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

All just things to add to the 'dst stuff that needs fixing'-list that the devs looks through once a year

Yeah. They need more quality of life updates focused on this. The current updates are cool though touching up on old things, like pirate raids (which are broken enough that i have to leave the game immediatly to despawn them) is much more needed.

[Rhovious Aran]

When it comes to the ocean, I do think more islands would help. But imo the bigger problem is that the ocean and the regular landmass are just so disjointed, they might as well be two seperate games. And well, I think it was designed that way intentionally. As in "noo, new players, and players who love DST don't have to interact with the new evil content if they dont want to") You have to actively seek it out. 

I kinda think that philosophy is wrong. Did anyone scream "oh no, not my vanilla DS World getting ruined by the introduction of, Bee Queen, Klaus, Shadowpieces & Fuelweaver" during a new reign? I think if we don't open ourselves up to the idea of the world evolving a bit away from what it was 10 years ago. None of the empty content is ever gonna feel more alive. Not the continent, nor the ocean, nor the caves.

Shipwrecked is more about the islands. But the way the DST Ocean, boats and the content in the ocean is the designed it's more like the movie "waterworld" than about islands. 

I've said this before and maybe I am wrong but I think what could really help make the ocean feel a bit more alive and accessible is by splitting up the regular continent a bit. I dont mean turn it into seperate islands that you have to sail to. But all those little "rivers" that seperate the different biomes, should be 2-3x as wide. Just so you can somewhat comfortable sail or row your boat through it.

And instead of being connected via actual land the biomes could be connected via "shallow water". Deep enough to sail over, and shallow enough to still walk through with your character. Maybe it would look a bit disjointed, I don't think we'd need these shallow water seperations between every single biome. But it would definitely add some flavour to the world if let's imagine, there is a river cutting off the swamp, the decidious and a desert. Just as an example. This would also solve the problem of always having to sail around the entire continent if you wanna go anywhere on the ocean, which I find devastatingly annoying. Instead you could just sail from the center of the island into any direction.

And then they could bring the ocean content a bit more "into" the world, some salt formations in the rivers. The shallow water itself would make for a beautiful mini biome with salt, wobsters or some other small stuff in there. maybe the Gnwarwhales or even Sharks show up occasionally (It's not like you couldn't easily avoid them in the shallow water by going back to land). The in my opinion very interesting and beautiful seaweeds could be in the rivers as well. Even the Waterlogged biome squashed into a "river" could make for a super interesting amazonian river feel. And well, while I am here making wishes and daydreaming about updates that are likely sadly never to come, I'd also love a Lily Pad Biome, that you can actually walk and build on *sigh* haha
How about a "lake" biome

*daydreaming off*

 

[Yuuko]

I can't say yes or no to this.  Content arcs have worked so far, and they aren't really failing now...  but I do feel something is off.

We just came off of a multi-year commitment to refresh the characters.  I feel things were going well, but obviously they would need to re-visit some characters another time.  Rather than keeping things low commit and touching up as needed they went overboard on Wicker / Max and then landed Wilson right into a new hard-commit to basically loop through refreshes all over again...

I think they've done a good job weaving QOL stuff into arcs but much of that was put into character refreshes and we're just starting that cycle all over again...  so idk, expect the game to feel even more taped together for a few years.

The new arc doesn't help being such a hard shift away from what the game has been up to this point.  I know there is a market for people who think DST stands for Dark Souls Terraria but this is so very different from the puzzle like "there is no real answer, figure it out for yourself" style of survival that Don't Starve has been since inception...  I almost wonder if we're going to start getting tutorial style pop-ups auto-pausing the game to explain whatever convoluted nons they've added next...

[Uedo]

I'm usually really charitable in my opinion of the development, but like, every time I hear 'It'll make sense later' or 'this is temporary and it'll be different and totally be cool', i'm just taking the stance to not believe it. 

The dragons are coming guys, when they get here it'll be amazing - I swear they're coming, just you wait!

[Valase]

4 hours ago, Rhovious Aran said:

When it comes to the ocean, I do think more islands would help. But imo the bigger problem is that the ocean and the regular landmass are just so disjointed, they might as well be two seperate games. And well, I think it was designed that way intentionally. As in "noo, new players, and players who love DST don't have to interact with the new evil content if they dont want to") You have to actively seek it out. 

I kinda think that philosophy is wrong. Did anyone scream "oh no, not my vanilla DS World getting ruined by the introduction of, Bee Queen, Klaus, Shadowpieces & Fuelweaver" during a new reign? I think if we don't open ourselves up to the idea of the world evolving a bit away from what it was 10 years ago. None of the empty content is ever gonna feel more alive. Not the continent, nor the ocean, nor the caves.
 

All of those thing mentioned on the second paragraph are things that you actively seek it out.

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

You just have to start asking yourself what is a finished product and what is a 'temporary' solution. So far Wagstaff asking for a shard was supposed to be temporary untill we 'see a bigger picture'. Now, after 3 from beyond updates, we have Charlie asking for dreadstone with full animations, character quotes and what-not in place, only temporarily, right? We wait for lunar hail to start damaging mobs once Klei figures out how to make them smart enough to hide from hail while also still running away/attacking players.

Usually temporary solutions become part of the product if they are good. I think that Charlie/Wagstaff asking for the pieces is good, because the player may or may not want to interact with said content. (even though I don't see a reason for not interacting).

4 hours ago, Sanitar said:

I probably sound like a pessimist, but I don't believe that developers will be able to make the ocean good.

That's why I need 4 Waterlogged biomes or salt biomes that are no different from each other? You can 't even build in them , unlike the islands from SW , which differ little from each other , too .Why do I need all these devices that make life easier in the ocean if I haven't been in the ocean for more than 3 days? 

The ocean needs more islands. Approximately 7 pieces of islands are needed to make the ocean alive. The ocean does not need any biomes like Waterlogged, salt. The ocean needs islands

New islands would be very welcome additions, but currently there is the moon-quay problem, because they need to add an island and completely new resources, otherwise the player will not go there at all, and if they remove content from the land, to add to the isles, people would complain.

Also, there is the deal that, sailing in SW is just fancy walking, while in DST is way more work intensive, so if you add too much islands(by them being smaller or something) people will start to see them as the rock stacks on the ocean (annoying obstacles).

[Jakepeng99]

4 minutes ago, Valase said:

, because they need to add an island and completely new resources

Or a bunch of similar islands with the same new resources.

[Valase]

6 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Or a bunch of similar islands with the same new resources.

already answered. (I'm all for new Islands, but I'm reasoning that we should not just shoehorn things on the game).

10 minutes ago, Valase said:

so if you add too much islands(by them being smaller or something) people will start to see them as the rock stacks on the ocean (annoying obstacles).

[landromat]

main ocean problem is over complicated boats. Make sea traveling easy and ocean would instantly become better place

[arubaro]

13 minutes ago, landromat said:

main ocean problem is over complicated boats. Make sea traveling easy and ocean would instantly become better place

how is complicated to use the steer or an oar?

[landromat]

Just now, arubaro said:

how is complicated to use the steer or an oar?

ok. not complicated. Clunky

[Szczuku]

41 minutes ago, landromat said:

main ocean problem is over complicated boats. Make sea traveling easy and ocean would instantly become better place

I think the main problem (aside from general lack of stuff to do once you've visited the keypoints once) is the fact that the ocean itself discourages sailing.

Why bother sailing the entire ocean when you can just build a new boat at the closest edge to the point of interest and beeline straight to it?

The worldgen discourages sailing, simple as. We need a worldgen overhaul that puts the mainland in the corner and fits the ocean into the rest of the playable area.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

I think the main problem (aside from general lack of stuff to do once you've visited the keypoints once) is the fact that the ocean itself discourages sailing.

Why bother sailing the entire ocean when you can just build a new boat at the closest edge to the point of interest and beeline straight to it?

The worldgen discourages sailing, simple as. We need a worldgen overhaul that puts the mainland in the corner and fits the ocean into the rest of the playable area.

I talked about this before and i completly agree. The shipwrecked fog would help, but not enough. I saw someone with the idea of shallpw water which you can both walk in and sail in, it would allow you to sail properly while not forcing people to clog rivers with docks in order to easily get across.

[Sanitar]

2 hours ago, Valase said:

Also, there is the deal that, sailing in SW is just fancy walking, while in DST is way more work intensive, so if you add too much islands(by them being smaller or something) people will start to see them as the rock stacks on the ocean (annoying obstacles).

An unremarkable island will be many times better than sea flowers, salt biomes, waterlogged. All that I have listed are those annoying obstacles. On the islands, at least it will be possible to build and decorate a megabase than empty zones in which nothing can be done, but only to get a couple of useful resources

 

[arubaro]

5 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

waterlogged

waterlogged biome is one of the best biomes in the entire franchise in many ways

[dois raios]

And again I have to say, klei cant make everyone happy, new ocean content is always welcome, but I dont think klei will be able to work in caves content, ruins, ocean, rifts, skill trees and QoL all at once XD

[Antynomity]

56 minutes ago, dois raios said:

And again I have to say, klei cant make everyone happy, new ocean content is always welcome, but I dont think klei will be able to work in caves content, ruins, ocean, rifts, skill trees and QoL all at once XD

I'm sorry to you and any devs/klei employees reading this but they got cornered in this situation of something always needing fixing due to poor decisions on their ends.

[Antynomity]

9 hours ago, Rhovious Aran said:

And instead of being connected via actual land the biomes could be connected via "shallow water". Deep enough to sail over, and shallow enough to still walk through with your character. Maybe it would look a bit disjointed, I don't think we'd need these shallow water seperations between every single biome. But it would definitely add some flavour to the world if let's imagine, there is a river cutting off the swamp, the decidious and a desert. Just as an example. This would also solve the problem of always having to sail around the entire continent if you wanna go anywhere on the ocean, which I find devastatingly annoying. Instead you could just sail from the center of the island into any direction.
 

I guess my idea for a tile that's walkable and sailable is more common than I thought!