Metheus and Lobster queen bosses.

[BalkanCockroach]

I think fighting Metheus as the final shadow and lobster queen as the final lunar boss would be cool (or they could be very late game). And no neither herald or the fuelweaver are either of them.

Now i know there are skins for the tragic torch and the ancient cane so introducing them as items doesn't make much sense.

But here's how it could work. After you beat the shadow side of the progression route, Charlie rewards you with two ancient thulecite masks. They can be equipped like a little drama costumes. When you finish the act on a new moon Metheus mask gets imbued with fuel. And when you finish the act on a full moon lobster queen mask gets imbued with moon energy.

They can both have thrones to summon them one in the ruins and one in the archives.

Metheuses body is made of fuel except the mask and maybe some other stuff made of thulecite.

Lobster queen is powered with the same stuff as sentrypedes (like the spark ark) and is made of thulecite too.

They both attack with their respective items (cane and the torch).

This is just my rough idea, but i think it'd be a nice way of ingame storytelling and a cool boss concept.

Edit: I changed Cyclum to lobster queen cause people don't wanna understand that im using the fanon name.

[grm9]

Was it stated somewhere that cyclum is something? I thought it was only a name of the comic/comics/puzzles with maxwell and wilson building the DST portal and there was no confirmation that this name belongs to someone or something, metheus is at least mentioned in-game by FW. And maybe metheus is the torch one, since there's a message about metheus in the video where charlie makes a lunar torch iirc and it would make sense with prometheus bringing fire and metheus having a torch. On the other hand FW talks about metheus which wasn't related to FW getting killed, since FW was killed by the torch bug so idk.

[Retepeter]

cyclum is fused with charlie metheus is fuelweaver

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

metheus is fuelweaver

metheus, if you mean the cane bug, killed FW tho? He just did everything the survivors did to access shadow rifts apparently, just the ones he brought were weaker, fissures, maybe summoning the eye the second time strenghtened them and opened rifts.

[Retepeter]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

metheus, if you mean the cane bug, killed FW tho?

fuelweaver is a "reanimated skeleon" he calls cyclum by name, and is the one in control of shadow magic

metheus is also a guy and the devs said fuelweaver is a "he" but i just cant take things outside the game as canon so take that with a grain of salt

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Retepeter said:

fuelweaver is a "reanimated skeleon" he calls cyclum by name, and is the one in control of shadow magic

FW says "Metheus..." when turning off atrium, cyclum is not mentioned in the entire game, open steamapps -> common -> DST -> data -> databundles -> scripts -> languages -> strings.pot and search for "cyclum", there's nothing.

[Dextops]

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

FW says "Metheus..." when turning off atrium, cyclum is not mentioned in the entire game, open steamapps -> common -> DST -> data -> databundles -> scripts -> languages -> strings.pot and search for "cyclum", there's nothing.

Cyclum is an entirely fan name and comes from the cyclum puzzle, it makes basically no sense as a name or in relation to the ancients in the grand scheme of things

[BalkanCockroach]

24 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

cyclum is fused with charlie metheus is fuelweaver

There's no confirmation to either of those. FW could be Metheus but we literally see him make it. But it could be true afterall he says "my city".

[Hornete]

Cyclums not a name! Cyclum just means, well, 'cycle'! The Cyclum puzzle just hints at the constant cycle of things. Maxwell's thrown into the world to repeat the cycle of surviving for himself. The cycle of changing puppet rulers on the Throne and etc. Cyclical themes are in this game!

The Fuelweaver is pretty heavily hinted at to be the once ancient king. He refers to the ruins as his city, his world. The king is the one to have reanimated the skeleton in the Murals, most likely having accursed himself into a lich like form. Metheus is very likely a different being, one that I believe is the eye in the portal.

As for the gameplay element of things... I cant say I'd want a proper "fight" against these supposed beings. I've always liked how DS handled things with Adventure Mode where you don't really win, you just get trapped yourself and repeat the cycle. I've always enjoyed the aspect of the Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion fights where you the player dont actually beat them, we arent Gods! We need another being to intervene for the final blow! Love that kind of stuff.

[BalkanCockroach]

5 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Cyclums not a name! Cyclum just means, well, 'cycle'! The Cyclum puzzle just hints at the constant cycle of things. Maxwell's thrown into the world to repeat the cycle of surviving for himself.

The Fuelweaver is pretty heavily hinted at to be the once ancient king. He refers to the ruins as his city, his world. The king is the one to have reanimated the skeleton in the Murals, most likely having accursed himself into a lich like form. Metheus is very likely a different being, one that I believe is the eye in the portal.

As for the gameplay element of things... I cant say I'd want a proper "fight" against these supposed beings. I've always liked how DS handled things with Adventure Mode where you don't really win, you just get trapped yourself and repeat the cycle. I've always enjoyed the aspect of the Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion fights where you the player dont actually beat them, we arent Gods! We need another being to intervene for the final blow! Love that kind of stuff.

Wes is a god tho. I used cyclum as a placeholder name instead of lobster queen... Metheus could be the eye orrr it could be the king as many speculate. We know FW isn't Metheus cause he has a dialogue that says "Metheus..." who says their own name like that?

[mkemal23]

51 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

 And no neither herald or the fuelweaver are either of them.

Metheus is fused with Charlie and Fuelweaver is reborn as an ancient beast. That's why reanimated skeleton gets more aggressive when you build him closer to atrium.

51 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

This is just my rough idea, but i think it'd be a nice way of ingame storytelling and a cool boss concept.

I have nothing against the idea but I think klei should focus his lore first. It's been years and we still don't know a lot of questions about Fuelweaver. Like, Where is the cane, Is it connected to the Codex Umbra? How did our survivors know about him and how did they started the fight? Did he just cursed his soul to lock the Gateway or something?

I really hope klei would give us a Ancient king costume to play it in the stage. Other than that, I think resurrecting Fuelwaver once more would take away from his prestige..

 

 

[grm9]

11 minutes ago, Hornete said:

The Fuelweaver is pretty heavily hinted at to be the once ancient king. He refers to the ruins as his city, his world. The king is the one to have reanimated the skeleton in the Murals, most likely having accursed himself into a lich like form.

There are still more murals after FW got revived without FW and with the king in his normal form, so that wouldn't make much sense and it'd be odd for the king to just move into FW's body after he dies or something, there's nothing even hinting at such rituals being possible and the final mural doesn't include FW either.

11 minutes ago, Hornete said:

We need another being to intervene for the final blow!

Speaking of this, maybe they could reuse forge from the gateway realms, since pugna wanted to "return to the hub and destroy the Throne.".

5 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

he has a dialogue that says "Metheus..." who says their own name like that?

Maybe some unfinished thought like how they called him metheus for bringing the fuel, or devs couldn't find a better place to put the name into for people to find the puzzles.

[Retepeter]

I agree with Hornete but even if Cyclum is a community name I think we can go along with it for the sake of simplicity instead of writhing out "the other ancient ruler that isnt metheus"

but charlie is very likely fused with cyclum considering they both use white (lunar?) magic, both being ladies, and the fact that she kills fuelweaver, likely being very reasonable anger for some guy that destroyed your whole civilisation because people liked his style of magic better 

[Hornete]

 

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

There are still more murals after FW got revived without FW and with the king in his normal form, so that wouldn't make much sense and it'd be odd for the king to just move into FW's body after he dies or something, there's nothing even hinting at such rituals being possible and the final mural doesn't include FW either.

It's not particularly hinted at but I have always liked the idea of the Ancient King having done the initial ritual on the skeleton as a revival method, only to have ended up being accursed to it and his heart being locked up and gated (This is something I would LOVE to see explored further, who/what gated the heart in the first place? Hehe!)

[Retepeter]

56 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Metheus could be the eye orrr it could be the king as many speculate. We know FW isn't Metheus cause he has a dialogue that says "Metheus..." who says their own name like that?

imagine you wake up after dying to an eldrich abomination who killed your whole race, and are reborn in a giant skeletal body, reanimated by a heart made of shadows, next to the gateway where said abomination appeared out of a portal

i think the sheer amount of shock may just lead you to remember your name and say it out loud afer being dead for who knows how many tousand years

 

btw i think that the skeleton in the murals was just a guardian and we put metheus' consciousness (think about it as a meat effigy)

[BalkanCockroach]

1 hour ago, Retepeter said:

imagine you wake up after dying to an eldrich abomination who killed your whole race, and are reborn in a giant skeletal body, reanimated by a heart made of shadows, next to the gateway where said abomination appeared out of a portal

i think the sheer amount of shock may just lead you to remember your name and say it out loud afer being dead for who knows how many tousand years

 

btw i think that the skeleton in the murals was just a guardian and we put metheus' consciousness (think about it as a meat effigy)

Or maybe his anger caused him to say the name of the lobster king, you know the one that is responsible for the entire civilizations downfall. That makes more sense to me.

[maradyne]

...it kind of amazes me how many different interpretations people have come up with regarding all of this.

They're all wrong since they don't match with my interpretation, but interesting nonetheless.

[BalkanCockroach]

Just now, maradyne said:

...it kind of amazes me how many different interpretations people have come up with regarding all of this.

They're all wrong since they don't match with my interpretation, but interesting nonetheless.

This perfectly sums up what everyone thinks about the lore on the forums.

[Szczuku]

Cyclum. Is. Not. A. Thing!

It's just a name for that one comic, it means 'cycle' in latin.

Metheus. Is. Most. Likely. The. Name. Of. The. Ancient. Torchbearer. (who is most likely merged with Charlie, her shadow part)

It's heavily hinted by Fuelweaver (who is the Ancient Staffwielder) and Axiom Visus secret message.

Metheus was also the name of the one 'comic' (or rather the murals website) and the dst community with their abysmal creativity decided that surely cyclum must also be an in-game-universe name then

[BalkanCockroach]

2 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Cyclum. Is. Not. A. Thing!

It's just a name for that one comic, it means 'cycle' in latin.

Metheus. Is. Most. Likely. The. Name. Of. The. Ancient. Torchbearer. (who is most likely merged with Charlie, her shadow part)

It's heavily hinted by Fuelweaver (who is the Ancient Staffwielder) and Axiom Visus secret message.

Metheus was also the name of the one 'comic' (or rather the murals website) and the dst community with their abysmal creativity decided that surely cyclum must also be an in-game-universe name then

We get it shatap.

6 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

sus

Very sus indeed.

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

who is most likely merged with Charlie, her shadow part

why would she summon the eye from the ancient gateway if the torch bug was against it and witnessed the civilization dying after the eye got summoned 

[Szczuku]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

why would she summon the eye from the ancient gateway if the torch bug was against it and witnessed the civilization dying after the eye got summoned 

Look at the terrorbeaks, resting horror, the shadow reaper; nightmare fuel corrupts, those are all (most likely) ancients.

Metheus most likely got corrupted by the shadows and, I assume, They would probably want to have a pawn that knows lunar magic well, since Alter is Their counterpart, so they didn't let her just wander the Constant like the rest of the shadow-fied ancients do

Not to mention that by corrupting Charlie with corrupted Metheus They also got a physical butt that can sit on the throne and do their bidding, as opposed to Maxwell.

[maradyne]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

why would she summon the eye from the ancient gateway if the torch bug was against it and witnessed the civilization dying after the eye got summoned 

Stage play lore. Seems like Charlie needs some high-tier power of both alignments to 'repay' her savior (resurrecting it I assume).

 

Edit: My memory wasn't far off, at least.

Quote

Queen

• "It is as you said, mirror."
• "I've become so much more than I ever dreamed..."
• "but why do you remain broken?"

Mirror

• "Alas,"
• "I was shattered long before I met your King."
• "Even with his power,"
• "I cannot yet be restored."

Queen

• "I made you a promise, mirror,"
• "and I will see it through."
• "I will find the power to fix you,"
• "and repay you for all you've given me."

 

[grm9]

14 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Look at the terrorbeaks, resting horror, the shadow reaper; nightmare fuel corrupts, those are all (most likely) ancients.

That wouldn't make much sense unless some of them were already existing shadows and ancients turned into some more, since you can see maxwell summoning terrorbeaks in the maxwell puzzles, but his quotes about AG and AG's horn imply that he knew AG before the ancients discovered nightmare fuel.

[WenericMember]

Tbh calling it lobster queen just makes even less sense. Now I just thought it was Metheus and a bee queen equivalent.

Aside from that, I don't think the arc should end with a traditional boss fight tbh.  The powers at play here are so far beyond all other content canon-wise that a boss alone wouldn't do "shadow and lunar entities invading from another realm" justice.

Instead I think a rift overflow event would be a better way to end it, making it so the entire shard is overrun by constant shadow & lunar presences till a sidequest is done. All surface entities are replaced by lunar counterparts, while underground is replaced by shadow. If done right it could be an adventure mode-esque finale.

Howeverr, if they do insist on going with a final boss, the shaodw and lunar entities need to interact. Currently, the survivors are the only link between the two battles, which really shouldn't be the case.