hot takes Your Dont Starve Together Hot Takes

[Anis5240]

On 6/21/2024 at 3:52 PM, Notecja said:

Klei again rushed update, that was supposed to have few months to work on.

Real. I'd rather have them take 6 months to do updates, at the consideration of those features in said update ARE ACTUALLY POLISHED.

[DegenerateFurry]

The community's view of "cheese" mechanics is completely wrong and it's shutting out a potential brilliant side this game could have: playstyles that revolve around extreme amounts of game knowledge and investing time and effort up-front so you don't have to put in as much time and effort later and can focus yourself on other things you like more.

What do I mean? I'll give an example that's currently in DST: as Woodie, you can spend a bunch of time grinding living logs and nightmare fuel, plant a bunch of trees down by Toadstool's cap, wait for them to grow, turn them into treeguards, and then make Misery Toadstool break a tree so the treeguards kill it for you. Then, as a Weremoose, you massacre the treeguards and use the logs they drop to build the next batch of idols if you want to kill Misery Toadstool again.
This is similar to setting up an automated farm in Minecraft. The same can be said of building a vast quantity of statues to farm the Shadow Pieces using the boat method, making statue farms that abuse pathfinding, or using that new pillar+ranged weapon/catapult method someone found for Fuelweaver. It takes a bunch of resource investment, but it lets you do something time-consuming or difficult in an alternative way, and sometimes you can get lots of resources by doing it the clever way rather than the manual way. 

For some reason, though, this game's community looks at stuff like that and calls it "cheese", then asks for it to be patched. If you ask the people saying that why, they'll tell you that if it's left in, everyone would do it - but we know that's false, because, to use Minecraft as an example again, people who make automated redstone farms are a small portion of the playerbase. The simple fact is that most players would rather play the game normally than do a bunch of grindy stuff to allow themselves to automate or skip something. 

I think people need to look at it more like the way people in Minecraft look at this sort of thing. It's an entirely optional alternate playstyle that requires a lot of knowledge of obscure mechanics. It's commonplace in Minecraft to make a mob farm that abuses mob pathfinding, but you see people in DST's community who genuinely think Klei should "patch" statues obstructing mobs but not being pathed around. I don't get why they feel their playstyle should be the only one allowed to exist.

[arubaro]

Game knowledge = whatching youtube to copy effortless methods

[DegenerateFurry]

14 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Game knowledge = whatching youtube to copy effortless methods

No video told me that it was possible to glitch a voltgoat onto a boat using walls and fence gates. I figured that out by seeing other players glitch Pearl onto one on a Klei server I was playing in, then realizing the same principle could be applied elsewhere.

No video taught me that I'd need to row at a very slow pace with the anchor deployed if I wanted the herd to relocate with the goat. I found that out through experimentation and trial and error. 

Yet here I am, with a boat that has a voltgoat herd spawner on it in my main world, docked in my knobbly tree base for convenient and regular harvesting. The boat also keeps them nicely contained - they cannot flee from me, so I can harvest them at any time of day without a ranged weapon to aggro them.

You know what they say about what happens when you assume, don't you?

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

No video told me that it was possible to glitch a voltgoat onto a boat using walls and fence gates. I figured that out by seeing other players glitch Pearl onto one on a Klei server I was playing in, then realizing the same principle could be applied elsewhere.

No video taught me that I'd need to row at a very slow pace with the anchor deployed if I wanted the herd to relocate with the goat. I found that out through experimentation and trial and error. 

Yet here I am, with a boat that has a voltgoat herd spawner on it in my main world, docked in my knobbly tree base for convenient and regular harvesting. The boat also keeps them nicely contained - they cannot flee from me, so I can harvest them at any time of day without a ranged weapon to aggro them.

You know what they say about what happens when you assume, don't you?

Do you really think that i dont know that people discover stuff by their own? I know youtube videos dont appear magically 

What im pointing is the reason of why klei fix some of these exploits. Is hard to implemented stuff if little timy, after realizing they cant beat FW by holding F, goes to youtube and finds that they can beat it by simply placing a hondious and 2 lureplants. I dont care about this stuff being fixed because i dont like using them but is unrealistic to expect it staying forever and neither i think that people looking for a "insta win button" on youtube have a "creativity and a playstyle" when they are simply surrending and prefer to stay afk while the challenge is beaten by itself.

Same way the klaus sack cheese was removed. It made no sense to keep such thing in a game 

The same way would be hard to make people interact with stuff like ickers or the giant worm or adding content like Winona's bridge if they keeped void walking

And maybe, hopefully, they will improve how to move herds and changing that might create problems with the method you mentioned

The same way i dont think stuff like AI reworks to prevent pathfinding methods to prevent players exploiting them is a good thing, if as said, it doesnt bring anything worth.  I see how can be fun to experiment with the limits of the game, i was just critical about what i explained

[HellHeater]

44 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The community's view of "cheese" mechanics is completely wrong and it's shutting out a potential brilliant side this game could have: playstyles that revolve around extreme amounts of game knowledge and investing time and effort up-front so you don't have to put in as much time and effort later and can focus yourself on other things you like more.

What do I mean? I'll give an example that's currently in DST: as Woodie, you can spend a bunch of time grinding living logs and nightmare fuel, plant a bunch of trees down by Toadstool's cap, wait for them to grow, turn them into treeguards, and then make Misery Toadstool break a tree so the treeguards kill it for you. Then, as a Weremoose, you massacre the treeguards and use the logs they drop to build the next batch of idols if you want to kill Misery Toadstool again.
This is similar to setting up an automated farm in Minecraft. The same can be said of building a vast quantity of statues to farm the Shadow Pieces using the boat method, making statue farms that abuse pathfinding, or using that new pillar+ranged weapon/catapult method someone found for Fuelweaver. It takes a bunch of resource investment, but it lets you do something time-consuming or difficult in an alternative way, and sometimes you can get lots of resources by doing it the clever way rather than the manual way. 

For some reason, though, this game's community looks at stuff like that and calls it "cheese", then asks for it to be patched. If you ask the people saying that why, they'll tell you that if it's left in, everyone would do it - but we know that's false, because, to use Minecraft as an example again, people who make automated redstone farms are a small portion of the playerbase. The simple fact is that most players would rather play the game normally than do a bunch of grindy stuff to allow themselves to automate or skip something. 

I think people need to look at it more like the way people in Minecraft look at this sort of thing. It's an entirely optional alternate playstyle that requires a lot of knowledge of obscure mechanics. It's commonplace in Minecraft to make a mob farm that abuses mob pathfinding, but you see people in DST's community who genuinely think Klei should "patch" statues obstructing mobs but not being pathed around. I don't get why they feel their playstyle should be the only one allowed to exist.

I actually think you should make a thread about this but I won't be responsible for the torches and pitchforks thats coming over to your house.

[DegenerateFurry]

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Do you really think that i dont know that people discover stuff by their own? I know youtube videos dont appear magically 

Yeah, but you did reply to me talking about how people like to explore the game's mechanics in-depth and find creative ways to use them to their benefit by saying "hurr durr YouTube videos aren't game knowledge" (when, actually, watching a YouTube video is doing research, so it basically is getting game knowledge even if it isn't as direct as your own experimentation), as if to imply that was how most people who do the sort of stuff I'm talking about learn how to do it. You can't just do a cheap dig like that and act like you didn't do it when I call you out on it.

[arubaro]

31 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, but you did reply to me talking about how people like to explore the game's mechanics in-depth and find creative ways to use them to their benefit by saying "hurr durr YouTube videos aren't game knowledge" (when, actually, watching a YouTube video is doing research, so it basically is getting game knowledge even if it isn't as direct as your own experimentation), as if to imply that was how most people who do the sort of stuff I'm talking about learn how to do it. You can't just do a cheap dig like that and act like you didn't do it when I call you out on it.

Tbf i wanted but forgot to mention when i talked about not fixing AI of mobs for the sake of making them evade exploits. I see how people can have fun designing farms and automation but that doesn't mean stuff like FW lureplant cheese or getting 100 hearts without interacting with content should be expected to stay

[cropo]

Dark Swords are overrated, the sanity drain takes its toll and you will end up wasting far more durability and time fighting off shadows or eating sanity foods than the time saved killing the boss faster with better damage. 

Insanity does not need to have buffed threats; even if the terrorbeak and crawler are easy to kill on their own they are still a resource-cost and time-investment that forces you to properly kite them and kill. Even if it isn't difficult, it's still objectively using your time and resources to deal with and that's enough of a punishment.

Willow and Wilson's light-radius skills are good and in Willow's case saves a precious inventory slot by not having to carry a lantern which offsets the burden of carrying an extra slot of embers. It's a worthwhile skill to have.

 

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Game knowledge = whatching youtube to copy effortless methods

Don't Starve is a game driven by community discovery, there is nothing wrong with using something seen on a video and it does not make it any less creative if a player is just following a tutorial on how to do it.

[Bumber64]

STOP DOING CHEESE

YEARS OF FIGHTING MOBS yet NO CONSTANT-WORLD USE FOUND for killing things without a WEAPON.

Wanted to farm dairy anyway for a laugh? We had an item for that: It was called "VOLT GOAT MILK"

[Anis5240]

3 hours ago, cropo said:

Wilson's light-radius skills are good

No it isn't. Three damn points just for either brightness or durability? No damn thanks, please. Simply combine those two feature and cut down those tiers. God knows Wilson could have better skills.

[Edible Coal]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

STOP DOING CHEESE

YEARS OF FIGHTING MOBS yet NO CONSTANT-WORLD USE FOUND for killing things without a WEAPON.

Wanted to farm dairy anyway for a laugh? We had an item for that: It was called "VOLT GOAT MILK"

i dont think you can replace butter with milk

[NPCMaxwell]

7 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

Real. I'd rather have them take 6 months to do updates, at the consideration of those features in said update ARE ACTUALLY POLISHED.

THIS!!! It would also be less 'cruel' to beginner modders like me who feel pressured by regulary updates that their own already kind of still bug-struggling mods they don't want to miss playing with anymore need to adjusted to while still being in WIP mode.

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

i dont think you can replace butter with milk

DST butter is unrelated to cheese, though.

[Mike23Ua]

Oh man am I mad… and this thread for Hot Takes is the perfect place to vent some of that pent up frustration.

Okay so the word “Uncompromising” gets thrown around ALOT on these forums but does anyone even actually know what that means? Better yet.. Are they confusing it with a community created mod that went by the same name? And what is your Idea of Uncompromising and what does that mean to You.

I feel like “Uncompromising” in my opinion of the word should mean that the game punishes your mistakes, or that the game intentionally unfairly piles the odds against you & one or two small things won’t be a problem, but let freezing to death, starving of hunger, Deerclops, your low sanity and sanity creatures, and A Varglet hound wave all pile up on one another and your in for a bad night..

But Uncompromising should NOT mean make the game Dark Souls level difficulty with annoying bosses every single content update, and an artificial difficulty that makes the game more Frustrating then it is enjoyable to play.

It really angers me quite a lot that each time Klei adds new content into the game that from my point of view I’m seeing cool new content my less than skilled friends COULD be enjoying, if that content was able to be finely tuned to a difficulty acceptable and comfortable to them.

For far too long it’s felt like the Uncompromising Dev team has signed on at Klei to do content updates and in turn “make the game frustrating & more difficult cause #Uncompromising!” Has felt like the agenda.

But maybe I’m just really bad at the game, or maybe DST has changed so much that it’s not even my type of game anymore.

Content that’s meant to be early game has been more difficult than end game stuff and content that is end game has oddly felt like challenges that would only be a challenge if you were just starting out.

Idk man I just hate how people throw around the term “uncompromising” thinking the game needs to be super duper hardcore or whatever.

And perhaps the worst offender is that despite their being what is it I think 5 different difficulty mode choices- there really isn’t enough differences between “survival” and “relaxed” to make the content more enjoyable.

TL:DR- I don’t think anyone who is playing on “Relaxed Mode” still should have to fight 10,000hp raid bosses. In that regard I think that Maybe the game should be just a little less “uncompromising” 

*Rant over*

[SilverSpoon]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

I TORTARY AGREE WITH YOU.

Every time I see the word "uNcoMpROmIsiNg" on this forum, I get piss off that I want to tear my brain out. "Uncompromising" doesn't mean things like Thwomp falling from off-screen and kill you like a 7-year-old's Mario Maker, or destroying items and buildings that many players have spent hours working together to collect. That is just "Mean".

Honestly, I think Big Worm Boi is the zenith of that. It is my tragedy that this mentality has infected the development team of Klei as well.

In the first place, DST about "Mean" Wildfires, they layering numerous "compromisings" such as sandstorms, Tree Trunks, Willow's Hungry Lighter, and Ice Crystaleyezer,, so this game isn't already "Uncompromising". Player who use the word "Uncompromising" for DST is clown now.

[NPCMaxwell]

8 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Oh man am I mad… and this thread for Hot Takes is the perfect place to vent some of that pent up frustration.

Okay so the word “Uncompromising” gets thrown around ALOT on these forums but does anyone even actually know what that means? Better yet.. Are they confusing it with a community created mod that went by the same name? And what is your Idea of Uncompromising and what does that mean to You.

I feel like “Uncompromising” in my opinion of the word should mean that the game punishes your mistakes, or that the game intentionally unfairly piles the odds against you & one or two small things won’t be a problem, but let freezing to death, starving of hunger, Deerclops, your low sanity and sanity creatures, and A Varglet hound wave all pile up on one another and your in for a bad night..

But Uncompromising should NOT mean make the game Dark Souls level difficulty with annoying bosses every single content update, and an artificial difficulty that makes the game more Frustrating then it is enjoyable to play.

It really angers me quite a lot that each time Klei adds new content into the game that from my point of view I’m seeing cool new content my less than skilled friends COULD be enjoying, if that content was able to be finely tuned to a difficulty acceptable and comfortable to them.

For far too long it’s felt like the Uncompromising Dev team has signed on at Klei to do content updates and in turn “make the game frustrating & more difficult cause #Uncompromising!” Has felt like the agenda.

But maybe I’m just really bad at the game, or maybe DST has changed so much that it’s not even my type of game anymore.

Content that’s meant to be early game has been more difficult than end game stuff and content that is end game has oddly felt like challenges that would only be a challenge if you were just starting out.

Idk man I just hate how people throw around the term “uncompromising” thinking the game needs to be super duper hardcore or whatever.

And perhaps the worst offender is that despite their being what is it I think 5 different difficulty mode choices- there really isn’t enough differences between “survival” and “relaxed” to make the content more enjoyable.

TL:DR- I don’t think anyone who is playing on “Relaxed Mode” still should have to fight 10,000hp raid bosses. In that regard I think that Maybe the game should be just a little less “uncompromising” 

*Rant over*

I prefer any SMALL painful annoying or deadly punishments that regularly or per chance occure WAY more.

And honestly so far the ONLY "bosslike" fighting mobs i enjoy engaging with are the original giants / high HP creatures from ROG (and DS) but with their old values (granted i am a single player).

Funny enough big Wormy is an exception. I really like this guy. (may be due to the eating mechanic and because i love depth worms in general)

[Nikki Darks]

This game should have a "hard mode" config where each mob has their stats increased by a %, or all food/items have their stats decreased by a % just so people would stop whining about the game being too easy, because quite frankly it's gotten old. 

[ChintzyGnat]

2 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

This game should have a "hard mode" config where each mob has their stats increased by a %, or all food/items have their stats decreased by a % just so people would stop whining about the game being too easy, because quite frankly it's gotten old. 

There's no way to make the game harder through combat unless it requires combat and another task. Example being fuelweaver and inv mangment. 

Do Stat increases just makes the game more tedious and grindy.

[gaymime]

18 minutes ago, ChintzyGnat said:

There's no way to make the game harder through combat unless it requires combat and another task. Example being fuelweaver and inv mangment. 

Do Stat increases just makes the game more tedious and grindy.

it does but this would work for a percentage of people all the same and if it could be ratcheted up it could also be ratcheted down for people who are newer to the game and need the grace given by reducing the total number of hits to completion

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

This game should have a "hard mode" config where each mob has their stats increased by a %, or all food/items have their stats decreased by a % just so people would stop whining about the game being too easy, because quite frankly it's gotten old. 

I mean look I’m no game designer, I make no claims to be a game designer.. but I can tell you when I see bad game design, and I can give you an example of that.

Klei see’s “Lunar Rifts” as being “End Game Content” only these Rifts don’t actually do enough to feel like end game content… it doesn’t shake up the meta hard enough…

For example: There’s an Island out at Sea called Lunar Island, this island has its own mutated variants of spiders who gain AoE attacks, but yet… they’re only ever found on this Island, and that leaves the rest of the game to play the same way it always has.

Instead of Lunar Hail Whipping the easy Health and Hunger you can get from just punching and eating butterflies from being a thing you can do, it remains mostly unchanged..

Spider Queens still if left alone will revert back to tier 1 spider nests, instead of being these mutated lunar variants..

I ain’t a game designer, but I know this ain’t how you go about designing a “End Game Mode”

The biggest issue I seem to see that’s pretty common around here is that Klei can’t take any huge risks, they once had lunar hail damaging the games mobs in the world and players cried that their grass gecko farms were being konked into extinction.

Meanwhile… Im over here actually WANTING them whipped into complete extinction so new mobs can spawn in its place or something along those lines of “hey this is New Game + Mode… the rules will be changing!”

[Primalflower]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

For example: There’s an Island out at Sea called Lunar Island, this island has its own mutated variants of spiders who gain AoE attacks

The Lunar Island is not endgame content and beyond being where your start them it is not related to lunar rifts mechanically

[NoodlemanNed]

3.4 lifesteal is still a lot of healing

[HellHeater]

3.4 lifesteal is underwhelming.

[arubaro]

19 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

3.4 lifesteal is underwhelming.

ye, idk how klei didt buff wigfird, the poor lady has such useless perks...