A Wolfgang nerf suggestion (i know it won't happen)

[Sacco]

I know i know, Klei doesn't want to nerf any character at all, they even said it, but anyway i want to suggest some nerfs to Wolfgang to make him a more interesting character overall (disadvantages can make characters more interesting to play and not just more boring)

First of all i'd like to see him losing sanity overtime if he doesn't have a lot of sanity.

Why?

Wolfgang is scared of almost everything, so when he starts seeing weird shadowy things he might get scared no?

A second nerf would be the mightyness loss on hit (1 mightyness every 5 damage), sounds familiar? Yes.

I really liked that downside, it made the playstyle of Wolfgang a bit different from just tanking and pressing F and destroying everything because you have double damage, but now you can't heavy tank and it would increase the skill gap of the character (Wolfgang is just a free pick win afterall)

But i don't want this disadvantage to be detrimental so just make the armors reduce the mightyness lost on hit by a fair amount.

This mightyness reduction would stack with two armors (technically three, there's the shield of terror), to make the player more interested in using two armors pieces in combat.

EXAMPLE:

Night armor, marble suit -70% mightyness lost.

thulecite armors, dreadstone armors, void and brightshade armors -60% mightyness lost and so on.

What do you think?

I am a fun of the mightyness lost on hit, i think it would fit with Wolfgang, making him funnier to play.

that's just my opinion, feel free to write in the comments!

Bye!

[Gashzer]

I think wolfgang is fine without a nerf. Yes double damage and his mining skill are pretty good, he lacks a noticable downside. However his perk still requires you to be good at combat and kiting. If you cant kite, you will die the same as wolfgang or wilson.

Unlike characters like wurt/webber/winona who can build armies/catapults then sit back with no combat skill needed at all and absolutely annihilate bosses. 

Wolfgang is better for experienced players that have a good grasp on combat. Other characters are still better for inexperienced players who would rather grind out the likes of a merm guard army and steamroll bosses.

[Sacco]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I think wolfgang is fine without a nerf. Yes double damage and his mining skill are pretty good, he lacks a noticable downside. However his perk still requires you to be good at combat and kiting. If you cant kite, you will die the same as wolfgang or wilson.

Unlike characters like wurt/webber/winona who can build armies/catapults then sit back with no combat skill needed at all and absolutely annihilate bosses. 

Wolfgang is better for experienced players that have a good grasp on combat. Other characters are still better for inexperienced players who would rather grind out the likes of a merm guard army and steamroll bosses.

The thing is that wurt, Webber and winona still have to do something to get all that damage, Wolfgang just needs to become mighty and he can easily take out a lot of bosses with just a marble armor and an ham Bat (he can tank a lot of fights too)

 

[Dragonboooorn]

no 

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Sacco said:

The thing is that wurt, Webber and winona still have to do something to get all that damage, Wolfgang just needs to become mighty and he can easily take out a lot of bosses with just a marble armor and an ham Bat (he can tank a lot of fights too)

 

Wolfgang is good for a low-skill tanking playstyle. But once you are decent at kiting you might as well play a different character. As a semi-decent player myself, i really like wolfgang but i will always main Walter over him because i do not need the 2x damage for boss fights cause i can kite fine. Walter having a easy access beefalo and more inventory space benefits me more in the day to day running about and looting than wolfgang.

Wolfgang is really good at what he does but lacks alot of benefits/QoL perks outside of boss fights that the other characters bring to the table. Hence hes abit balanced that way.

 

[Dragonboooorn]

12 minutes ago, Sacco said:

The thing is that wurt, Webber and winona still have to do something to get all that damage, Wolfgang just needs to become mighty and he can easily take out a lot of bosses with just a marble armor and an ham Bat (he can tank a lot of fights too)

 

Yet you still need to know how to fight certain boss, you cant just straight up tank every DST bosses.

With minions you can sit and watch your army destroying everything in their path. The cost of making armies are justified

15 minutes ago, Sacco said:

(he can tank a lot of fights too)

 

Like who? treeguards, deerclops and moose/goose? I hardly can call them bosses, to me they are just big mobs with big HP pool. Almost every character can straight up tank em, Wolfgang just makes it faster due to his increased damage

[Sacco]

19 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Yet you still need to know how to fight certain boss, you cant just straight up tank every DST bosses.

With minions you can sit and watch your army destroying everything in their path. The cost of making armies are justified

Like who? treeguards, deerclops and moose/goose? I hardly can call them bosses, to me they are just big mobs with big HP pool. Almost every character can straight up tank em, Wolfgang just makes it faster due to his increased damage

Wolfgang makes fights safer and faster, he doesn't get any downside from marble suit too.

Minions have the problem against AOE damage and you need a lot of them to deal good damage.

 

20 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wolfgang is good for a low-skill tanking playstyle. But once you are decent at kiting you might as well play a different character. As a semi-decent player myself, i really like wolfgang but i will always main Walter over him because i do not need the 2x damage for boss fights cause i can kite fine. Walter having a easy access beefalo and more inventory space benefits me more in the day to day running about and looting than wolfgang.

Wolfgang is really good at what he does but lacks alot of benefits/QoL perks outside of boss fights that the other characters bring to the table. Hence hes abit balanced that way.

 

Wolfgang is a perfect gatherer, and he also doesn't get any speed reduction from piggyback, which means he has a backpack with 4 more slots (still not as good as Walter/Maxwell)

Wolfgang rows faster than other characters, it's not that big but it's still something.

[Gashzer]

11 minutes ago, Sacco said:

Wolfgang is a perfect gatherer, and he also doesn't get any speed reduction from piggyback, which means he has a backpack with 4 more slots (still not as good as Walter/Maxwell)

Wolfgang rows faster than other characters, it's not that big but it's still something.

True, the piggyback buff is especially great but right now we have wolfgang in his prime finished state. Lets see what the other character skill trees bring to the table. Woodie is already a better and more versatile character in his prime state than wolfgang in my opinion. Moose is an absolute juggernaut. Beaver can start the nightmare werepig fight early or mine the late game ores. Goose can explore the sea with ease. Combined they are alot more useful than old wolfgang.

Edit: Wormwood i havnt tried him out yet with his new skill tree. Wormwoods utility before was fantastic tho so even pre skill tree wormwood was argubly better for teamplay already.

[Sacco]

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

True, the piggyback buff is especially great but right now we have wolfgang in his prime finished state. Lets see what the other character skill trees bring to the table. Woodie is already a better and more versatile character in his prime state than wolfgang in my opinion. Moose is an absolute juggernaut. Beaver can start the nightmare werepig fight early or mine the late game ores. Goose can explore the sea with ease. Combined they are alot more useful than old wolfgang.

Edit: Wormwood i havnt tried him out yet with his new skill tree. Wormwoods utility before was fantastic tho so even pre skill tree wormwood was argubly better for teamplay already.

But at the same time Wolfgang is straight up better than weremoose in combat, yes the moose has the charge but that's it, and the werebeaver can't collect things on the ground while mining/chopping.

The weregoose is very very useful for exploring as you said.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

I know i know, Klei doesn't want to nerf any character at all, they even said it, but anyway i want to suggest some nerfs to Wolfgang to make him a more interesting character overall (disadvantages can make characters more interesting to play and not just more boring)

First of all i'd like to see him losing sanity overtime if he doesn't have a lot of sanity.

Why?

Wolfgang is scared of almost everything, so when he starts seeing weird shadowy things he might get scared no?

A second nerf would be the mightyness loss on hit (1 mightyness every 5 damage), sounds familiar? Yes.

I really liked that downside, it made the playstyle of Wolfgang a bit different from just tanking and pressing F and destroying everything because you have double damage, but now you can't heavy tank and it would increase the skill gap of the character (Wolfgang is just a free pick win afterall)

But i don't want this disadvantage to be detrimental so just make the armors reduce the mightyness lost on hit by a fair amount.

This mightyness reduction would stack with two armors (technically three, there's the shield of terror), to make the player more interested in using two armors pieces in combat.

EXAMPLE:

Night armor, marble suit -70% mightyness lost.

thulecite armors, dreadstone armors, void and brightshade armors -60% mightyness lost and so on.

What do you think?

I am a fun of the mightyness lost on hit, i think it would fit with Wolfgang, making him funnier to play.

that's just my opinion, feel free to write in the comments!

Bye!

I missed that downside, it got removed before because it was bad, but now wolfgang gains mightiness when fighting so it is good. Wolfgang is boring since he just makes combat straight up easier with the same playstyle as a Wilson in combat, but again, easier. I love the new dumbells since they have use and are good with aim and skill, though they are mostly utility for crowd control so you don't experiance this side of Wolfgang as much as you should. I agree with this post and it's points, but they should expand upon dumbells more maybe.

49 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wolfgang is really good at what he does but lacks alot of benefits/QoL perks outside of boss fights that the other characters bring to the table. Hence hes abit balanced that way.

You are kinda right, but using half the resources in all fights at 2x the speed is really good.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Sacco said:

I know i know, Klei doesn't want to nerf any character at all, they even said it, but anyway i want to suggest some nerfs to Wolfgang to make him a more interesting character overall (disadvantages can make characters more interesting to play and not just more boring)

First of all i'd like to see him losing sanity overtime if he doesn't have a lot of sanity.

Why?

Wolfgang is scared of almost everything, so when he starts seeing weird shadowy things he might get scared no?

A second nerf would be the mightyness loss on hit (1 mightyness every 5 damage), sounds familiar? Yes.

I really liked that downside, it made the playstyle of Wolfgang a bit different from just tanking and pressing F and destroying everything because you have double damage, but now you can't heavy tank and it would increase the skill gap of the character (Wolfgang is just a free pick win afterall)

But i don't want this disadvantage to be detrimental so just make the armors reduce the mightyness lost on hit by a fair amount.

This mightyness reduction would stack with two armors (technically three, there's the shield of terror), to make the player more interested in using two armors pieces in combat.

EXAMPLE:

Night armor, marble suit -70% mightyness lost.

thulecite armors, dreadstone armors, void and brightshade armors -60% mightyness lost and so on.

What do you think?

I am a fun of the mightyness lost on hit, i think it would fit with Wolfgang, making him funnier to play.

that's just my opinion, feel free to write in the comments!

Bye!

My thoughts on the matter is if Wolfgang is deserving of a nerf then a fair bit of the cast is as well as they don't really work for their perks either especially Wendy or Wigfrid.

[Jandri]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

My thoughts on the matter is if Wolfgang is deserving of a nerf then a fair bit of the cast is as well as they don't really work for their perks either especially Wendy or Wigfrid.

They could get one too though.

As well as Wicker

[lenship2]

3 hours ago, Sacco said:

wolfgang nerf

yea, right now my issue with wolfgang (especially with the skill tree) is that he literally outshines every character in terms of sheer single dps, without having to do much at all for it...

for comparison: wendy has to get abigail's potions and an ornery beefalo to get her highest solo dps, wurt has to spend years setting up a merm empire to be effective, maxwell has to get fuelweaver equipment, warly has to get volt goat horns and rain, wanda has to be at only 38 health, woodie has to sacrifice inventory, webber has to get a metric ton of nurse and spitter spiders, winona has to farm rocks and gems to be good, etc. 

wolfgang just has to afk for 5 seconds and gets rewarded with objectively the highest solo dps compared to all the other characters

at the same time though, i think wolfgang is designed to be an 'easy character', especially with the speculated skill tree design philosophy, so i don't think he should necessarily be changed either

[Frashaw27]

3 hours ago, Sacco said:

I am a fun of the mightyness lost on hit, i think it would fit with Wolfgang, making him funnier to play.

I played with Wolfgang with this downside, it was hell. More advanced fights/fights with tons of minions like Bee Queen become near impossible if you don't use panflute weapon because you burn so much mightiness mid fight, meaning you have to make frequent stops to just reup on mightiness. People complain that it's boring to lift dumbbells whenever you need to do something, but it severely worse to do that mid fight, several times, while alone. While it would make people get the mightiness limit increases, it would still feel bad and unfun. This one of those times were the solution does work (debatably, as I'll speak about in a minute) but the method of doing so is just unfun to people. Further more, I don't see how this downside really applies to his upsides. None of his perks really involve tanking besides the marble suit speed reduction negation, but that also means it's more of a kiting buff then helping him tank. While he may deal more damage in the period, his marble armor would crumble the same as a Wilson's would against the same enemy. I tihnk the majority of the talk about him gaining a downside is a result of him being misunderstood as while double damage is potent, there's nothing that really makes him stand out. I find him the "medium" combat character (with Wigfrid being the "beginner" combat character) as his downsides help you in combat, but they don't provide any unique advantage like how Wanda's Clocks or Maxwell's Codex Umbra would be. You still have to use the same amount of skill dodging Ancient Guardian's charges or managing all of the Fuelweaver fight's parts, etc. While some may call it boring, I find it refreshing to have some simple characters like him and Woodie (relatively) admist the complex characters like Maxwell and Wormwood. I just don't think he needs one, he's found his niche and there's nothing wrong with letting him have that.

[Antynomity]

26 minutes ago, Jandri said:

They could get one too though.

As well as Wicker

Wickerbottom does not deserve a nerf unless Maxwell also gets one, there's no reason to ever play as her after you have a bookcase station and multiple of the books you use.

Wolfgang does not deserve any nerfs of that matter, the only one that'd be reasonable is for him to use double weapon durability when mighty as to not make him even more efficient than other characters at fighting outside of the time in the fight, but no changes will happen as the wolfgang skill tree was very boring and klei doesn't care about character balance anymore, outside of small tweaks we don't even need changes, even though they would be very, VERY, appreciated, I just want content, no more character updates, too bad we're getting skill trees.

[_zwb]

Wolfgang skilltree's design is weird. The entire planar damage mechanic is targeting high damage per hit specifically, since the more regular damage you deal, the more it gets blocked, plus planar damage is not affected by damage multipliers, so it nerfs Wanda& Wolfgang in a sense. Which is alright since they're somewhat "op" and it's good to see something they're not good at.

Then Klei released Wolfgang skill tree that makes Wolfgang deal more planar damage, going against the previous design of planar damage&defense. I don't understand why this is implemented, doesn't they want to stop high damage multiplier being too powerful?

[Jandri]

31 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

Wickerbottom does not deserve a nerf unless Maxwell also gets one, there's no reason to ever play as her after you have a bookcase station and multiple of the books you use.

That's right, though, this issue could be solved by a nerf to Wicker's books (half solved) or to their effect when read by Maxwell.

Maxwell himself can't be too bad without the Wicker books, that would make him a very bad starting character.

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, Jandri said:

That's right, though, this issue could be solved by a nerf to Wicker's books (half solved) or to their effect when read by Maxwell.

Maxwell himself can't be too bad without the Wicker books, that would make him a very bad starting character.

Maxwell shouldn't be able to use her books period he's already near full power walking out of spawn with a minor downside.

[Mike23Ua]

Why does everyone want so many nerfs in this game? Lol.. Yes Wolfgang is Crazy good, and I mean CRAZY GOOD.

But.. he does have downsides too, downsides that are likely not going to effect you based on your skill level, but.. let my newbie friends play Wolfgang and they’ll end stunned during Wolfgang’s size changes between puny/normal/mighty, this might not seem like much… but let a group of hounds be chasing you and your Mightiness drains you into a unavoidable animation.

You’re practically a free hit from enemy mobs at that point.

People need to read & more clearly understand why Klei even added an “Odds of Survival”

there is an intended skill gap on each character- so if your finding Wolfgang boring & too easy, there’s a very high chance you should find someone more challenging to you to play as because he’s no longer within your skill level- You’ve out grown him.

But… Just because you have out grown him doesn’t mean you should ask for/want nerfs on him that will only make the people who still struggle playing as him right now have an even worse time.

And I’ll end this post by stating that if characters are going to get more powerful with new skills & skill trees Klei needs to also update the rest of the game world with new mobs, weather seasons & challenges to challenge them.

[Dragonboooorn]

Come to think of it, almost all of the survivors are crazy good after their reworks AND they still will get their skill trees eventually, so stop calling Wolfgang unfairly OP and say he should be nerfed to the ground.

You know, I played Woodie recently, and I literally killed Bee Quenn with nothing but moose idol and my trusty Wortox as a healer on day 3. I did gave him few wooden helmets and a cane tho. 

Just check this video. 

 

[Cheggf]

why are you nerfing wolf instead of max

[Dragonboooorn]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

why are you nerfing wolf instead of max

because when a combat themed character is good at combat －thats unfair and unbalanced

[Sacco]

27 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

why are you nerfing wolf instead of max

I am not talking about a question of the balance of the game, i am talking about fun. Disadvantages can make characters more interesting, and i think wolfgang (and wickerbottom too) has the least interesting downside.

I actually don't care about balancing every single character perfectly, i just care about fun, and a character with 0 downsides is not fun at all.

50 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why does everyone want so many nerfs in this game? Lol.. Yes Wolfgang is Crazy good, and I mean CRAZY GOOD.

But.. he does have downsides too, downsides that are likely not going to effect you based on your skill level, but.. let my newbie friends play Wolfgang and they’ll end stunned during Wolfgang’s size changes between puny/normal/mighty, this might not seem like much… but let a group of hounds be chasing you and your Mightiness drains you into a unavoidable animation.

You’re practically a free hit from enemy mobs at that point.

People need to read & more clearly understand why Klei even added an “Odds of Survival”

there is an intended skill gap on each character- so if your finding Wolfgang boring & too easy, there’s a very high chance you should find someone more challenging to you to play as because he’s no longer within your skill level- You’ve out grown him.

But… Just because you have out grown him doesn’t mean you should ask for/want nerfs on him that will only make the people who still struggle playing as him right now have an even worse time.

And I’ll end this post by stating that if characters are going to get more powerful with new skills & skill trees Klei needs to also update the rest of the game world with new mobs, weather seasons & challenges to challenge them.

I know i know, but i dont find a character with almost 0 downsides fun at all, we can say the same about wickerbottom and maybe wx.

I like playing characters not just only for their abilities but also for their downsides, because they make the experience with them more interesting and challenging.

I actually don't care about the balance of the game, i care about fun, and a charater with 0 downsides is not fun at all.

[Cheggf]

18 minutes ago, Sacco said:

I am not talking about a question of the balance of the game, i am talking about fun. Disadvantages can make characters more interesting, and i think wolfgang (and wickerbottom too) has the least interesting downside.

I actually don't care about balancing every single character perfectly, i just care about fun, and a character with 0 downsides is not fun at all.

Wolfgang has some of the most impactful downsides in the game. He loses 25% more sanity than everyone else (including the passive drain from dusk/night/caves), needs to use at least 1 inventory slot (and time & resources) lugging a dumbbell around and has transitional animations for going up & down tiers. If you're being chased by a bunch of shadow splumonkeys, you don't have time to gain might, and downranking could easily mean being stunlocked to death. Upranking from hitting an enemy could mean getting hit, then during that stagger you downrank and get hit again, where you can then get hit once more during your uprank.

What's Maxwell's downside, he can intentionally commit suicide on a depths worm if he has no armor? What's Wendy's, she fights shadows slightly slower? What's Willows, she's boring? What's Wilson's, or Wickerbottom's, or WX's, or Woodie's, or Wigfrid's, or Webber's, or Winona's?

Wolfgang should be one of the last to get nerfs in the downside sense and middle of the pack to get nerfs in the power sense. He's very average with very harsh downsides compared to the rest of the roster. I agree his downsides should be more pronounced, but there's way more characters with way less impactful downsides than he has right now.

If Wolfgang needs any changes they should be to his skill tree. He literally has 3 nodes that aren't just "Make number bigger".

[Sacco]

12 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wolfgang has some of the most impactful downsides in the game. He loses 25% more sanity than everyone else (including the passive drain from dusk/night/caves), needs to use at least 1 inventory slot (and time & resources) lugging a dumbbell around and has transitional animations for going up & down tiers. If you're being chased by a bunch of shadow splumonkeys, you don't have time to gain might, and downranking could easily mean being stunlocked to death. Upranking from hitting an enemy could mean getting hit, then during that stagger you downrank and get hit again, where you can then get hit once more during your uprank.

What's Maxwell's downside, he can intentionally commit suicide on a depths worm if he has no armor? What's Wendy's, she fights shadows slightly slower? What's Willows, she's boring? What's Wilson's, or Wickerbottom's, or WX's, or Woodie's, or Wigfrid's, or Webber's, or Winona's?

Wolfgang should be one of the last to get nerfs in the downside sense and middle of the pack to get nerfs in the power sense. He's very average with very harsh downsides compared to the rest of the roster. I agree his downsides should be more pronounced, but there's way more characters with way less impactful downsides than he has right now.

If Wolfgang needs any changes they should be to his skill tree. He literally has 3 nodes that aren't just "Make number bigger".

That "downside" can be almost removed if there is a player near him or a follower.

Even if he becomes crazy he can Just kill shadow creatures easier than other characters, because he deals 2x damage.

I don't think his downside is too impactful.