Possible bug: Power Transformers draw 3.33 W when disabled.

[Zarquan]

One thing I like to do is run multiple aquatuners with different settings on a 2 kW wire.  I do this by putting each transformer on its own transformer controlled by a smart battery on the output end.  The smart batteries also disable other transformers to give some aquatuners priority.

However, when I did this in my new colony, it kept overloading my conductive wire at 2006.7 W.

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In the second picture, the transformer is "disabled by automation," but is drawing 3.33 W.

I fixed the problem in my base using power shutoffs instead of automation on the transformers, but I'm wondering if this is a known bug.

[wachunga]

Are you sure it is the disabled transformers that are drawing that 3.33W? How many do you have on the 2kW backbone? Could it be some other transformer somewhere sneakily keeping "full" batteries topped off? That 3.33W is equivalent to the power runoff of one jumbo battery or 5 smart batteries. Although in my brief testing it was displayed as 3.34W or 3.32W respectively. You did say you fixed it by switching to shutoffs but maybe that's a coincidence.

 

I do like the idea of feeding multiple 2kW (peak load, average is less of course) lines off of one 2kW backbone by using transformers. Much better then that "batteries aren't consumers" shutoff switching nonsense.

[Zarquan]

3 hours ago, wachunga said:

Are you sure it is the disabled transformers that are drawing that 3.33W? How many do you have on the 2kW backbone? Could it be some other transformer somewhere sneakily keeping "full" batteries topped off? That 3.33W is equivalent to the power runoff of one jumbo battery or 5 smart batteries. Although in my brief testing it was displayed as 3.34W or 3.32W respectively. You did say you fixed it by switching to shutoffs but maybe that's a coincidence.

I am sure.  If you look at the transformer energy report on the second image, there are only 4 consumers on this grid, which are the 4 transformers I have.  It is reporting that the transformer currently selected (which is disabled by automation) is pulling 3.33 W.  There is another transformer that is also disabled and pulling 3.33 W.

Also, I use the same automation on power shutoffs on the inputs to the transformers and it works fine now.

3 hours ago, wachunga said:

I do like the idea of feeding multiple 2kW (peak load, average is less of course) lines off of one 2kW backbone by using transformers. Much better then that "batteries aren't consumers" shutoff switching nonsense.

That always bugged me too.  I've been handling my power like this for ages.  I always set up my first metal refinery/steam turbine/aquatuner system using this idea.

[psusi]

Show the wire overlay.

 

[wachunga]

18 hours ago, Zarquan said:

I am sure.

That's what I figured but still had to ask. The runoff of a disabled transformer is the same as a jumbo battery or 3.33W. I guess you found a way to charge a disabled transformer that is leaking power. If you can recreate the situation, take a look at the power overlay and see if the transformer is losing power or staying full. If it stays full, something is definitely wonky then.

 

Was the shutoff bug ever fixed? You could power your 2kW backbone from two small transformers in parallel. Shouldn't ever go above 2kW that way and you could avoid the bug if it still exists. It would mean not being able to put batteries on the backbone though. Or if you wanted multiple power sources on the backbone, like sometimes running turbines, pull off the backbone with two transformers and make that your load sharing line. It's funny how a lot of the engineering one does in ONI isn't to solve game challenges but to get around bugs.

[Zarquan]

3 minutes ago, wachunga said:

Was the shutoff bug ever fixed? You could power your 2kW backbone with two small transformers in parallel. Shouldn't ever go above 2kW that way and you could avoid the bug if it still exists. It would mean not being able to put batteries on the backbone though.

The problem is I have some power generation on the backbone side and a battery because I'm not always drawing power.  I suppose I could feed the generators on to the backbone by having a generator circuit, a backbone circuit, and a set of consumer circuits, but that would be annoying because my generators are steam turbines over various vents. 

What is/was the shutoff bug? 

[wachunga]

13 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

What is/was the shutoff bug? 

Shutoffs would get stuck in a weird state where they were closed or opened but power wasn't flowing or not flowing like it was supposed to. I think it had something to do with the game saving on a particular tick where the animation was out of sync with the power logic. Or something like that, I never used shutoffs and didn't experience it myself. I want to say @nakomaruhad an automation system that detected when they got stuck and would reset everything, but it has been a long time and I'm likely misremembering.

While you were replying, I edited the post regarding having to play games with multiple circuits. Not an ideal solution.

[JRup]

Both types of transformers show load when disabled by automation, indeed...

I've had my run-ins with this one for some time already:

My best guess is that when you disable a transformer it's somehow coded to have a load that simulates a trickle discharge for the transformer's stored power over the course of a cycle but somehow got mixed with whatever wires are connected to it. At this point it's speculation on my part as I don't know how that is actually coded.

 

7 hours ago, wachunga said:

Was the shutoff bug ever fixed?

It's still there, I can confirm.

7 hours ago, wachunga said:

I want to say @nakomaruhad an automation system that detected when they got stuck and would reset everything, but it has been a long time and I'm likely misremembering.

No such thing as misremembering for you, it seems. This is a nice read on battery flippers and has a bit of info on the power shutoff bug, but you already summed up how it happens:

 

[Zarquan]

I decided to make a bug report on this issue.  It is annoying and (as far as I can tell) negates the main benefit of having automation on a transformer.

 

On 8/14/2023 at 6:45 AM, psusi said:

Show the wire overlay.

 

Sorry, I missed this.  I would include the wire overlay, but it is pretty complicated over a wide area.  I felt that it would be better to show the energy overlay in the window to the right of the second picture.