Idea for New Weremoose

[KhannShield]

So, we all have been discussing the problems with Woodie and his new nerf for a few hours and I had an idea that I think is worth discussing...

In another post Chev_bug commented that the Weremoose mastery could give us the ability to craft a more expensive idol which is an enhanced version of the moose, or that maybe we could feed the idol with meat or nightmare fuel, but I think that is too much work.

My idea is that the Weremoose idol should simply have a new recipe, a more costly one being maybe 6 monster meat and use 2 living logs instead of grass. Along with that, the nerfs should be reversed, bringing back the old Weremoose damage and healing.

This would nerf the Weremoose in early game but would give it back the strengh for more late game bosses/battles, removing the biggest problem of Woodie (he is either too strong early or too weak late game).

Since Woodie can craft Treeguard Idols he can get the living logs with a little bit of work, but he would be unable to make a lot of them (unless you are a super skilled player but those guys can have a lot of everything) on the early game, meaning you have to choose your battles right. This also opens up a window of opportunity for dying because you cant craft idols as easily and can be caught offguard.

I think this would be a great change to balance the character and still make him worth playing. Please, give input and less discuss.

Sorry for any mistakes, english is not my mother language.

[Mysterious box]

38 minutes ago, KhannShield said:

So, we all have been discussing the problems with Woodie and his new nerf for a few hours and I had an idea that I think is worth discussing...

In another post Chev_bug commented that the Weremoose mastery could give us the ability to craft a more expensive idol which is an enhanced version of the moose, or that maybe we could feed the idol with meat or nightmare fuel, but I think that is too much work.

My idea is that the Weremoose idol should simply have a new recipe, a more costly one being maybe 6 monster meat and use 2 living logs instead of grass. Along with that, the nerfs should be reversed, bringing back the old Weremoose damage and healing.

This would nerf the Weremoose in early game but would give it back the strengh for more late game bosses/battles, removing the biggest problem of Woodie (he is either too strong early or too weak late game).

Since Woodie can craft Treeguard Idols he can get the living logs with a little bit of work, but he would be unable to make a lot of them (unless you are a super skilled player but those guys can have a lot of everything) on the early game, meaning you have to choose your battles right. This also opens up a window of opportunity for dying because you cant craft idols as easily and can be caught offguard.

I think this would be a great change to balance the character and still make him worth playing. Please, give input and less discuss.

Sorry for any mistakes, english is not my mother language.

This might sound strange but I'm fine with the living log cost but the monster meet cost is too high otherwise I'll be fine with that I would make it three still

Perhaps we can even raise the living log cost by one this incentivizes getting the tree guard skill.

[skile]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This might sound strange but I'm fine with the living log cost but the monster meet cost is too high otherwise I'll be fine with that I would make it three still

same tbh. 

[Antynomity]

No. The moose's DPS before the nerf still wouldn't justify a higher cost.

[Mysterious box]

15 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

No. The moose's DPS before the nerf still wouldn't justify a higher cost.

I mean in all honesty I agree but with how much people are trying to say that this form is some kind of bargain that is somehow better than just using a weapon and armor I feel like we're going to have to compromise somewhere despite Woodie being screwed over by this in general.

Personally these balance considerations are crazy to me when you consider the last real refresh made Maxwell what he is right now with no considerations for balance. But it is what it is what he just doesn't carry the same popularity as him and I'm starting to feel we need to accept it.

[Antynomity]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean in all honesty I agree but with how much people are trying to say that this form is some kind of bargain that is somehow better than just using a weapon and armor I feel like we're going to have to compromise somewhere despite Woodie being screwed over by this in general.

Personally these balance considerations are crazy to me when you consider the last real refresh made Maxwell what he is right now with no considerations for balance. But it is what it is what he just doesn't carry the same popularity as him and I'm starting to feel we need to accept it.

The moose is a bargain but like it's not like it's overpowered like all those videos made it out to 'be', yeah it's crazy how people go for these middle grounds when maxwell has his amazing kit and wickerbottom's books lol

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Antynomity said:

The moose is a bargain but like it's not like it's overpowered like all those videos made it out to 'be', yeah it's crazy how people go for these middle grounds when maxwell has his amazing kit and wickerbottom's books lol

I say that's debatable a bargain implies that it's better than your base and it's not it's a fast degrading weapon after activation whereas a normal weapon can be carried into the next fight not to mention it needs heavy skill point investment just to be decent as before that it's just bad.

[Antynomity]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I say that's debatable a bargain implies that it's better than your base and it's not it's a fast degrading weapon after activation whereas a normal weapon can be carried into the next fight not to mention it needs heavy skill point investment just to be decent as before that it's just bad.

I just meant that it's a good deal, not that it's "BETTER" I have literally said before that the DPS wasn't good enough to justify a nerf in any way, it's a good deal because you get damage, armour and regen with a bit of monster meat and grass, it's still outclassed by actual combat with armour and weapons as you just have more options and freedom, you can't access your inventory in were-forms.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Antynomity said:

I just meant that it's a good deal, not that it's "BETTER" I have literally said before that the DPS wasn't good enough to justify a nerf in any way, it's a good deal because you get damage, armour and regen with a bit of monster meat and grass, it's still outclassed by actual combat with armour and weapons as you just have more options and freedom, you can't access your inventory in were-forms.

But there in lies my problem weapons and armor are cheap very cheap and they're strong very strong so unless this form gets a advantage which it did with the healing and original damage I can't really consider it a bargain yes it does need it's damaged back but even if not to the same degree I feel like the healing should be bumped back up as well.

[Antynomity]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But there in lies my problem weapons and armor are cheap very cheap and they're strong very strong so unless this form gets a advantage which it did with the healing and original damage I can't really consider it a bargain yes it does need it's damaged back but even if not to the same degree I feel like the healing should be bumped back up as well.

Agreed.

[Dextops]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But there in lies my problem weapons and armor are cheap very cheap and they're strong very strong so unless this form gets a advantage which it did with the healing and original damage I can't really consider it a bargain yes it does need it's damaged back but even if not to the same degree I feel like the healing should be bumped back up as well.

They could add stun resistance so it could do better in swarms 

[nightersvalley]

A more costly recipe might be good for weremoose mastery (I also think 6 monster meat is too high tho), however it would be unreasonably expensive for weremoose without any skilltree. With a new more costly recipe for moose idle its only fair to add damage and healing for base weremoose imo.

[KhannShield]

57 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

57 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

No. The moose's DPS before the nerf still wouldn't justify a higher cost.

 

Then Woodie is doomed, there is no way he will go past the "I use him because I like him phase" because all his stuff gets outscaled by late game and the only reason to go weremoose is easier early game for noobies.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

They could add stun resistance so it could do better in swarms 

Honestly if they raise the damage back and just add histun immunity I'd be completely fine at that point.

[Deimos001]

I was discussing this with my friends and woodies dps is nothing compared to other characters as i said in my post. I agree, by making the idol more expensive you ensure players not abusing it early game but also have a decent reason to use it against bosses (regen and dmg). I propose to either raise the cost or add a new mechanic so its a little harder to access the moose, idk something like that, Klei team have way more imagination and creativity than me so i hope they bring back what they did right in the first place, the previous moose but with a resource raise

[chirsg]

13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly if they raise the damage back and just add histun immunity I'd be completely fine at that point.

Respectably, I'll have to disagree with the hitstun immunity right now. What we had before was pretty perfect. Klei did it right. I can't believe I was actually happy with something before, and I found myself figuring out kite patterns while utilizing the slam, and with the healing loss, you're rewarded for not getting hit, i.e. creativity and skill.

I tried not to rely too much on tanking in the first place because it truly isn't engaging and I think that hitstun immunity is functionally just super armor and idk how engaging it is compared to how I was operating before. 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

Respectably, I'll have to disagree with the hitstun immunity right now. What we had before was pretty perfect. Klei did it right. I can't believe I was actually happy with something before, and I found myself figuring out kite patterns while utilizing the slam, and with the healing loss, you're rewarded for not getting hit, i.e. creativity and skill.

I tried not to rely too much on tanking in the first place because it truly isn't engaging and I think that hitstun immunity is functionally just super armor and idk how engaging it is compared to how I was operating before. 

I get it but I disagree my main issue is the moose doesn't offer enough advantages to counteract the downsides of using it. Kitting is rewarded but that's something that exists inside and outside of the form people site the infinite durability weapon and armor for it being a good deal but infinite durability on weapons is already a thing in the form of the hambat which is equally a extremely cheap weapon. On the armor side of things it being it being infinite isn't actually true either because it's  limit is your hp yes kitting makes this better but that also applies to armor no?

Even if we don't give back the hp regen I feel like the moose needs that special something that sets him apart from Woodie in boss fights and he doesn't have that.

[chirsg]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I get it but I disagree my main issue is the moose doesn't offer enough advantages to counteract the downsides of using it. Kitting is rewarded but that's something that exists inside and outside of the form people site the infinite durability weapon and armor for it being a good deal but infinite durability on weapons is already a thing in the form of the hambat which is equally a extremely cheap weapon. On the armor side of things it being it being infinite isn't actually true either because it's  limit is your hp yes kitting makes this better but that also applies to armor no?

Even if we don't give back the hp regen I feel like the moose needs that special something that sets him apart from Woodie in boss fights and he doesn't have that.

i see where you're coming from. Even as wigfrid, I kite, so I'm a bit out of touch

[Antynomity]

13 hours ago, KhannShield said:

Then Woodie is doomed, there is no way he will go past the "I use him because I like him phase" because all his stuff gets outscaled by late game and the only reason to go weremoose is easier early game for noobies.

What are you on about dude I never wanted the nerf, he is outclassed even earlier that's why he didn't deserve a nerf in the first place.