Why I HATE the new skill trees.

[KromerGaming199]

It's not even that bad, but skill trees were made for the Wilson Rework, Which was the only thing that made him special at the end of the initial reworks. Giving more characters skill trees makes Wilson's rework redundant.

Buff Wilson

[Copyafriend]

So you dont hate the skill trees at all and the title was clickbait?

[Baark0]

Seriously doubt the skill trees were made specifically for Wilson and Klei randomly decided to give every other character skill trees. What's more likely is Klei was going to give Wilson transmutation for this rework, thought that'd be too boring on it's own and decided to tease skill trees.

[Arcwell]

19 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

Seriously doubt the skill trees were made specifically for Wilson and Klei randomly decided to give every other character skill trees. What's more likely is Klei was going to give Wilson transmutation for this rework, thought that'd be too boring on it's own and decided to tease skill trees.

If that's true, that in a sense means Wilson is the only character to have not gotten a rework (since he skipped straight to the skill tree phase).

Speculation aside, in response to OP: Wilson's skill tree being underwhelming and skill trees existing on other characters don't have to be tied to each other. You can advocate for Wilson getting buffs without opposing skill trees on other characters.

[KromerGaming199]

2 hours ago, Arcwell said:

If that's true, that in a sense means Wilson is the only character to have not gotten a rework (since he skipped straight to the skill tree phase).

Speculation aside, in response to OP: Wilson's skill tree being underwhelming and skill trees existing on other characters don't have to be tied to each other. You can advocate for Wilson getting buffs without opposing skill trees on other characters.

"Wilson's skill tree being underwhelming and skill trees existing on other characters don't have to be tied to each other. You can advocate for Wilson getting buffs without opposing skill trees on other characters."

Exactly that. Bravo.

The problem with skipping to skill trees is because it was teased as his rework!

I hate the new ones because they exist. Sounds stupid, Right?

[Waitdire]

2 hours ago, Arcwell said:

If that's true, that in a sense means Wilson is the only character to have not gotten a rework (since he skipped straight to the skill tree phase).

No, they reworked Wilson. In addition to the skill tree, he also learned how to shave his beard in stages and now you can create a meat scarecrow and a carpet of beard, wait 8 days and quietly live through the winter again, and before you could only do one of two things. And he also gets 10 sanity for shaving, for a total of 16 days 30 sanity. It was a good buff Webber.

[Creatorofswamps]

43 minutes ago, Waitdire said:

No, they reworked Wilson. In addition to the skill tree, he also learned how to shave his beard in stages and now you can create a meat scarecrow and a carpet of beard, wait 8 days and quietly live through the winter again, and before you could only do one of two things. And he also gets 10 sanity for shaving, for a total of 16 days 30 sanity. It was a good buff Webber.

He still doesn't have a rework, only a skill tree. All you have listed is a general update available for 2 Persians and the carpet is available to everyone

[Axolotl Jack]

Didn't people argue that Wilson's skill tree makes him too unique (as opposed to his simple and 'classic' character) after his rework? And when other characters got them, everyone is mad that Wilson is no longer unique? 

[KromerGaming199]

22 minutes ago, Waitdire said:

No, they reworked Wilson. In addition to the skill tree, he also learned how to shave his beard in stages and now you can create a meat scarecrow and a carpet of beard, wait 8 days and quietly live through the winter again, and before you could only do one of two things. And he also gets 10 sanity for shaving, for a total of 16 days 30 sanity. It was a good buff Webber.

1. I play Wilson.

2. Meat EFFIGY was in the game before the rework. Also applies to Beard Hair Rug. 

3. Beard isn't required to survive winter, nor quietly. A thermal stone can keep you warm for five minutes if heated to it's maximum temperature. The only way to make your rug and effigy before winter is to shave on day 16, which leaves enough time to gain 15 seconds of insulation. Whoop-de-doo.

4. "And before you could only do one of two things" even though you can live winter without a beard, and don't need to make beard rugs. Meat Effigies are useful, but aren't required when playing multiplayer... The main point of the game's entire existence. Telltale Hearts, Booster Shots, and Life Giving Amulets exist, even if rare, or harder to obtain for someone with less experience. (Kite Bees, Rot Juicy Berries, and actually use Nitre.) I will commend you for noting down you could only do one, but you can shave after winter to get your rug. And if you REALLY want your effigies before winter, Use Transmute Icky II (2) to turn beefalo wool into beard hair!

5.  "He also gets 10 sanity for shaving, for a total of 16 days 30 sanity" despite the fact that you use his beard as evidence for winter? You can get more sanity from a bug net, flowers, and Butterflies. (1 Bug Net = 10 Butterflies = 10 Flowers = 50 Sanity) You can get 50 sanity multiple times per day. All you need are flowers, bugnets, and butterflies, who spawn from flowers. 12 Petals can be further used for the Garland, which provides a passive sanity gain of 1.33 Sanity/min.

6. Final thing, Using "Learned" to describe what was changed by devs in a game rework isn't exactly helping an argument, but if you're six, I can't stop you. Also, I think you need to learn more english...

"Uhm, Actually" moment for me, but I need to prove that most of the things he said were about the skill tree, the one thing he said was different from different buffs. As I see it, The beard stages were the only buff, and it doesn't even help that much. 30 Sanity every 16 days is laughable.

 

[Creatorofswamps]

1 hour ago, KromerGaming199 said:

The problem with skipping to skill trees is because it was teased as his rework!

As you said, the problem is that we were given a skill tree without Rework, but this has only become apparent now, people are very upset about it. There are no problems in the skill trees of other characters as such, the problem is that Wilson is devoid of Rework, and also that the skill tree is very dim compared to others, alchemy is very useful (with the exception of precious stones) storing in a beard is funny and pleasant, but there is no slowing down of pop products, as in the refrigerator, and torch..it it's not the worst thing in the world, but it suits Willow better. And now look at the others, how everything works for the character. I just hope the Glue improves either Wilson or his skill tree.

14 minutes ago, Axolotl Jack said:

Didn't people argue that Wilson's skill tree makes him too unique (as opposed to his simple and 'classic' character) after his rework? And when other characters got them, everyone is mad that Wilson is no longer unique? 

So said random people for whom Willson is "a character for beginners" (this is the most disgusting phrase lately)

[KromerGaming199]

1 minute ago, Axolotl Jack said:

Didn't people argue that Wilson's skill tree makes him too unique (as opposed to his simple and 'classic' character) after his rework? And when other characters got them, everyone is mad that Wilson is no longer unique? 

Kinda stupid, but the skill tree rewards players for picking Wilson, and play as him for 150 days... or using console commands and getting all insight points in twenty minutes...

If anybody wanted to play as basic Wilson, they can just ignore the skill tree, but I doubt they would. The things about the skill tree is that his beard was the only thing about his character, and is the only original base for the skill tree. Everything else in the skill tree benefits Wilson by giving new abilities, like Transmutation and (Torch is so helpful).

Affinity isn't even that complex! It uses Alchemy while benefiting the player with ease of access to the new rift items.

 

The main reason I dislike skill trees for any other character is that (Once Again...) The skill tree was his rework. Don't bring up beard hair stages. The skill trees for every other character expands on their already existing character, like buffing the speed of Wolfgang to match his mighty for in DS, or just buffing Wigfrid's books. It doesn't add anything new to the character, and just buffs them. Alchemy changes how you use some resources, turning one into the other makes surviving as Wilson a bit more manageable, while not just buffing the character. (It adds to his abilities instead of buffing existing ones, and it's a bit stupid judging by Beard and Affinity.) instead of making surviving directly easier, it makes resources easier to gather, while sacrificing resources to get it. (2 Hounds Tooth -> 1 Bone Shard then 2 Bone Shards -> 1 Hounds Tooth loses you 1 tooth and one shard)

 

TL;DR: Wilson gains abilities from his skill tree, making it his rework, and other skill trees buff the already existing foundation of the survivor.

4 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

So you dont hate the skill trees at all and the title was clickbait?

I still dislike them, because of Wilson's adding an ability while the new ones only buff the already existing character foundations.

5 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

As you said, the problem is that we were given a skill tree without Rework, but this has only become apparent now, people are very upset about it. There are no problems in the skill trees of other characters as such, the problem is that Wilson is devoid of Rework, and also that the skill tree is very dim compared to others, alchemy is very useful (with the exception of precious stones) storing in a beard is funny and pleasant, but there is no slowing down of pop products, as in the refrigerator, and torch..it it's not the worst thing in the world, but it suits Willow better. And now look at the others, how everything works for the character. I just hope the Glue improves either Wilson or his skill tree.

So said random people for whom Willson is "a character for beginners" (this is the most disgusting phrase lately)

W @Creatorofswamps

[Creatorofswamps]

16 minutes ago, KromerGaming199 said:

As I see it, The beard stages were the only buff, and it doesn't even help that much. 30 Sanity every 16 days is laughable.

Besides, it's not just Wilson's case, but Webber's as well. So, alas, even this is not a Willson thing.

[00petar00]

Why are you surprised when Wilson is left as a bland character?

That was all he was meant to be from the start so that new players can play the game without  relying on character abilities or downsides.

Klei could have worded it better when they released Wilson refresh but it was obvious there was going to be a skill tree for every character and if you are playing Wilson and expecting a full rework with a lot of unique abilities, you are playing the wrong character.

[Creatorofswamps]

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That was all he was meant to be from the start so that new players can play the game without  relying on character abilities or downsides.

He is not suitable as a character for beginners, it's strange that you don't understand this. All the newbies choose Wendy because they don't know how to fight. When I suggested Wilson to my friend Novechka as an option, he said he was boring and chose Woody because he was more interesting in the game

[00petar00]

1 minute ago, Creatorofswamps said:

He is not suitable as a character for beginners, it's strange that you don't understand this. All the newbies choose Wendy because they don't know how to fight. When I suggested Wilson to my friend Novechka as an option, he said he was boring and chose Woody because he was more interesting in the game

So they choose to play without learning by relying on a crutch. Wilson allows them to actually learn the game and not feel lost when they pick any other character.

It is obvious that Wilson won't be as interesting in this state but if you give him powers that players are asking for new players won't be able to pick a character that doesn't make part of the gameplay trivial that they will need to learn later as any other character.

[KromerGaming199]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

And if you are playing Wilson and expecting a full rework with a lot of unique abilities, you are playing the wrong character.

Wasn't even wanting a lot of abilities, It's about how Wilson's refresh is just his skill tree, which is what other characters are getting after THEIR refreshes. I can't really make sense of how his entire rework is just a feature already planned for every character, especially since he's the last to get one. He got Transmutation, and that's great, but seeing how alchemy is a new ability, It really undermines skill trees for characters who just get buffs. Probably the only thing I'm mad about is that the new skill trees are built on the new, refreshed characters, not the standard ones before the refresh, which made them unique.

TL;DR: I'm mad because Wilson's skill tree is his refresh and the others get skill trees based on their refreshed characters and not focusing on the base, unrefreshed characters.

[flamboyant wolf]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

So they choose to play without learning by relying on a crutch. Wilson allows them to actually learn the game and not feel lost when they pick any other character.

It is obvious that Wilson won't be as interesting in this state but if you give him powers that players are asking for new players won't be able to pick a character that doesn't make part of the gameplay trivial that they will need to learn later as any other character.

imho, it is good to learn the game step by step, as it's just much more manageable this way. 

If someone is struggling with fighting, for example, they may pick Wendy and rely on Abigail for a while, meanwhile learning other game mechanics. Once they got some basic survival skills, they may then try learning to fight, or they may not, but would they do so if they didn't have the option to rely on Abigail in the first place, or would they just drop the game because of difficulty? After all, many new players already find the game too difficult, so what good would it be, to make them learn it all at once?

My point is: new players "relying on the crutch" isn't necessary a bad thing, as it can give them some room to breathe and develop other survival skills, learn other mechanics etc. 

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

So they choose to play without learning by relying on a crutch. Wilson allows them to actually learn the game and not feel lost when they pick any other character.

It is obvious that Wilson won't be as interesting in this state but if you give him powers that players are asking for new players won't be able to pick a character that doesn't make part of the gameplay trivial that they will need to learn later as any other character.

I mean technically speaking learning with other characters isn't always using a crutch either a character like Woodie, Warly, Willow, or Winona offer a better learning experience than Wilson because they're downsides will take players out of their comfort zones to an extent and give them a realistic expectation of what to expect with other characters. Wilson doesn't really feel a role anymore.

[Creatorofswamps]

16 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean technically speaking learning with other characters isn't always using a crutch either a character like Woodie, Warly, Willow, or Winona offer a better learning experience than Wilson because they're downsides will take players out of their comfort zones to an extent and give them a realistic expectation of what to expect with other characters. Wilson doesn't really feel a role anymore.

agree