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Something that always bothers me


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“Its not done yet”

people will say this in regards to anything as a way to cover up that its imperfect and needs serious work. Its fine for stuff to not be done yet, dont get me wrong. But we need to judge stuff as if its coming out exactly as is, and discuss how we’d improve it.
 

This also goes for stuff thats meant to be “future proofing” its great to have weapons that go through the theoretical future “planar armor” thats great and all, but when an update hits it should have some relevance right now. 

The weapons and armor? Cool, except for the planar armor and damage, its useless outside of its own little circle, so it should gain use. Make the planar damage go through enemies armor too.
 

Toadstool has natural armor that builds up, so do rock lobsters, snurtles, and a couple more mobs. 
 

its literally armor piercing damage that only works on one kind of armor. Kind of silly imho.

and stop using “more features will be added later” as an excuse, sometimes we should point at something and say “yeah its cool but it does need more work” its genuine criticism that should be voiced so klei knows where worl needs to be done.

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I mean sure, klei are putting this stuff in beta to gather feedback. They want players opinions to help shape their plans. But it is reasonable for people to assume that future content will build on their current beta attempts. The problem is we largely never get a statement or any indication from the developers on what their goals or ambitions are, so its hard to give contstructive feedback imo.

 

For example with the recent concept of brightshade rifts it would have been nice to hear what the point is in the minds of the developers.

What is the actual intent for requiring players to first kill the Celestial Champion before the rifts spawn?

Are they meant to add increased difficulty to the game, which would justify the perceived extreme numbers and health the plants they released with?

Do they want more base defense in the game, regarding the initial ability for the plants to destroy walls?

What was the actual intended use for the new brightshade armor set that sparked its creation during development?

What is the thought process for adding planar defense to the game?

A lot of my feedback would change depending on how they answer these questions

 

The problem is klei never reveals their development goals either because they just want to sway in whatever direction the wind on the forums takes them or more worryingly they dont know themselves.

So in the absence of any larger picture to look at of course people assume klei knows/has more plans they havent shared yet and arent instead co-developing a game with the forums.

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Bruh.. your complaining about what is currently in beta that has weapons and at least a few mobs that are designed to use them on.

Hilariously- Your not complaining about the Previous update: Which added a brand new type of Resource, Weapons created with those Resources, And a Boss that doesn’t have anything really worth fighting it for, that Klei openly admits would be foundational for future updates, the future update we got.. abandoned DreadStone/PureHorror and is instead a Brightstone type of Resource.

Now sure: You can say that both the previous update & the current update are setting us up for a future update… but then you’d just be saying the very same thing you complained about at the start of your post.

checkmate I guess? 

 

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If only Klei listened to us more often. They listen to some suggestions, I agree, but very good ones sometimes being fully ignored.

"Later", "yet" are very vague words - they may mean the next update or 5 years later, and yet they continue to add new stuff despite having the unfinished things, like Gorge (Mumsy and Billy) and Archives (sealed portal) arcs. But we already see a new Daywalker boss, about who we have zero understanding regarding his past too.

Come on, even the Terraria Crossover had so much potential, and all we got is skins and two bosses, one of which barely represents his Terraria alter-ego. 

I think most forumites will like the idea of updates taking longer but having higher quality. And updates not only being "adding new stuffs" but also "rebalancing/refreshing existing items to fit as most of the game as possible", like they do with QoL updates (that's why I love them so much).

Even now I sometimes don't understand the actual endpoint of updates since the theater one.

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16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

checkmate

Is this a DST reference?-

 

On a more serious note, i do think that the dreadstone and pure horror are weird, but honestly it works much better because both of those armor pieces are best in slot for day to day use because they have effectively no cost (lmao imagine not having tea) because they self repair while also being tied with some of the best in game defensive equipment that is currently available (thulecite) while also just being drops from an optional boss. 
 

i wish we’d stop getting new “endgame loot” that is the same damage as previous best weapons. The armor and weapons being especially effective against 1 (count it) 1! Enemy is all pretty pathetic considering that aside from that one enemy we basically have an extra durable football helmet and log suit, aka the cheapest armor available in the game, and a new much more expensive, but more durable, glass cutter, it could glow, only 1 other mid af weapon does that, it could have an interaction that makes gestalts from the crown deal extra damage, it could deal 85 damage. Theres lots of ways to make this equipment genuinely interesting and worth using, but honestly instead of wearing the helmet id rather just keep wearing the crown, id LOSE dps on the switch out, and bone armor or dreadstone armor is infinitely more usable thanks to not having to carry a spare or two crafting materials as long as i’m careful 

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1 hour ago, sudoku said:

For example with the recent concept of brightshade rifts it would have been nice to hear what the point is in the minds of the developers.

What is the actual intent for requiring players to first kill the Celestial Champion before the rifts spawn?

Are they meant to add increased difficulty to the game, which would justify the perceived extreme numbers and health the plants they released with?

 

The problem is klei never reveals their development goals either because they just want to sway in whatever direction the wind on the forums takes them or more worryingly they dont know themselves.

In the roadmap they say they are working to build up the end-game loop for DST.  I'm guessing that is why the new stuff only happens after CC's defeat.  Doesn't mean I like what they're doing, but that is why XD

I do question how much Klei plans ahead, or plans together.  They gave Wolfgang an extremely controversial nerf in removing his movement speed.  A decision that was specifically made for "character balance" and yet...  Immediately following Wolfgang getting the nerf bat we get Wicker and her new moon, rain, and plant books that are obsurdely OP, and then Maxwell who not only uses all of her books but ALSO has the best harvester summons...  Really hard to see how the nerf to Wolfgang was justified at *all* with these other characters out.  Sitting on a server without Maxwell (with a wickerswap library) just isn't happening b/c its too good XD

I'm not happy with what the beta has so far.  tbh it feels like just another type of hound attack, and we already have those... so I don't see what this brings to the table that makes it worth doing.

53 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Bruh.. your complaining about what is currently in beta that has weapons and at least a few mobs that are designed to use them on.

Hilariously- Your not complaining about the Previous update: Which added a brand new type of Resource, Weapons created with those Resources, And a Boss that doesn’t have anything really worth fighting it for, that Klei openly admits would be foundational for future updates, the future update we got.. abandoned DreadStone/PureHorror and is instead a Brightstone type of Resource.

Now sure: You can say that both the previous update & the current update are setting us up for a future update… but then you’d just be saying the very same thing you complained about at the start of your post.

checkmate I guess? 

 

You don't think the Werepig boss has anything to fight it for?  Do you not think there is a reason to fight the eyeball bosses either?  They both have the same rewards - easily repairable comfort armor - why would one be worth fighting and the other not?  Personally I find both bosses fun, and their rewards useful.  I'm also very grateful they are balanced towards a single player.

imo werepig and dreadstone is a much better addition then "here is a new weapon that sucks except that we added this new mob that sucks unless you use this weapon against it."  I'm sure we'll see both brightstone and dreadstone represented in future additions, they are obviously paired resources by sharing the same naming convention, so we'll see how it goes - I have no criticism about the werepig / dreadstone, but brightstone, planar damage, and dumb plant hound waves?  Yeah, got problems with that.  Its annoying and contrived.  "Here is new monster and new armor / weapon you must use for it, that is also pretty useless anywhere else" yeah I'll pass.

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34 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

and stop using “more features will be added later” as an excuse, sometimes we should point at something and say “yeah its cool but it does need more work” its genuine criticism that should be voiced so klei knows where worl needs to be done.

Completely agree with this, and this is definitely not limited to the current beta branch. However, I'm actually more worried about the developer team relying on the idea of "we will add more features later" or "we will fix it eventually" instead of forum users presenting this as an argument for discussions.

I'm aware that updates don't have to be game changing immediately or that they don't have to address every single issue present in the game, however once an update gets released, the changes usually stay as they are for months before getting significant additions or fixes. This might just translate into a couple of deadlines for the team, however for us players, its literally tens or hundreds of days waiting for the next update following up on those changes. Some might not mind waiting this long, but I think it is more than fair for those that do to voice their concerns and ask for more immediate solutions, and to expect a more direct feedback from the developer team.

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1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

In the roadmap they say they are working to build up the end-game loop for DST.  I'm guessing that is why the new stuff only happens after CC's defeat.  Doesn't mean I like what they're doing, but that is why XD

 I only pose this question because beating CC generally assumes that the player is well versed in combat (or at the very least they are willing to engage in combat related activities and what is supposed to be the biggest test of combat - the final boss fight). So it stands to reason that when they would develop the brightshades they would have this in mind and that brightshades would pose some sort of interesting challenge for players who have already willingly taken the time to defeat CC.

So my feedback would be that the brightshades need to adhere to providing an interesting challenge for people to solve who have already killed CC and are looking for the next challenge, even if killing brightshades for their crafts is only the first step in that challenge, and to avoid neutering them because it goes against the design intent and renders them boring additions to the game. Players who hate fighting or who dont want to be bothered by extra challenges are left frustrated no matter how much you nerf them into the ground and players who are looking for something interesting to do after managing to conquer CC are left frustrated because the content isnt engaging and boring. 

If on the other hand they didnt want an increase in difficulty or assumed willingness of players to undertake more combat related tasks, then i would suggest rifts being tied to a more casual measure of progression such as rifts appearing at the start of year 2 instead of the endgame boss.

I guess my point is we really need to know what their overarching design intent is for the new content in order to judge it fairly. But I do agree with your assessment on their balance - mostly that they are completely inconsistent leaving players to assess balance on what they personally enjoy leaving klei to cherry pick the balance that leaves players the most non-angry at its release. If they had a more consistent design philosophy and adherence to a general rule of balance then i think players would be able to understand their intent a lot better. 

 

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