I adore Plannar dmg, its needs tweaking and be more impactful but for me the future looks promisisng

[Mike23Ua]

What is the fastest possible time someone can kill CC? Because whatever that is- is when New Game + gets forced onto those “newb” players regardless of how many days they’ve survived.

Originally: Hound waves grew larger and larger the longer you’d been alive, and if some NEW player joined, the hound wave wouldn’t spawn on them until they had gotten established.

Kleis Latest way of designing content simply lets more skilled players FORCE changes onto Less Skilled Players.

Not a surprise though.. someone talented enough to find the Terrarium could troll other players with nightly EoT summons, there’s also that whole Underground Turf War players can activate, and NOW they can trigger otherworldly invaders from portal rifts.

In contrast: it’s not the same as the game recognizing someone join a world and have survived 1 Day so your day 300 Hound Waves ignore them.

This ACTUALLY Happens.., but whatever the fastest time to kill CC is, that’s now how quickly someone ELSE can force the game into NG+ mode.

Unless Klei wants to give rifts the same treatment as Hound Waves (targeting the players who’ve survived the longest while ignoring or going lighter on low day count new joiners) you run into the problem of someone being able to trigger world altering events on other players who were struggling to survive as is.

Sure I suppose that’s the PLAYERS fault for joining a world that’s been around for 2000 days, but really this just limits the amount of TOGETHER you can play in a game called Dont Starve “Together”

I know I can speak from personal experience that I absolutely HATE building my worlds up and decorating them real pretty at day 300-500 only to have to start a brand new 1 day save so the game world hasn’t gotten too difficult on my fresh joining friends.

It’s A bit Ironic that a game called “Together” is so Unfriendly to multiplayer.

 

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What is the fastest possible time someone can kill CC? Because whatever that is- is when New Game + gets forced onto those “newb” players regardless of how many days they’ve survived.

Originally it was summer before the changed the recipe for pearls house now I believe it's spring but even then it takes a massive amount of work that most people don't have the patience or experience to do it that quickly. But even then by that point most of the server should be aware of what's going on and decide on wether that's best for them or not this isn't something quick or easy to do nor is it something you can hide from the server.

 

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

In contrast: it’s not the same as the game recognizing someone join a world and have survived 1 Day so your day 300 Hound Waves ignore them.

This is simply impossible to implement to all new content because being in the presence of players experiencing these changes is still effecting them the only thing they could do is just not add anything at all or populate the world with lootbox islands.

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Unless Klei wants to give rifts the same treatment as Hound Waves (targeting the players who’ve survived the longest while ignoring or going lighter on low day count new joiners) you run into the problem of someone being able to trigger world altering events on other players who were struggling to survive as is.

Sure I suppose that’s the PLAYERS fault for joining a world that’s been around for 2000 days, but really this just limits the amount of TOGETHER you can play in a game called Dont Starve “Together”

I know I can speak from personal experience that I absolutely HATE building my worlds up and decorating them real pretty at day 300-500 only to have to start a brand new 1 day save so the game world hasn’t gotten too difficult on my fresh joining friends.

It’s A bit Ironic that a game called “Together” is so Unfriendly to multiplayer

It would be impossible to change rifts this way but also assuming your playing as a team this is still very balanced as a player joining a late world should also be reaping the benefits of late game loot making them stronger than day 1 players this responsibility lies in the player's hands the game shouldn't have to make sure players are working together and it also shouldn't have to overclock everyone's pc to make sure every individual player's experience on a server is completely personalized.

[Vinja]

1 hour ago, PetulantPansy said:

It would, but this is literally game progression. Every existing weapon in the arsenal can be crafted in the first 20 days. Then you can never progress any further from a damage output perspective outside of switching characters or cooking up volt goat jelly and dealing with wet mobs. In might not make a lot of sense in its current form since there's only 1 weapon designed for 1 mob, but I at least would give it a shot.

It’s NOT progression, it’s an illusion of progression. It’s literally the exact same sword that has been in the game for ten years just a different color. I think my entire point went clear over your head.

[Zeklo]

As long as they add enough content to justify the system, I'm hyped. I've always found number bloating to be pretty meh. Slapping higher numbers on everything is just lame. It also ends up 'invalidating' everything that comes before it.

This won't break anything preexisting, and it provides a new path forward—it should be very interesting!

(Not that I wouldn't mind reworks to early game 'progression', but this is a safe play)

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

The implementation isn't getting appreciated enough. People have been asking for over a year for more meaningful content and more challenges. They found a way to insert more challenging content without overwhelming your dst noob who has under 100 hours. And it's also at a variable time based on player progress. DST already has a ton of content and if you can't kill CC, is it really a good idea to start throwing tougher gameplay at players? Some people still understandably find DST to be challenging as-is. 

I think the implementation is exactly the problem though.  This content isn't going to be more challenging, just more annoying and arbitrary.  The new sword doesn't come with new abilities that empower the player to do cool things, and the monsters don't provide interesting mechanics to play with - its just switching from one weapon where you press f to attack to another weapon where you press f to attack.  Compared to existing weapons, the new weapon is the blandest way to go.  I'd take a dozen more variants like Strident Trident and Thulecite Club over the BS weapon any day.

While most weapons can be crafted quickly in a new world that is because the player has progressed in skill.  You just don't see it because you're on the other side of that progression barrier.  If they want to shift away from a player skill driven game to a grindy jrpg power-scaling game then I guess this is a great start lol  but I'm not here for it.

New challenges can be added throughout the progression curve of the world by just giving combat a face lift.  It doesn't have to be full forge style either, just give monsters new behaviors that require more then counting hits and stepping back slightly.  The game already supports this, it just needs to be spread out - and this can still loop in to introduce new harder content for more experienced players by making the attack patterns more complex and the timing more strict.  Planar damage could even be part of it, but not how it is now.

[PetulantPansy]

1 hour ago, Vinja said:

It’s NOT progression, it’s an illusion of progression. It’s literally the exact same sword that has been in the game for ten years just a different color. I think my entire point went clear over your head.

That's the point. It's balanced so it doesn't 1 shot all of the existing mobs in the game, while also letting you fight late game mobs/bosses in a more efficient manner. That's literally textbook game progression. It has more functionality than a pure dark sword. Saying it's just a reskin ignores its other functionalities that are needed for the late game.

38 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I think the implementation is exactly the problem though.  This content isn't going to be more challenging, just more annoying and arbitrary.  The new sword doesn't come with new abilities that empower the player to do cool things, and the monsters don't provide interesting mechanics to play with - its just switching from one weapon where you press f to attack to another weapon where you press f to attack.  Compared to existing weapons, the new weapon is the blandest way to go.  I'd take a dozen more variants like Strident Trident and Thulecite Club over the BS weapon any day.

In its current state, I would agree. But this *could* be the start of a new big content arc. No one knows how this will play out but I at least think it has the potential to add more challenges/bosses/content in the future. I see this update similarly to how you see it - punishing, tedious, something to avoid. But this could be the groundwork for a great content arc so I'm not going to write it off just because the foundation of this arc doesnt seem rewarding.

42 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

New challenges can be added throughout the progression curve of the world by just giving combat a face lift.  It doesn't have to be full forge style either, just give monsters new behaviors that require more then counting hits and stepping back slightly.  The game already supports this, it just needs to be spread out - and this can still loop in to introduce new harder content for more experienced players by making the attack patterns more complex and the timing more strict.  Planar damage could even be part of it, but not how it is now.

Few people will want to come back to the game to fight the same mobs but with different kiting patterns. That's just really boring. People want new content. So redoing combat in the existing constant feels like a very poor use of time/resources if you want me to be honest. Why not just suggest these combat ideas when new mobs/bosses come out. We'll have the best of both worlds. 

[Yuuko]

16 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Few people will want to come back to the game to fight the same mobs but with different kiting patterns. That's just really boring. People want new content. So redoing combat in the existing constant feels like a very poor use of time/resources if you want me to be honest. Why not just suggest these combat ideas when new mobs/bosses come out. We'll have the best of both worlds. 

If the kiting pattern is just counting a different number of hits before stepping slightly back, sure - people would hate it if they amount of time were randomized or just changed up for different values.  That isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about things like Ancient Guardian that does charge attacks and jumps, or how Dragon Fly lunges to hit you if you just basic step away, or how Bee Queen can leave slow trails with its attacks, or Klaus who has different spells and lunge attacks.  These all liven up combat and actually challenge a player's skill.  More then that, even in repetition things like AG and Klaus are loved fights because there is just more to do in them, even if you're still doing the same 4-5 things.

So why not give Hounds / varglets / vargs some life steal so tanking them vs dodging changes how the fight will play out.  Spiders the ability to shoot some webbing to slow you, and make the webbing they spit lead your movement so you have to actively juke them.  and basically more like this.  Just like we have a ton of items going unused that could use a face lift, we have monsters in the same boat.  The gardening overhaul showed that redesigning older content to be more engaging is a huge win for the playerbase at all levels of play, there is no reason to leave all of these monsters as basic fights when they could be made more engaging and fun.

If the goal of these updates is to actually improve the game and provide more progression, then give players more to learn and interact with.  Don't just version gear, that's such an artificial way to create an illusion of difficulty or progression, without actually doing it.  In the end its 100% going to feel like a chore to just change gear for a fight.

[Mike23Ua]

The roadmap literally states that the April Content update is the first update of a new story Arc.. so there’s that.

Theres also the fact that redesigning the games entire combat system for old mobs just sounds absolutely lazy, I mean it’s OLD Content, people know it.. they’re familiar with it and some people even ENJOY it.. So no, I would not be happy at all if Beefalo suddenly started Belly Slamming the ground with AoE attacks. Save that for a New Mob.. or a new variant of an existing mob.

For example: In Wanda’s Short we see Shadow creatures actually able to chase her by using the Shadows of trees and such, which I’m perfectly sure my Xbox Series S console is more than capable of and it’s something I’d like to see Shadows actually be able to DO at some point..

But that should be handled under adding say idk a Pure Terror Variant to Crawling Horror/TerrorBeak or by adding a game mode option for a more sophisticated Difficulty.

It should NOT be handled by just completely changing what people already love and enjoy about the game.

But all this talk about a combat rework or mob behavior overhauls is getting way off topic of the original focus of the thread. So as Mr JoeW would say- can we please get back on topic? 

[Yuuko]

33 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The roadmap literally states that the April Content update is the first update of a new story Arc.. so there’s that.

Theres also the fact that redesigning the games entire combat system for old mobs just sounds absolutely lazy, I mean it’s OLD Content, people know it.. they’re familiar with it and some people even ENJOY it.. So no, I would not be happy at all if Beefalo suddenly started Belly Slamming the ground with AoE attacks. Save that for a New Mob.. or a new variant of an existing mob.

The new arc can still happen, just make it actually part of the game instead of a tacked on equipment reset.

Also gardening was OLD content, people knew it, were familiar with it - and yes some people enjoyed it - it was still one of the best overhauls they've done in a while.  Better than most ocean and moon quay updates by a long shot - AND - it is accessible at all levels of play, yet has its own sense of progression as you learn the plants, growth cycles and care routines.  A skilled player can access the plants they want much quicker then a new player.  imo the gardening update was the gold star update that other ones should strive for - revitalizing existing content, added new options, and gave player skill a place to be expressed.  Far better then what this update is doing.