I adore Plannar dmg, its needs tweaking and be more impactful but for me the future looks promisisng

[Malfario]

As with this update we got introduced to plannar dmg, a lot of people have talked about it already and explained it better than i could, but i wanted to point out something about its implementation that got me overjoyed.

Weapons having different kinds of dmg.

I didnt expect it but the more i think about it the more i like the idea, i agree with the argument that we already have super incredible armors and weapons and that its difficult adding gear that is better than the darksword, but the different kind of dmg mechanics opens the posibility to a universe of new weapons and finally a progression for the end game.

Lets take for example the Bat bat, it´s concept it´s great but the dps loss from a better weapon makes it not worth the trouble unless you are playing wormwood or wes, but what if instead of only having the bat bat we had Vampirism damage, that make it so the weapon cure the player every time they hit and the higher vampirism dmg the weapon has the more it cured per hit landed.

I put this example as away to show how current mechanics could be expanded and revisited but the posibilitys are endless:

Mastermind dmg, adds the posibility of landing a critic hit with a chance based on the players sanity.

Posion dmg, enemys hitted with this dmg loose health over time and the effect agravates the more hits you land but the effects vanish shortly after stoping hitting.

Witchy dmg, it increases the closer a new moon is

Dead hands dmg, every time you land a hit you loose health but the less health you have the more dmg you do.

Etc etc etc.

These are just examples made on the spot without much though, not to mention weapons that have multiple kinds of dmgs, or items like hats, helmets or amulets that gave the player extra kinds of dmgs or transformed kinds of dmgs of a weapon into other kinds of dmgs.

I think this is one of the best paths kley could have implemented to make the combat system evolve adding an extra layer of complexity to all the aspects of it. 

I am still expecting to see whats to come but as i said on the title of this post, in my eyes the future looks promising.

 

Edit: More examples have been added after the post was made in the wake of Abrocator´s coments on this same post, thanks for reading

[Vinja]

I would rather them release a new, interesting, functionally different weapon than a dark sword reskin they have to force you to use because it otherwise would serve literally no purpose.

I’m gonna put faith in klei and hope they’ve got a plan in mind but the update as is I think is really close to being awesome but their sheepishness and fear of real progression is starting to disappoint me.

This new gear is not progression, it’s an illusion of progression. You’re using the same weapon with a different color simply because you’re forced to otherwise the tedious new content added will be more tedious. Not the best game design in my opinion.

[Gashzer]

11 minutes ago, Vinja said:

I would rather them release a new, interesting, functionally different weapon than a dark sword reskin they have to force you to use because it otherwise would serve literally no purpose.

I’m gonna put faith in klei and hope they’ve got a plan in mind but the update as is I think is really close to being awesome but their sheepishness and fear of real progression is starting to disappoint me.

This new gear is not progression, it’s an illusion of progression. You’re using the same weapon with a different color simply because you’re forced to otherwise the tedious new content added will be more tedious. Not the best game design in my opinion.

How functionally different can klei make new weapons without reworking combat all together? 

We already have longer range (alarming clock), more damage with dark sword, more durability and rng secondary attack with thulecite club. Light source weapon with morning star. 

Giving a weapon that does a good bit more damage would outshine every other weapon option so thats a no. Attacking faster would look glitchy as all hell so thats a no.

Literally giving special damage values and resistances is the only thing klei can do easily without creating completely new attack animations... which would be awesome but ive noticed klei love to recycle animations whenever they can only creating new ones if absolutely necessary.

Ok i suppose a AoE damage weapon would be the very last thing they could do but that would undermine Wendy, Wormwood and woodie who all have unique forms of AoE damage, if its a purely very late game weapon then it would be ok.

As brightshade sword undermines wolfgang,wigfrid and wanda atm... which is fine cause you access it so late in your playthrough that you will have already benefitted alot from their damage boosts.

[goblinball]

I agree, I think that while planar damage’s execution isn’t perfect, the concept is fine. Instead of just replacing old weapons with new ones, now there’s more thought behind which weapons/armor you decide to use.

Take helmets for example. Before 99% of the time for combat you’d just use football helmets early-game, and thulecite crowns late-game. With the new bright shade helmets, instead of just replacing thulecite crowns entirely, they have their advantages and disadvantages. So while they’ll probably be objectively better for new post cc/fuelweaver content assuming more stuff will have planar damage, thul crowns aren’t made entirely redundant and pointless. 

[Vinja]

50 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

How functionally different can klei make new weapons without reworking combat all together? 

We already have longer range (alarming clock), more damage with dark sword, more durability and rng secondary attack with thulecite club. Light source weapon with morning star. 

Giving a weapon that does a good bit more damage would outshine every other weapon option so thats a no. Attacking faster would look glitchy as all hell so thats a no.

Literally giving special damage values and resistances is the only thing klei can do easily without creating completely new attack animations... which would be awesome but ive noticed klei love to recycle animations whenever they can only creating new ones if absolutely necessary.

Ok i suppose a AoE damage weapon would be the very last thing they could do but that would undermine Wendy, Wormwood and woodie who all have unique forms of AoE damage, if its a purely very late game weapon then it would be ok.

As brightshade sword undermines wolfgang,wigfrid and wanda atm... which is fine cause you access it so late in your playthrough that you will have already benefitted alot from their damage boosts.

You just came up with a new type of weapon on the fly, they could also do something like a dark magic dagger with lower damage but has a ranged lunge for the first hit with a burst of damage that costs sanity to do, there’s tons of stuff they can do they aren’t just limited to dark sword reskins. And these are just ideas that we came up with in a moment, if you actually invested more time into coming up with new and refreshing ideas for weapons I’m sure Klei could come up with things that are way better than these ideas.Trying to use some self inflicted limitation as an argument is simply ignorant. And yes a new weapon type would probably require a new swing animation which klei is more than capable of doing.

[GrapeVruit]

I think aside from better damage they could give the items an additional bonus for using them. Maybe the more you used them they could glow and give a sanity boost or a mechanic that rewarded you for keeping your sanity up? I dunno, just give the items something else instead of extra durability and damage. 

[Vinja]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

I agree, I think that while planar damage’s execution isn’t perfect, the concept is fine. Instead of just replacing old weapons with new ones, now there’s more thought behind which weapons/armor you decide to use.

Take helmets for example. Before 99% of the time for combat you’d just use football helmets early-game, and thulecite crowns late-game. With the new bright shade helmets, instead of just replacing thulecite crowns entirely, they have their advantages and disadvantages. So while they’ll probably be objectively better for new post cc/fuelweaver content assuming more stuff will have planar damage, thul crowns aren’t made entirely redundant and pointless. 

I absolutely agree that we need more gear diversity in this game 100%. Everyone using football helmets/crowns and ham bats/dark swords all the time gets extremely repetitive.
 

The problem I have is that they aren’t trying to create diversity through having many types of weapons and armors that are all useful, unique, or different, something I would call “natural diversity”

They are trying to fabricate diversity by giving you literally the exact same weapon that you already have and saying “well the old one just doesn’t work on this guy” so now you’re forced into using a weapon that is functionally the exact same weapon as the one you just had but this one glows and has an admittedly extremely cool animation.

It’s not diversity it’s an illusion of diversity.

They’ve essentially just spray painted a dark sword and arbitrarily decided that non spray painted dark swords don’t work on the new plant. 

[GrapeVruit]

14 minutes ago, Vinja said:

And these are just ideas that we came up with in a moment, if you actually invested more time into coming up with new and refreshing ideas for weapons I’m sure Klei could come up with things that are way bettbettering 

I guess if I had to throw my own weapon idea in the ring, I think I'd be interesting if they made a brightshade whip that assisted in fighting enemies in groups. Make it like the tail o three cats and give it a 25% chance to strike nearby enemies with AoE damaging thorns that deal damage overtime and maybe even slow down enemies. 

 

[maxwell_winters]

4 minutes ago, Vinja said:

The problem I have is that they aren’t trying to create diversity through having many types of weapons and armors that are all useful, something I will call “natural diversity”

They added Eye Mask and Shield of Terror which you use for enemies that doesn't hit very hard or give an opportunity to quickly retreat. And it saves up on pig skins a lot, Dreadstone set is useful for bosses with avoidable attacks, and it also saves on Thulecite.

I disagree that there is no natural diversity with recent weapons and armor. Brightshade gear is an outlier and not a trend.

[Vinja]

11 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

They added Eye Mask and Shield of Terror which you use for enemies that doesn't hit very hard or give an opportunity to quickly retreat. And it saves up on pig skins a lot, Dreadstone set is useful for bosses with avoidable attacks, and it also saves on Thulecite.

I disagree that there is no natural diversity with recent weapons and armor. Brightshade gear is an outlier and not a trend.

Armor definitely has a bit more diversity than weapons but my point that weapons are extremely samey remains.

[maxwell_winters]

1 hour ago, Vinja said:

Armor definitely has a bit more diversity than weapons but my point that weapons are extremely samey remains.

 Klei didn't really try to diversify gear in DST until the Terraria crossover. We can run down the list of armor and weapons introduced in DST prior to that.

New Reign additions like Bee Queen Crown and Bone Helm aren't really valued because they're good as standalone armor. They are sanity tool first, armor second. Bone Armor is very nice, but very situational. Besides, all three of them should be used with another armor for safety reasons. Which makes the Shield of Terror the first good standalone armor introduced in DST. I forgot that Cookie Cutter Caps exist before checking the wiki, so not gonna comment on them. 

As for weapons. Tail o' Three Cats and Bull Kelp are gimmicky and situational. Strident Trident is gimmicky and situational and needs changes. Maybe an indirect change of making Gnarwail dens would suffice. Glass Cutters are the only worthy additions but they come with a very huge downside of not being prototypable.

I think it's too early to judge the weapon selection. I don't believe that Klei wants to keep the weapons samey. Diversifying them just hadn't been their priority until recently. First, they had to adapt the game to multiplayer, then they worked extensively on the ocean. This year seems pretty combat-focused so far, and we might get more weapon variety down the line.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Vinja said:

Armor definitely has a bit more diversity than weapons but my point that weapons are extremely samey remains.

This is partly because the weapons need heavier balance considers so as not to just trivalize combat. Realistically the only way we're getting majorly different combat is if we get a full combat rework which I'd argue we desperately need at the moment.

[Vinja]

56 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

 Klei didn't really try to diversify gear in DST until the Terraria crossover. We can run down the list of armor and weapons introduced in DST prior to that.

New Reign additions like Bee Queen Crown and Bone Helm aren't really valued because they're good as standalone armor. They are sanity tool first, armor second. Bone Armor is very nice, but very situational. Besides, all three of them should be used with another armor for safety reasons. Which makes the Shield of Terror the first good standalone armor introduced in DST. I forgot that Cookie Cutter Caps exist before checking the wiki, so not gonna comment on them. 

As for weapons. Tail o' Three Cats and Bull Kelp are gimmicky and situational. Strident Trident is gimmicky and situational and needs changes. Maybe an indirect change of making Gnarwail dens would suffice. Glass Cutters are the only worthy additions but they come with a very huge downside of not being prototypable.

I think it's too early to judge the weapon selection. I don't believe that Klei wants to keep the weapons samey. Diversifying them just hadn't been their priority until recently. First, they had to adapt the game to multiplayer, then they worked extensively on the ocean. This year seems pretty combat-focused so far, and we might get more weapon variety down the line.

It’s not too early don’t starve has been around for ten years and DST is pushing it lol. I have no idea what they have in store but I don’t need to be able to read minds to make the observation that the game could use some refreshing weapons and that the new sword they added isn’t it.
 

It’s functionally the exact same weapon that was in DS ten years ago with a new skin and the added “planar damage” mechanic to force you to use it because they know they haven’t done enough with the sword to warrant anyone using it otherwise. I think planar damage is a crutch and a slippery slope.

[PetulantPansy]

2 hours ago, Vinja said:

They are trying to fabricate diversity by giving you literally the exact same weapon that you already have and saying “well the old one just doesn’t work on this guy” so now you’re forced into using a weapon that is functionally the exact same weapon as the one you just had but this one glows and has an admittedly extremely cool animation.

It’s not diversity it’s an illusion of diversity.

They’ve essentially just spray painted a dark sword and arbitrarily decided that non spray painted dark swords don’t work on the new plant. 

I think you view it this way because the new sword's unique property only shines against 1 single mob. If it shined against 5-8 mobs/bosses that were key to game progression, im not so sure you would still hold such a view.

[Vinja]

40 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

I think you view it this way because the new sword's unique property only shines against 1 single mob. If it shined against 5-8 mobs/bosses that were key to game progression, im not so sure you would still hold such a view.

I was poking fun at the fact that the sword currently is a weed whack er because it’s funny. I realize they likely intend to add more enemies with the resistance mechanic they added. It doesn’t change the inherent flaw of the mechanic that I described. 
 

I could change the last sentence of that excerpt to 

“They’ve essentially just spray painted a dark sword and arbitrarily decided that non spray painted dark swords don’t work on this handful of mobs.”

And the argument would still hold firm.

[Yuuko]

48 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

I think you view it this way because the new sword's unique property only shines against 1 single mob. If it shined against 5-8 mobs/bosses that were key to game progression, im not so sure you would still hold such a view.

I think as long as it is clearly binary it is not a choice at all.

Thulecite club is a choice.  Its not very popular because there aren't many situations where it shines BUT it is a choice.  You use Thulecite Club if you want a bit more ms during your combat, or if the enemy is slow / stationary enough to let the tentacles chip in some extra damage.  A small buff could send Thulecite Club into the spotlight.

Batbat is a choice.  Its never going to be your main weapon, but if you want a bit of healing mid-combat without eating you swap to the batbat for a few swings to heal up and then switch back to a main damager weapon.  If healing wasn't as plentiful for most of the cast this might come up as an option more often.

Hambat is a choice.  At peak freshness its damage is quite good, and for all the swinging you can do before its freshness dropped it can be quite efficient.

The new sword is not a choice.  If you are fighting the new enemies you use it b/c its the weapon that actually does damage.

Worse is armor - where your armor value is completely ignored.  You can't choose to use a football helmet, log suit, thul crown, or any other piece of armor.  When you fight x mob you use x armor.  Its the exact opposite of a choice.

-------------------

Klei is trying to open up design space to create new gear but I really feel the current approach is going to sound great on paper, and maybe be interesting the first few times its used, but quickly feel worse for its lack of depth and choice.  As Mysterious box says:

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Realistically the only way we're getting majorly different combat is if we get a full combat rework which I'd argue we desperately need at the moment.

I'm sure Klei is doing the elemental thing to spice up combat but I think the better angle would be to rework mob attacks.  The framework is already there - dfly has a lunge, bee queen has a slow effect, rooks have had dashes forever - its just that most combat is extremely simple.  Spreading these mechanics around more so daily fights like spiders, frogs, hounds, beefs etc involve more then counting and stepping back would go a long way.

Planar damage doesn't have to be dumpstered but its binary implementation really needs to be rethought.  It is not going to change much about the game as it sits now.  Also being locked behind such a far-away goal as CC seems really weird to me...  I'd rather see this effort put into content people will see more often.

ps - also I'm really aggrieved that Klei is having planar damage bypass character perks.  If Wolfgang isn't a good character for a fight, then what identity does Wolfgang have anymore?

[Mike23Ua]

My understanding of Planar Defense is that exists to do two things..

1- It’s so newer enemy mobs don’t need 6000 hp to be considered a challenge requiring the use of a new tier of gear to make the fights go faster.

2- It’s so newer Weapons don’t need to be crazy over powered dealing insane damage on a high health new mob and thus also obliterating any mob that doesn’t have 6000hp.

Its a gimmicky way of adding new weapons and enemies without the weapons being too good, and without older weapons doing the job just fine enough that you never need the new ones.

I believe in this sense: That Planar Defense (and any other types of resistant measures they want to add) is a Good change to the game- actually encouraging Progression.

However… I hope they’ll also take this time to factor in Elemental Weaknesses, for example- Fighting Deerclops with an Ice Staff should be Highly Ineffective, but fight it’s Ice with fire.. and well you get the idea.

Fight Dragonfly in Summer and it’s most powerful, fight it in Spring and it’s vulnerable to electrical attacks.

I can only pray that Planar Defense leads to that.

And as far as wanting new weapons that do new things goes, I enjoy some of the combat mechanics that the Melee Weapons in Fortnite have used- for example last season we had a gigantic Hammer, but when using the Hammer it let out an AoE smash into the ground, but left the player temporarily vulnerable to taking damage as the force of the hammer smashing the ground lifted them up off the ground a bit for a second or two.

I would love to see something like that in DST, a ball on a chain (mace) with long range toss ability that smashes the ground but takes a few seconds to reel back to the player before it can be thrown again. (From a gameplay perspective it’d be about like using a fishing rod that once cast instantly starts reeling back in)

None of that Wanda Alarming Clock BS.. I want something with a large throwing range, but a heavy delay in returning back to use again.

All of this screams “Combat Update” But I believe DST COULD handle more complex Weaponry if Klei really wanted to mix the gameplay up a bit.

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would love to see something like that in DST, a ball on a chain (mace) with long range toss ability that smashes the ground but takes a few seconds to reel back to the player before it can be thrown again. (From a gameplay perspective it’d be about like using a fishing rod that once cast instantly starts reeling back in)

None of that Wanda Alarming Clock BS.. I want something with a large throwing range, but a heavy delay in returning back to use again.

All of this screams “Combat Update” But I believe DST COULD handle more complex Weaponry if Klei really wanted to mix the gameplay up a bit.

Wolfgang weights exist - but only for wolfgang and their damage sucks so much its practically a troll feature.  I think a lot of players would love something like a hammer throw type weapon where our character has a windup animation, and gets a ranged + aoe damage on hit.  It just has to be good, not troll like tossing weights and most of Walter's ammo.

[Mysterious box]

48 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Also being locked behind such a far-away goal as CC seems really weird to me...  I'd rather see this effort put into content people will see more often.

The reason I'd imagine it's like this because there's always massive push back by the community that the base experience is already too hard so content related to combat on the mainland needs to be completely optional and out of sight. On the other hand there's a side of the community that's tired of new content being locked to content islands so as not to disrupt the status quo. So Kiel probably figured the best way to please most people is to put major mainland changes behind the end game.

[Mike23Ua]

44 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Wolfgang weights exist - but only for wolfgang and their damage sucks so much its practically a troll feature.  I think a lot of players would love something like a hammer throw type weapon where our character has a windup animation, and gets a ranged + aoe damage on hit.  It just has to be good, not troll like tossing weights and most of Walter's ammo.

Actually I was very specifically thinking about took from Hood Outlaws & Legends when I made this weapon Suggestion.

Spoiler may be slightly graphic, 

Spoiler

 

But that’s generally where the concept of a ball on a chain with a large tossing distance but slow return back comes from. In general- I would love to see new weapon types that behave differently in DST.

I never got to play the forge, but people claim it had a very different combat to it. So apparently Klei has fooled around with more in-depth unique combat at some point in DS/DSTs life-time.

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The reason I'd imagine it's like this because there's always massive push back by the community that the base experience is already too hard so content related to combat on the mainland needs to be completely optional and out of sight. On the other hand there's a side of the community that's tired of new content being locked to content islands so as not to disrupt the status quo. So Kiel probably figured the best way to please most people is to put major mainland changes behind the end game.

This is flawed though, cause if a very skilled player who knows what they’re doing joins the game- they can quite literally force New Game + onto people who weren’t prepared for it.

I for one liked the idea of the world getting harder on each player “Individually” based on how long they had managed to stay alive.

For example- if I’ve survived 200 days and a hound wave is about to start but someone else has just joined and only survived 2, then the hounds ignore them and go after me.

With this Forced End Game (or NG+ rather..) you can’t really do that, unless Klei wants to somehow factor in who’s been alive longer and force the new content to target them over fresh joining players.

In this scenario- Putting harder content out on its own little island somewhere was a good choice.

However.. people want new seasons, and a world that progressively climbs in difficulty the longer you’ve been alive- Not by the completely optional challenge someone ELSE can force upon you.

Thats how DS worked wasnt it? Survive Autumn then Winter shows up to challenge you, survive winter long enough and Deerclops shows up to attempt to end that survival, survive Winter and then drown in endless rainfall with frogs falling from the heavens, survive that and your rewarded with watching the world go up in a blazing inferno in summer.

I don’t think Klei’s new idea of progression (doing quests, killing bosses) is what fans of the game had in mind when they said they wanted new things that will challenge them the longer they have managed to stay alive.

”Through the Ages” is what fans had in mind.. not having someone join their game & rush the End Game onto everyone else as fast as possible.

[abrocator]

11 hours ago, Malfario said:

Lets take for example the Bat bat, it´s concept it´s great but the dps loss from a better weapon makes it not worth the trouble unless you are playing wormwood or wes,

The fact that you have to balance damage loss with other concerns is what makes it interesting.

Can you wear the bone armor all the time? No, because some enemies attack too fast. Can you just wear the eyemask all the time? Not if you are tanking a lot of damage. Then you should use something that you can make more of on the go. Marble suit? Not unless you are tanking/stationary/Wolfgang.

Quote

, but what if instead of only having the bat bat we had Vampirism damage, that make it so the weapon cure the player every time they hit and the higher vampirism dmg the weapon has the more it cured per hit landed.

So what if instead of giving the player health, it “cured” you (gave you health?)?

Oh, so the point is simply that that it does the same thing but there’s some stat that makes it good at “vampirism”?

But what’s the point? You haven’t introduced anything new. No new mechanic. You’re just hinting at some RPG-like item progression.

11 hours ago, Malfario said:

, not to mention weapons that have multiple kinds of dmgs, or items like hats, helmets or amulets that gave the player extra kinds of dmgs or transformed kinds of dmgs of a weapon into other kinds of dmgs.

An RTS often has a “rock paper scissor“ kind of design since you are playing against other players and you need to adapt to what they are doing.

But this is 99% a PvE game. What does different kinds of damage accomplish? Right now nothing, since it’s just being used as some kind of arbitrary late-gate segmentation.

The nice thing about this game is that it has emergent gameplay depth where the more experience you gain the more you are able to predict and adapt to situation. Like this scenario:

• You are on the Ocean
• You are on a boat with a firepit because it’s winter
• You brought thulecite armor because bone armor isn’t good enough against shark burst attack
• You brought a pan flute in case of a pirate raid
• You brought some bananas in a bundling wrap because—again—possible pirate raids
• You left your bee queen crown at shore because Deerclops can’t walk on water
• You are using a boat without sails because you don’t have sanity food and Wavy Jones could mess with you
• You brought boat patches because you know you tend to be a bit reckless about boating in unexplored waters at night

None of these things are direct, in-your-face counters.

But with this damage stat nonsense you get no new emergent strategizing. You just get:

• I’m going into the Fire Zone so I need my Fire Weapons
• I’m going into the Air Zone so I need my Air Weapons
• I’m going into the Earth Zone so I need my Earth Weapons

These are just direct counters. Unnecessary, boring, and just design bloat.

[Malfario]

23 minutes ago, abrocator said:

The fact that you have to balance damage loss with other concerns is what makes it interesting.

Can you wear the bone armor all the time? No, because some enemies attack too fast. Can you just wear the eyemask all the time? Not if you are tanking a lot of damage. Then you should use something that you can make more of on the go. Marble suit? Not unless you are tanking/stationary/Wolfgang.

I dont get what you mean with all these examples, i havent mentioned anything about always having effects on, my point os to add more complexity to the current system expanding it but keeping its roots.

And yes the bat bat is an interesting item, but that doesnt mean its good or usable, precisly because you sacrifice so much it doesn make it worth it on most situations.

28 minutes ago, abrocator said:

So what if instead of giving the player health, it “cured” you (gave you health?)?

Oh, so the point is simply that that it does the same thing but there’s some stat that makes it good at “vampirism”?

But what’s the point? You haven’t introduced anything new. No new mechanic. You’re just hinting at some RPG-like item progression.

i believe that what i am describing is a mechanic, and regarding about my example with vampirism.

What i meant its that we could have different weapons that had dffferent levels of vampirism instead of one unique option , to make the posibility of healing throu fightng more versatile. An example of how this could work:

"Weapon A" has 20 regular damage and 30 vamp dmg and "weapon B" only has 50 vamp dmg, eventhough both items have the same dps one will cure more than the other becaue it has more vamp dmg.

30 minutes ago, abrocator said:

But this is 99% a PvE game. What does different kinds of damage accomplish? Right now nothing, since it’s just being used as some kind of arbitrary late-gate segmentation.

it accomplish a way to introduce new mechanics, what i mean with diferent kinds of dmgs is for new weapons effects, again some examples:

Shadow dmg, it multiplys itself depending on the players sanity

Posion dmg, make it so the enemys starts loosing extra health and the more consecutive hits you land the more poison they get but vanishes short after stop hitting

Druidic dmg, it gets buffed everytime you eat a dish but make it so all healing items works backwards.

etc etc.

40 minutes ago, abrocator said:

The nice thing about this game is that it has emergent gameplay depth where the more experience you gain the more you are able to predict and adapt to situation. Like this scenario:

I dont see how anything of what i said interferes with this, you have a fight when you get a lot of time to hit the boss, you could use druidic dmg, you are on a situation where you have only a small window of action, you could use weapons with shadow dmg and bone helmet to boost it as much as posible, i am on a situation where i can not use healing food, use vamp dmg etc etc.

Again the introduction of new kinds of dmgs dont difer that much from the essence of dst, sure they are different from what we are used to but i think we should let the system evolve into new paths.

[abrocator]

11 minutes ago, Malfario said:

I dont get what you mean with all these examples, i havent mentioned anything about always having effects on, my point os to add more complexity to the current system expanding it but keeping its roots.

The problem with your OP is that you give one single example, and that example already exists in the game! So it isn’t even a new mechanic.

But now that you have mentioned poison and druidic magic I’m not opposed to the principle at all, since these are new mechanics in DST. (Not that that could be guessed from the OP.)

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

for one liked the idea of the world getting harder on each player “Individually” based on how long they had managed to stay alive.

For example- if I’ve survived 200 days and a hound wave is about to start but someone else has just joined and only survived 2, then the hounds ignore them and go after me.

This is impossible to do on a large scale.

 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

this scenario- Putting harder content out on its own little island somewhere was a good choice.

It's not though just creates loot islands which is all the lunar island and  moon quay really are both are very interesting concepts contained on islands where they rot specifically because they're on islands.

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

However.. people want new seasons, and a world that progressively climbs in difficulty the longer you’ve been alive- Not by the completely optional challenge someone ELSE can force upon you.

Thats how DS worked wasnt it? Survive Autumn then Winter shows up to challenge you, survive winter long enough and Deerclops shows up to attempt to end that survival, survive Winter and then drown in endless rainfall with frogs falling from the heavens, survive that and your rewarded with watching the world go up in a blazing inferno in summer.

I don’t think Klei’s new idea of progression (doing quests, killing bosses) is what fans of the game had in mind when they said they wanted new things that will challenge them the longer they have managed to stay alive.

”Through the Ages” is what fans had in mind.. not having someone join their game & rush the End Game onto everyone else as fast as possible

But there's a problem here there's a side of the community that says the games already too hard while I don't hold that opinion going forward with this would definitely cause a lot of people with that mindset to be upset which is why the current way of implementing it is the best it's a compromise but it avoids telling either side of the community they're wrong. Do I like it not really I prefer the early game loop also be spiced up but I also understand if not for this loot box Islands will be our only fate. In another sense the game has been given a ceiling  on what the early game can be so it requires a endgame to expand on it.

[PetulantPansy]

4 hours ago, Vinja said:

I was poking fun at the fact that the sword currently is a weed whack er because it’s funny. I realize they likely intend to add more enemies with the resistance mechanic they added. It doesn’t change the inherent flaw of the mechanic that I described. 
 

I could change the last sentence of that excerpt to 

“They’ve essentially just spray painted a dark sword and arbitrarily decided that non spray painted dark swords don’t work on this handful of mobs.”

And the argument would still hold firm.

It would, but this is literally game progression. Every existing weapon in the arsenal can be crafted in the first 20 days. Then you can never progress any further from a damage output perspective outside of switching characters or cooking up volt goat jelly and dealing with wet mobs. In might not make a lot of sense in its current form since there's only 1 weapon designed for 1 mob, but I at least would give it a shot.

 

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Klei is trying to open up design space to create new gear but I really feel the current approach is going to sound great on paper, and maybe be interesting the first few times its used, but quickly feel worse for its lack of depth and choice. 

Right, and I've been saying all along that Klei will likely build out more content around this, so the lack of depth and choice is just a transitory inconvenience,

ps. wolfgang is so much more than just a combat character. He's one of the most efficient resource gathering characters and also a good sailor. 

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Also being locked behind such a far-away goal as CC seems really weird to me...  I'd rather see this effort put into content people will see more often.

The implementation isn't getting appreciated enough. People have been asking for over a year for more meaningful content and more challenges. They found a way to insert more challenging content without overwhelming your dst noob who has under 100 hours. And it's also at a variable time based on player progress. DST already has a ton of content and if you can't kill CC, is it really a good idea to start throwing tougher gameplay at players? Some people still understandably find DST to be challenging as-is.