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My feedback on Wilson Don't Starve rework + new boss


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First up, what I like:

  • I think the new boss itself looks pretty cool, although you could easily argue that it's just a big werepig, I think werepigs are cool so no complaints from me.

 

  • I think both the knockback and crater attacks are visually and mechanically interesting, although I think the knockback one feels too untelegraphed compared to the crater one, which is silly given the crater one is meant to be "harder".

 

  • I think the summoning method is very interesting, and I really enjoy having to kill the nightmare creatures harrassing the pig.

 

  • I think that the skill tree mechanic is a really good compromise between the people who wanted wilson to be "basic", and those who wanted a "real" rework.

 

Now onto what I think could use some work:

Spawning the boss

  • I'm assuming that there's a good chance this will be changed in the final product, but the pig spawning in the middle of nowhere looks incredibly out of place and bizzare. At the very least he should be limited to gloomier biomes like the spider forest, and/or given his own setpiece.

 

  • More of a minor suggestion, but it would be cool if Merm Guards were able to mine the pillars since it seems Wolfgang is able to do so with mighty mode, just make it so they only mine a pillar in response to a pillar being mined, rather than random rocks.

Boss drops

  • The drops are insanely bad on so many fronts.

 

  • First of all, the art for them looks awful. I really don't want to be too harsh here, but it looks like some sort of missing texture with the black and magenta combo, and uses the already strange looking style of the obsidian items in shipwrecked, as well as the hat looking downright goofy in terms of shape. They don't feel at all like drops you would get from a giant werepig.

 

  • They're also not at all worth both the admission fee of a pick/axe, as well as the need to fight this boss. Why would I fight a boss that requires me to go to the ruins in order to obtain armour that is essentially just the nightmare fuel armour but with some more durability? The only way I forsee this armour being useful is if it is made refuelable, or if the resources required to craft it will be made relatively trivial to obtain through other means. If the resources are exclusive to the boss, I fail to see why we need two seperate resources to make it to begin with.

Wilson Don't Starve

  • I think the way inspiration is gained is dumb. In my opinion, the big benefit of such a system is that it allows new players to progressively learn the game, and I think that forcing players to wait out the clock is not a good way to encourage players to engage with the content on offer. In my opinion, it would be much better to reward inspiration points for doing basic tasks associated with the game, such as crafting a torch at night, crafting a thermal stone during winter, making your first science machine/alchemy engine, etc.

 

  • To add onto the above, you could even tie the rewards to the quest completed. Made a thermal stone? Choose a beard perk. Made your first torch? Choose a torch perk. These rewards could encourage players to engage with the items that the quests have them craft, as they'd feel more "special" thanks to the buff players earned themselves.

 

  • Yes, experienced players will breeze through these quests in no time, but they're not the target demographic here. I don't think anything is gained by forcing players to just wait around for their skills to show up, especially when some of those skills might directly translate into gameplay. It takes until winter for you to even be able to max out beard insulation, which just feels a little silly to me.

 

I also have a couple of minor gripes with the current perks:

  • IMO the torch perks should also affect the lantern. Whilst I think the idea of a torch being a more viable light source than the lantern on a character is a cool idea, it doesn't sit right with me for the tutorial/basic character to be the one with that power. I see so many new players having trouble with light because they don't realise the lantern exists, and I don't think wilson should be encouraging that sort of playstyle. To me this would be like making wilson only eat meat/veggies/crockpot foods - it sets a precedent that ONLY holds true for him, and discourages engaging with the item that is useful to every other character.

 

  • I do not think the gem values work out at all.
    • First of all, blue and red gems should not be valued differently. blue gems are not worth more than red gems, and any exchange between the two should be symetrical, whether that be a free 1:1 trade, or at a loss via conversion.
    • I also do not think it's a good idea to explicitly value ruins gems differently. Are green gems the most valuable in practice? Yes, but that's because A: This is only true of yellow gems when you have enough star caller staves and everyone has their own magiluminescence and B: because the Lazy deserter is useless to many players, and the lazy explorer isn't convinient to use on a regular basis due to teleports not being as long lasting in terms of benefit as dwarf stars are.
    • If you allowed lazy deserters to teleport players between them solo, or allowed the lazy explorer to be refueled with orange gems, I guarantee orange gems would be seen as the second most if not the most useful gem.
    • In my opinion, ruins gems should either be transformable 1:1 (i.e green->orange->yellow->green), or at a loss (2 of 1 colour to make 1 of a different colour)
    • I think 3 purple gems might be too cheap for a ruins gem, but I'm unsure as to what a fair price would even be.

 

Bugs:

  • All creatures ignore boss completely, even they are a follower, or if they get attacked. The only response to the boss I have seen is bunnies getting scared of it when it presumably did some sort of roar/enrage.
    • If this is intentional, it should be changed, as it makes absolutely no sense. Right now everything just flat out ignores the attacks of this thing.
  • Throwing a torch as wilson with a skin makes it invisible when it lands.
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1 hour ago, Masked Koopa said:
  • Speaking of which, the armour being locked behind wilson's final tier is bizzare on a level that I cannot comprehend. Unless this boss is intended to be wilson-exclusive content, there's absolutely no reason why it should require wilson to craft the reward for killing the boss.

 

Could you explain what you mean by Wilson's final tier? You can get the horror fuel from killing the boss and the dreadstone by having the boss knockdown the pillars during the fight (in the second stage, when it hammers the ground).

1 hour ago, Masked Koopa said:

All creatures ignore boss completely, even they are a follower, or if they get attacked. The only response to the boss I have seen is bunnies getting scared of it when it presumably did some sort of roar/enrage.

  •  

 

Tested this with abigail, houndius, and catapult. The only way it "worked" was using a catapult to hit chester and allowing the splash damage to damage the boss. Maybe it's intentional because devs are intending it to be like a nightmare creature (lorewise)?

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4 minutes ago, JuneBot said:

Could you explain what you mean by Wilson's final tier? You can get the horror fuel from killing the boss and the dreadstone by having the boss knockdown the pillars during the fight (in the second stage, when it hammers the ground).

Oh ok, I was under the impression that the only way to obtain it was by having wilson craft it. Good to know!

4 minutes ago, JuneBot said:

Tested this with abigail, houndius, and catapult. The only way it "worked" was using a catapult to hit chester and allowing the splash damage to damage the boss. Maybe it's intentional because devs are intending it to be like a nightmare creature (lorewise)?

The thing with that is that all other nightmare creatures cannot hit non-players either. The only exception to this rule is the shadow pieces, which can followers can interact with just fine.

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I think the gems crafts should be around:

-3 red gems into 2 blue gems and 3 blue gems into 2 red gems.

-3 reds to 1 purple and 3 blues to 1 purple.

-5 purple gems into 1 ruins gem.

-2 yellow/orange gems into 1 orange/yellow gems.

-3 yellow/orange gems into 1 green gem.

1 green gem into 1 orange or yellow.

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I agree on the gem conversion thing. Honestly blue/red gems are of equal value to me, even though my playstyle usually has me storing up more blues than reds. And as mentioned elsewhere, turning gold to nitre would be a nice boon as well.

Torch perks could definitely use a buff yes, but I'm fine with it staying on the torch. Buffing the most basic item for the basic character sounds like a match to me. Gem transmutation is amazing, but also makes him a stop n' swap character like Winona where you swap to him, do his thing, swap back to someone else and enjoy what he left you. Buffing the torch to be better than the lantern for him only sounds like one way to make him more desirable as a play character rather than a swap character.

No comment on beard perks beyond haha that's funny I like.

No comment on boss fight/loot. I don't tend to fight bosses often so I'll leave that commentary to the pros.

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The body armor is decent as it can be duped but I don't see anyone going out of their way to kill the boss multiple times for it. The reason why the head armor isn't good is just because thulecite crown is just a better option while the same can't be said about body armor.

I don't think that the boss is going to fit anywhere on the surface, he should have been in the caves in the rocky plains or mushtree forest. The surface forest has too many trees so you wouldn't be able to kite him.

Gem transmutation should stay the same as I feel like he doesn't need to be able to transmute red/blue 1:1 ratio in most situations you will just craft purple gems yourself and transmute from there.

I agree with everything else in the thread, there are some really good suggestions like Wilson's encouragement to use torches is too much when the optimal play is to always get lantern in the first few days.

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I thought the new armor is a good pre-ruins alternative to the thulecite armor. But then I found out that most characters need to go to the ruins to get the pick/axe, of all things, to even fight the boss. It makes no sense to me. If you go to the ruins anyway, you might as well get thulecite suits and crowns. 

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I clearly remember, I think it was a discussion on design philosophy in the early stages of development of Don't Starve, that achievements were actually detrimental to the "figure it out" nature that DS was going for. They can be too hand-holdy and were only introduced (on said system) because Playstation or Xbox requires achievements for the games added.
I will see if I can find the clip that mentions achievements but in the initial creation of the beloved game, achievements were intentionally not included. Adding them to Wilson's refresh while it seems would be a great way to introduce players to the game, it can be an unintentional tactic of "collect the achievements then quit the game".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEeO8WhxmQ   Start at 6:36 | Also around 10 minutes

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3 hours ago, Evelo said:

I clearly remember, I think it was a discussion on design philosophy in the early stages of development of Don't Starve, that achievements were actually detrimental to the "figure it out" nature that DS was going for. They can be too hand-holdy and were only introduced (on said system) because Playstation or Xbox requires achievements for the games added.
I will see if I can find the clip that mentions achievements but in the initial creation of the beloved game, achievements were intentionally not included. Adding them to Wilson's refresh while it seems would be a great way to introduce players to the game, it can be an unintentional tactic of "collect the achievements then quit the game".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEeO8WhxmQ   Start at 6:36 | Also around 10 minutes

The game was a very different beast at that point, with a lack of any truly over-arching goal and a relatively sparese amount of content, making it difficult to encourage players to enjoy the content the game had on offer. If you tell someone to survive until winter or craft x items, then yes, they will probably not do a lot. But if you tell them to beat CC or FW, I seriously doubt every player will go "welp, I beat the game, time to quit" after having learned and played the game to the point of being able to complete those tasks. Some of them might, but noone is going to play the game indefinitely anyway, as much as I'm sure klei wants them to.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure klei themselves have acknowleged that this design philosophy was not nessecarily applicable to the game in it's later stages themselves, although I'm not well versed in every thing klei has ever said.

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