KLEI, pls update Smart Storage Bin

[GodIess]

I started doing automation and I became interested in using smart storage, after reading the information in the game and watching the video, I realized that this is a very useless thing that can be used in very few places. In addition to the fact that it consumes 60W constantly, it does not have the ability to adjust the lower and upper thresholds, as is the case with water storage or batteries.

Here's what I suggest:
- Consume 60W only during state change (Green signal -60W, change to red -60W)
- Add lower and upper threshold. The storage will send a red signal when it has reached the maximum and will continue to do so until it reaches the minimum.

For example, I want the Duplicant to make 1t of sand and until this amount is used up, do not start producing a new one.
Or store the plastic in storage and send a signal to land the rocket when the stock reaches 0 so that the duplicates do not remain in orbit and you do not have to check how much stock is left each time

Setting the value to 100 and 99 will work like the old one

[Alex_D]

I'd like to add (and please disregard if it's just me), that my dupes like to grab items from a normal storage bin and dump things into the smart storage bin, even if both have the same priority. I'd imagine dupes would choose the bin that's closest for storing things, but to me it seems they prioritize the smart over the dumb bin.

[Mastermindx]

55 minutes ago, Alex_D said:

I'd like to add (and please disregard if it's just me), that my dupes like to grab items from a normal storage bin and dump things into the smart storage bin, even if both have the same priority. I'd imagine dupes would choose the bin that's closest for storing things, but to me it seems they prioritize the smart over the dumb bin.

To be fair, bins overall are lacking in terms of customization in general.

My understand of the mechanic might be flawed, but my understanding is : 

Bin priority not only dictate how important they are compared to one another, they also dictate how important picking debris of the type accepted by the bin is.

Bin only have a "Max capacity" setting, and no "required capacity" setting. Which means that, if there is 20 kg missing from bin at one end of the map in a priority 9 bin, a dupe will go at the other end of the map, pick up 20kg from a priority 1 bin and bring it all the way back to the priority 9 bin. *facepalm*

The 2nd point is especially annoying since a dupe can carry over 1 ton and if we could tune things up to ensure transfers always occurs at max capacity, that would cause 98% less trip to achieve the same result.

Someday, maybe...

[hydrotoast]

I agree that the 60 W cost of powering a smart storage bin is awful. However, for the the high-low thresholds seen in reservoirs, we can simulate the behavior with a pair of smart storage bins (which costs 120 W of course). I have an example on the Discord using fridges and smart storage bins because they have the same automation behavior. Perhaps this may help.

Problem. Consider a food supply s stored in fridges that we want to maintain between a low threshold L and high threshold H. Automate food production (cooking) to enable production when food supply falls below the low threshold (s < L) and disable production when supply rises above the high threshold (s > H).

Background. Recall two important points about fridges: 1) they have a single output signal that emits green when the fridge is full and 2) they have a configurable max capacity.

Proposition. We only need two fridges: a primary A and an overflow B.

1. configure A with max capacity L and configure B with max capacity H - L.
2. set the storage priority on A higher than the storage priority on B so that duplicants and sweepers will refill A before B.
3. use a memory toggle that is SET when A is not full (red) and RESET when B is full.

See the figures below for the full system.

Figure 1. Expanded automation with annotations on fridges A and B.

Figure 2. Compact version.

Key Result. If a smart storage building, e.g. smart-storage-bin, offers at least a single output signal for fullness/emptiness and a configurable capacity, then we can simulate hysteresis on the supply s between a low threshold s < L and a high threshold s < H using only two copies of the storage building and a memory toggle.

Additional notes.

• to automate the rebalancing, we use an autosweeper;
• to control dupe access patterns, consider using doors;
• to save power, consider using timers or switching to weight plates;

Figure 3. Example with rock crusher.

Discussion. These designs solve similar problems to the designs for deep freezers, so it is worth adapting them as inspiration. It is interesting to see that the challenges of storage management (e.g. deep freezers, smart storage) yield clever designs that may not have existed if hysteresis thresholds were as simple as reservoirs.

[JRup]

It's not the first time a plea for smarter storage bins and fridges has been made...
 

Spoiler

 

Another implementation of dynamic storage thrown into a slightly more classic video can be found here. Note that this is before the existence of timer sensors so the actual timers were manually thrown together to achieve the needed effect. Adjust as needed.

Enjoy a bit of a blast to the past:

 

[GodIess]

19 hours ago, JRup said:

It's not the first time a plea for smarter storage bins and fridges has been made...
 

  Hide contents

 

Another implementation of dynamic storage thrown into a slightly more classic video can be found here. Note that this is before the existence of timer sensors so the actual timers were manually thrown together to achieve the needed effect. Adjust as needed.

Enjoy a bit of a blast to the past:

 

still a little different. here we do not do it until it is full, but it is worth doing it 99% as soon as it starts again. I would like to be able to start when all supplies are gone

[GodIess]

22 hours ago, hydrotoast said:

I agree that the 60 W cost of powering a smart storage bin is awful. However, for the the high-low thresholds seen in reservoirs, we can simulate the behavior with a pair of smart storage bins (which costs 120 W of course). I have an example on the Discord using fridges and smart storage bins because they have the same automation behavior. Perhaps this may help.

Problem. Consider a food supply s stored in fridges that we want to maintain between a low threshold L and high threshold H. Automate food production (cooking) to enable production when food supply falls below the low threshold (s < L) and disable production when supply rises above the high threshold (s > H).

Background. Recall two important points about fridges: 1) they have a single output signal that emits green when the fridge is full and 2) they have a configurable max capacity.

Proposition. We only need two fridges: a primary A and an overflow B.

1. configure A with max capacity L and configure B with max capacity H - L.
2. set the storage priority on A higher than the storage priority on B so that duplicants and sweepers will refill A before B.
3. use a memory toggle that is SET when A is not full (red) and RESET when B is full.

See the figures below for the full system.

Figure 1. Expanded automation with annotations on fridges A and B.

Figure 2. Compact version.

Key Result. If a smart storage building, e.g. smart-storage-bin, offers at least a single output signal for fullness/emptiness and a configurable capacity, then we can simulate hysteresis on the supply s between a low threshold s < L and a high threshold s < H using only two copies of the storage building and a memory toggle.

Additional notes.

• to automate the rebalancing, we use an autosweeper;
• to control dupe access patterns, consider using doors;
• to save power, consider using timers or switching to weight plates;

Figure 3. Example with rock crusher.

Discussion. These designs solve similar problems to the designs for deep freezers, so it is worth adapting them as inspiration. It is interesting to see that the challenges of storage management (e.g. deep freezers, smart storage) yield clever designs that may not have existed if hysteresis thresholds were as simple as reservoirs.

thank u i did it:

Smart: 1kg plastic and 1 priority
Bin: 100kg and 9 priority
when the rocket lands there will be a reset and when the Dupl uses 1kg I will get a message

[GodIess]

Ideal

[hydrotoast]

Nice. I like the clever use of a normal storage bin to reduce the power cost.

For your system, I think the priorities should be reversed:

• Smart: 1 kg and priority 9;
• Bin: 100 kg and priority 1;

Dupes may take plastic from either bin, but they prefer to fill the bin with higher priority first.

Without an autosweeper, consider using a FILTER-gate (e.g. 25 s) after the NOT-gate because dupes need some time to rebalance the bins if they take plastic from the smart bin.

[Bluefoxfire]

And here I am only using it as a more heat conductive version of normal bins. Nice for cooling various debris that have gotten too hot to safely just leave around.

[GodIess]

11 hours ago, hydrotoast said:

Nice. I like the clever use of a normal storage bin to reduce the power cost.

For your system, I think the priorities should be reversed:

• Smart: 1 kg and priority 9;
• Bin: 100 kg and priority 1;

Dupes may take plastic from either bin, but they prefer to fill the bin with higher priority first.

Without an autosweeper, consider using a FILTER-gate (e.g. 25 s) after the NOT-gate because dupes need some time to rebalance the bins if they take plastic from the smart bin.

i set priority 9 but they always took from smart so i changed. I will continue to test this circuit. Another option is to prohibit them from stacking things.

[GodIess]

13 hours ago, hydrotoast said:

Nice. I like the clever use of a normal storage bin to reduce the power cost.

For your system, I think the priorities should be reversed:

• Smart: 1 kg and priority 9;
• Bin: 100 kg and priority 1;

Dupes may take plastic from either bin, but they prefer to fill the bin with higher priority first.

Without an autosweeper, consider using a FILTER-gate (e.g. 25 s) after the NOT-gate because dupes need some time to rebalance the bins if they take plastic from the smart bin.

I have experimented and I can say that it does not work. i always get the message. Even using buffer and filter doesn't help. with S - 1 and B - 9, they can inadvertently take from S in 1 priority and not put it in place. and if you do the opposite, then they always take from S and sometimes they may not put it in place, and this will again lead to a message. This is the most stable option: S - 9 and a 100s filter

[GodIess]

it's work

[melquiades]

A mod was developed to cover storage hysteresis, but no luck with crafting hysteresis yet, these designs will have to do in the meanwhile. Thanks!