Did Maxwell's Rework Land At Perfect Balance?

[Ohan]

On 11/26/2022 at 9:22 PM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

If you wanna use max spells you need to affort the sanity cost by farming food or dealing with shadows

Or waiting for his free built-in tamoshanter (combined with an actual tam for whopping ~13,4 san/min or not) to push him over his low insanity threshold. 

And even when ur insane as max, natural insanity nightmare spawning is extremely forgiving since they spawn so infrequently most of the time. Thats the entire reason why they gave wickerbottom the new downside. Max shouldve gotten a new downside too. 

On 11/26/2022 at 9:22 PM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i think is fine, is kinda like woodie, the perk brings downsides.

Woodie’s system of costs tied to using his powers is much more severe than maxwell’s for a much more understated payoff as well. 

everything max does is borderline free and effortless which is what “ruined” the refresh for me.

Fun mechanics, but too cheap and easy to be satisfying. Everything is given to the player. 

On 11/28/2022 at 5:08 PM, Pig Princess said:

Everything encyclopedia is very useful in early game, and even in the mid-game can still benefit the player. Examples of use: to prototype moggles without spending resources on prototype station, to prototype things like piggyback, (glossammer) saddle and miner hat on the go.

The encyc has 3 uses and is -33 sanity each use. Early game, when u still need to unlock alch recipes, means pre-bookcase to me so no recharge. 

do you really burn reeds (and sanity) in the first autumn ahead of winter on alchemy engine recipes as wickerbottom? Science machine costs next to nothing. Especially if ur recycling it. 

when playing solo encyc is just a magic stations skip imo but with -33 sanity for each recipe. Can situationally be nice for unlocking a few things earlier than usual depending on ur playstyle (if u want d-sword). As a beef rusher and STS enjoyer the first magic item i end up unlocking is one man band in spring for farming lol. 

I end up never building shadow manip or think tank but thats just for fun and because i want to use books not because its a good idea 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Or waiting for his free built-in tamoshanter (combined with an actual tam for whopping ~13,4 san/min or not) to push him over his low insanity threshold. 

And even when ur insane as max, natural insanity nightmare spawning is extremely forgiving since they spawn so infrequently most of the time. Thats the entire reason why they gave wickerbottom the new downside. Max shouldve gotten a new downside too. 

sure, i would love to see you waiting to restore the sanity with his perk during a boss fight

13 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Woodie’s system of costs tied to using his powers is much more severe than maxwell’s for a much more understated payoff as well. 

dont compare. Woodie is cheaper but riskier and work in a different way like woodie being able to tank, run over the water and chop for almost free, when is not transformed he has regular stats instead of 75hp (suuuure, 75hp isnt a downside cuz here we all have 2k elo). Shall we compare max with wolf? no, there shouldnt be strict balance between characters. Is not a pvp game

15 minutes ago, Ohan said:

everything max does is borderline free and effortless which is what “ruined” the refresh for me.

if you think that max perks are free means that you didnt played the rework that much. I never farmed that much nightmere fuel and i was always low on it. I came out of the ruins with 2 stack and half and wasted 1 entire stack in less than 10 days while picking a forest chopped by bearger and killed the treeguards spawned by him. In boss fights happens the same, you pay for having more power. Is strong in some fights but expensive compared to other sources of damage and perks

 

[Ohan]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

dont compare.

You literally started it 

[Pig Princess]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

do you really burn reeds (and sanity) in the first autumn ahead of winter on alchemy engine recipes as wickerbottom?

Wickerbottom starts with 2 papyrus which is enough for 1 book, and if I plan to craft more books/bookcase (which I usually do) I would have to farm extra reeds anyway. Since I'm going to pick reeds for mass-crafting books anyway, I might as well use initial papyrus for early game benefit (and free inventory space of otherwise dead weight in the form of papyrus), otherwise it's value diminishes by the time I mass-pick reeds.

I'm not a fan of STS, at least I find single book not that useful, especially compared to pan flute. Even on public server without pan flute available (majority of the time) I don't see much benefit of having STS very early, and by the time I might need it (for fighting Dragonfly, for example) I'll find swamp anyway.

Even without recharge EE has 2 uses (and one can preserve book) or 3 uses if one is content with breaking it. Those 2-3 crafts can be really annoying ones, like moggles, prestihatitator (EE allows to skip it), glossammer saddle (or even regular saddle), mineral hat. It's true that science machine is very cheap, in fact relocation costs 2 logs and 2 rocks, but that means I have to dedicate space for logs and rocks, and I don't carry those all the time. I'm planning what happens in my inventory precisely to the point of single rock or log in order to have maximum amount of space available for resources. Sometimes I include rebuilding science machine in my strategy (with last rebuild consuming last resources and freeing inventory space), and I like that there are at least 2 ways to enhance Wickerbottom's early game. Both ways have their benefits (inventory space vs material's cost), but I just like to multitask a lot and thus value extra space more. I'm Wilba enjoyer after all, which in my case translates into exceeling in inventory management and being picky about filling it.

Edit: I completely forgot to address sanity cost. I don't mind, I'm usually at low sanity anyway during early days, and since I'm usually rushing ruins and crafting shadow manipulator early I usually have use for extra nightmare fuel. Plus it's 2-3 extra shadows per book, and I don't craft more than 2-5 things that way before bookcase and better means (in their own way) of managing sanity.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

53 minutes ago, Ohan said:

You literally started it 

ye xD but i was talking about the concept not the numbers

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Is not a pvp game

Not a good excuse to not balance the "actual" characters.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

28 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Not a good excuse to not balance the "actual" characters.

there arent a reason to make them all equally. Other thing is to not release crazy stuff like a character one shotting bosses or chopping and entire forest with one axe swing for example but why would be wes as stronger as wolfgang? or do wolfgang need to be reduced to wes level? is a sand box with a rich character selection, one of the richer character selection i know in the videogame history if you ask me. There are characters for different playstyles, experience and preference, balancing them like in a pvp game would ruin it. Again, like in a pvp game where are characters should have a ~50% win rate to be considered balanced

if a character needs a nerf or a buff should be only because how their state affects how fun they can be and how stupid can make dealing with the game

[Wonz]

Balanced around who? Wilson? If it's relatively to wilson then big no, he's extremelly overpowered compared to him.