Im not normally the guy to suggest buffs but…

[Copyafriend]

-The area where the shadow gear applies its effects is too small, it should be given a look at, perhaps instead check if maxwell has landed an attack in the last 5 or so seconds (ranged support maxwell what?)

-the casting time for most shadow spells are a bit obnoxious, either allow us to cancel the cast so we dont get hit or speed it up, im voting speed it up, shadows are too frail to take this long to summon.

- shadow sneak is great, but i think if spawned directly on top of something it should activate immediately instead of becoming a trap, having a cooldown, and THEN activating. It would just help with nightmare farming tons.

- and unfortunately a nerf

- the pillars are a little TOO effective on many bosses, i haven’t really been talking about it, but the eyes, dragonfly, celestial champions spin, they can be completely cheesed with ease. If you can make the bosses completely safe to fight, something needs to change.
 

However i do think being able to lock the grumble bees down should be allowed, they can be dealt with in other ways fairly easily, this is just a character specific one that adds a fun bit of depth to the fight managing the grumbles.

[Mike23Ua]

Have you played gunfire reborn yet? Your Chain Attack holds down even bosses, I’m assuming Maxwells pillars are intended to work in the same way (Aka.. being the RPG character class you can pick with an ability that pins the enemy down so you can effectively turn them into a loot piñata) or in words most people will understand: Maya from Borderlands 2.

Its not a new concept (maybe for a DS game it is..) but it feels so broken and op to you probably because you don’t play many RPGs that use these kind of combat abilities. It really doesn’t need a nerf TBH..

[Copyafriend]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Have you played gunfire reborn yet? Your Chain Attack holds down even bosses, I’m assuming Maxwells pillars are intended to work in the same way (Aka.. being the RPG character class you can pick with an ability that pins the enemy down so you can effectively turn them into a loot piñata) or in words most people will understand: Maya from Borderlands 2.

Its not a new concept (maybe for a DS game it is..) but it feels so broken and op to you probably because you don’t play many RPGs that use these kind of combat abilities. It really doesn’t need a nerf TBH..

The problem is it completely breaks the bosses. I think the mechanic itself is great, but considering we have 2 (3 technically but its the same boss x2 bosses (one of which is THE endest game boss we have) who have a charge attack as their main attack (1 phase or not that second phase id the most dangerous imho) and basically cant attack at all. I have nothing against locking the bossed down concetually, but the bosses that rely on movement to attack need to be able to.. attack. If dragonfly cant reach the pools she should just skip the phase and enrage. The EOC and celestial champion (phase 2) need to ignore the pillars completely because their entire method of attack is invalidated by being able to be “locked down”, and thus shouldn’t be doable at all. 

[edulopes]

32 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

-

- and unfortunately a nerf

- the pillars are a little TOO effective on many bosses, i haven’t really been talking about it, but the eyes, dragonfly, celestial champions spin, they can be completely cheesed with ease. If you can make the bosses completely safe to fight, something needs to change.
 

the pillars are fine as they are, but i think if you nerf something you should give in another side,
take wolfgang for an example, he lost his move speed, but gained consistent 2x time damage during all the figth
if you want to nerf the BEST part of an caracter kit i think you should tell an buff to other part equally as important, because this isnt an competitive game is an coop one, and in my eyes all caracters should bring something exclusive and new to the table that helps others, maxwell before rework was totally obsolete in all ways, so now i thnk we should bring the ligth he deserves

[dois raios]

dst lacks in crowd control, and when klei finally gives a solid step on it, some people didnt like it, i feel bad.

i hope klei finally start giving attention to crowd control mechanics for now on, every crowd control in the game dont work properly, you want to freeze the enemy? it gets freeze resistance. You want to put the enemy on fire? you will lose the loot and it will spread fire in the world. You put the enemies to sleep? they get resistant too, and if they have herd behavior, all wake up at the same time. And it goes one on the list, now we finally have the first decent crowd control in the game, this opens a precedent to klei finally change the others crowd controls mechanics in-game.

[Copyafriend]

3 minutes ago, edulopes said:

the pillars are fine as they are, but i think if you nerf something you should give in another side,
take wolfgang for an example, he lost his move speed, but gained consistent 2x time damage during all the figth
if you want to nerf the BEST part of an caracter kit i think you should tell an buff to other part equally as important, because this isnt an competitive game is an coop one, and in my eyes all caracters should bring something exclusive and new to the table that helps others, maxwell before rework was totally obsolete in all ways, so now i thnk we should bring the ligth he deserves

Its not actually a nerf in my eyes. Bosses need to be able to fight back, that isnt really debatable the “nerf” i am suggesting is EXCLUSIVE to the bosses that it completely breaks.

[edulopes]

 

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Its not actually a nerf in my eyes. Bosses need to be able to fight back, that isnt really debatable the “nerf” i am suggesting is EXCLUSIVE to the bosses that it completely breaks.

i think DF should figth back for SURE, but CC it is the same as locking him down, basically think about those shadow walls  as being some trump card that maxwell made especially for him, lunar versus fuel 

[Guille6785]

11 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

celestial champion (phase 2) need to ignore the pillars completely because their entire method of attack is invalidated by being able to be “locked down”, and thus shouldn’t be doable at all. 

[Copyafriend]

20 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

Hey look a SECOND exploit that should be patched out

 

on a more serious note: this is quite literally an exploit, its fine that this exists, but official abilities of character should not be able to perform the function of a literal exploit

[dois raios]

25 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

The EOC and celestial champion (phase 2) need to ignore the pillars completely because their entire method of attack is invalidated by being able to be “locked down”

I can invalidate both bosses attacks by walking, should walking be nerfed?

[Copyafriend]

9 minutes ago, dois raios said:

I can invalidate both bosses attacks by walking, should walking be nerfed?

Dodging isnt removing the ability for them to attack you at all, if you dont like me saying this basically exploit should be patched out just say so, there is no need to be rude.

[dois raios]

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Dodging isnt removing the ability for them to attack you at all, if you dont like me saying this basically exploit should be patched out just say so, there is no need to be rude.

i am not being rude, i am sorry if it sounded rude

[Wenhelxing]

here's the thing, if you guys think that nerfing the pillars is the right thing to do then let me tell you otherwise.

• The shadow pillars are arguably the best feature within this rework so far. 
• The pillars do cost sanity to summon, meaning you'll either be insane or having a sanity counter method like food or a bone helmet.
• Combined with the duelist pre-current update, they offer a pretty good "watch the chaos unfold" experience. 
• Some people prefer a summoner/long range attack experience with minimal damage done to themselves. 
• As the former shadow king, he should at least be "above average" or somewhat OP lore wise, since he has thorough knowledge of dark magic. 
• The pillars make Maxwell an amazing assist character in multiplayer, arguably even better than wicker in combat. 
• Overall, this is one of many features that could revive maxwell as a character. 

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

here's the thing, if you guys think that nerfing the pillars is the right thing to do then let me tell you otherwise.

• The shadow pillars are arguably the best feature within this rework so far. 
• The pillars do cost sanity to summon, meaning you'll either be insane or having a sanity counter method like food or a bone helmet.
• Combined with the duelist pre-current update, they offer a pretty good "watch the chaos unfold" experience. 
• Some people prefer a summoner/long range attack experience with minimal damage done to themselves. 
• As the former shadow king, he should at least be "above average" or somewhat OP lore wise, since he has thorough knowledge of dark magic. 
• The pillars make Maxwell an amazing assist character in multiplayer, arguably even better than wicker in combat. 
• Overall, this is one of many features that could revive maxwell as a character. 

Im saying fix the bosses specifically. We shouldn’t be able to tuen a boss off, i didnt realize that was such a hot take. Like literally the three or four bosses this breaks entirely, fix THAT. Nothing else. Deerclops, bearger, bee queen, literally anyone but the bosses who cant fight back if they cant move. Its not even a nerf really its a bug fix

[Cloakingsumo198]

Make pillars take damage

[Wenhelxing]

Quote

Im saying fix the bosses specifically. We shouldn’t be able to tuen a boss off, i didnt realize that was such a hot take. Like literally the three or four bosses this breaks entirely, fix THAT. Nothing else. Deerclops, bearger, bee queen, literally anyone but the bosses who cant fight back if they cant move. Its not even a nerf really its a bug fix

 

Everybody deserve their own opinions including you, but apparently all the people I've asked are pretty happy with the pillars. The Chinese DST community has been loving the pillars. With the current duelist(they suck), I'd say that the pillars are pretty good. 

[Copyafriend]

Just now, Wenhelxing said:

Everybody deserve their own opinions including you, but apparently all the people I've asked are pretty happy with the pillars. The Chinese DST community has been loving the pillars. With the current duelist(they suck), I'd say that the pillars are pretty good. 

Glad they’re liking it, i just see it as poor game design to be able to disable a boss entirely. But you are all entitled to your own opinions

[Mike23Ua]

51 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Its not actually a nerf in my eyes. Bosses need to be able to fight back, that isnt really debatable the “nerf” i am suggesting is EXCLUSIVE to the bosses that it completely breaks.

But I mean have you made it to at the very least the first boss fight in Gunfire Reborn?? You stop the boss in his tracks and prevent him from being able to move or attack- it’s a Crowd Control effect and DST has lacked having a proper version of one for far too long, it’s a shame that it’s locked to playing as Maxwell and there aren’t IDK Ancient Tomes that let us drop cages of energy down on Foes but in general- it’s meant to prevent the enemy from attacking you. 

Im not in Beta so I don’t know fully how it works for Maxwell but in all those other games with CC effects, the effect usually has a Cooldown Timer before it can be used again.

Even Gotham Knights has these kind of Cooldown CC abilities.

Now like I said: Not in Beta so I’m only guessing how it works, but It SHOULD work like rolling back WANDAs Age clocks. *shrugs* 

[Copyafriend]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But I mean have you made it to at the very least the first boss fight in Gunfire Reborn?? You stop the boss in his tracks and prevent him from being able to move or attack- it’s a Crowd Control effect and DST has lacked having a proper version of one for far too long, it’s a shame that it’s locked to playing as Maxwell and there aren’t IDK Ancient Tomes that let us drop cages of energy down on Foes but in general- it’s meant to prevent the enemy from attacking you. 

Im not in Beta so I don’t know fully how it works for Maxwell but in all those other games with CC effects, the effect usually has a Cooldown Timer before it can be used again.

Even Gotham Knights has these kind of Cooldown CC abilities.

Now like I said: Not in Beta so I’m only guessing how it works, but It SHOULD work like rolling back WANDAs Age clocks. *shrugs* 

There is no cooldown whatsoever, and no i didnt play gunfire reborn. 
 

It costs 15 sanity and lasts 15ish seconds (i never timed it), if you cast it while active the boss stays stuck and the pillars just disappear and reappear too fast for them to move. 

if you catch dragonfly during her spawning phase (when she runs to the magma pools) she will stop fighting back entirely, and will let you kill her with no repercussions so long as you keep her from spawning all her babies. 
 

this to me, is a exploit, a unintended consequence of the mechanic, as such it should be fixed in my humble opinion.

the eye of cthulhu behaved similarly, it still tries to attack but it cant reach you. 

 

i honestly would lose a LOT of respect for klei if dragonfly at least wasnt patched in some way.

[Wenhelxing]

Quote

this to me, is a exploit, a unintended consequence of the mechanic, as such it should be fixed in my humble opinion.

the eye of cthulhu behaved similarly, it still tries to attack but it cant reach you. 

 

i honestly would lose a LOT of respect for klei if dragonfly at least wasnt patched in some way

For me at least, its not an exploit. Klei has already patched so many cheeses this year to the point where I had to change some of my play styles, and I'm not happy with it. However, there's a lot more cheeses that still exist, and if klei patches all of them, people are not going to be happy about it. Its about balancing the audience instead of the game. Like I said before, everybody's got their own playstyles, but klei shouldn't lock a person to that particular playstyle even if the person is cheesing a certain boss. 

[Copyafriend]

25 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

For me at least, its not an exploit. Klei has already patched so many cheeses this year to the point where I had to change some of my play styles, and I'm not happy with it. However, there's a lot more cheeses that still exist, and if klei patches all of them, people are not going to be happy about it. Its about balancing the audience instead of the game. Like I said before, everybody's got their own playstyles, but klei shouldn't lock a person to that particular playstyle even if the person is cheesing a certain boss. 

Thats a valid point of view, and i love the existence of cheese. Its great when you just dont wanna deal with x boss. But i dont think using an ability AS INTENDED should be cheese. I think if using an ability as its meant to be used breaks the boss, it should just be seen as a glitch, not a “cheese” that needs to be “nerfed”

[Wenhelxing]

 

Quote

Thats a valid point of view, and i love the existence of cheese. Its great when you just dont wanna deal with x boss. But i dont think using an ability AS INTENDED should be cheese. I think if using an ability as its meant to be used breaks the boss, it should just be seen as a glitch, not a “cheese” that needs to be “nerfed”

 

Fair, but still, kinda wish that's not the case since I secretly want maxwell to be powerful again. Personal preference, but me and a lot of people wish him to become OP deep down. 

[Thrul]

1 hour ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Make pillars take damage

Yeah

[Thrul]

It should just take 1 hit then disappear

[maradyne]

It would be nice if bosses would deal damage to the pillars corresponding to how much space they attempt to move when bound.