Final Maxwell Tweaks

[Mysterious box]

I feel like Maxwell is in a good state as he stands so if neither of these happen I don't really see any harm but I figured I'd say them.

1. Shadow Servants should deliver items they're holding to Maxwell even if he's standing outside of their range of activity circle.

2. I can't help feeling shadow pillars are cheesy against bosses but rather than outright removing their interaction I feel like it should drain more durability from the codex when using pillars on them.

[Wenhelxing]

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2. I can't help feeling shadow pillars are cheesy against bosses but rather than outright removing their interaction I feel like it should drain more durability from the codex when using pillars on them.

My guy, you've got to realize that a VERY BALANCED character requires a lot of nerfing, and so far it looks like your standards of balance is forcing players to get involved in a fight rather then letting the duelists do all the work. You may call this cheesing or cheating but in reality its a way of playing the game. Some people prefer to have this kind of playstyle. Take wicker for example. Her tentacles can cheese almost every land boss in the game. Would you say that its unbalanced? Of course it is, and thats why people use her when they build boss farms. Same goes for winona. Not everything has to be perfectly balanced in order to be good, its all about having fun in a game. Instead of having a tedious experience, why not just let them be? 

[Dr. Safety]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

1. Shadow Servants should deliver items they're holding to Maxwell even if he's standing outside of their range of activity circle.

Gonna tack this on here too, they should walk on water if they can't pathfind their way back to Maxwell without leaving their circle. I'm lazy and wanted to grab a tentacle spike across the river, so I spawned a clone to do it but it kept trying to run back to me on land, but would refuse to leave the circle so it just kinda ran back and forth until it died...

[Mysterious box]

39 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

My guy, you've got to realize that a VERY BALANCED character requires a lot of nerfing, and so far it looks like your standards of balance is forcing players to get involved in a fight rather then letting the duelists do all the work. You may call this cheesing or cheating but in reality its a way of playing the game. Some people prefer to have this kind of playstyle. Take wicker for example. Her tentacles can cheese almost every land boss in the game. Would you say that its unbalanced? Of course it is, and thats why people use her when they build boss farms. Same goes for winona. Not everything has to be perfectly balanced in order to be good, its all about having fun in a game. Instead of having a tedious experience, why not just let them be? 

The key difference with Maxwell is how free his duelists are combined with his no sanity drain night armor and dark sword if the idea is for him to just stand back and watch them fight I don't believe he should get the new perks of the shadow equipment as with it he's not fragile or a low damage dealer without his shadows which he also should never be without considering how free they are compared to other characters with summons/followers.

[Cloakingsumo198]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Gonna tack this on here too, they should walk on water if they can't pathfind their way back to Maxwell without leaving their circle. I'm lazy and wanted to grab a tentacle spike across the river, so I spawned a clone to do it but it kept trying to run back to me on land, but would refuse to leave the circle so it just kinda ran back and forth until it died...

That sounded like a big brain moment.  Too bad the game said no hope they change that.

[Wenhelxing]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The key difference with Maxwell is how free his duelists are combined with his no sanity drain night armor and dark sword if the idea is for him to just stand back and watch them fight I don't believe he should get the new perks of the shadow equipment as with it he's not fragile or a low damage dealer without his shadows which he also should never be without considering how free they are compared to other characters with summons/followers.

Now here's the thing with the night armor: the way I see it, its meant to negate his 75 health. Every other summoner has over 125 health, so the only reasonable explanation is for him to recieve better protection than the others unless Klei tweaks his health. Maxwell's duelists aren't really free, since they cost nightmare fuel to refuel the codex. Getting nightmare fuel early game for maxwell is a huge challenge, with his crippling 75 health. That part requires skill, a lot of skill. As I see it, remove the sanity penalty when hit wearing night armor entirely, since you're gonna lose more sanity with this penalty while fighting bosses compared to other character's passive sanity loss while wearing it. 

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Wenhelxing said:

Now here's the thing with the night armor: the way I see it, its meant to negate his 75 health. Every other summoner has over 125 health, so the only reasonable explanation is for him to recieve better protection than the others unless Klei tweaks his health.

Which means he's tankier than most other summoners except maybe Wurt after she has the king's blessing on average.

 

1 minute ago, Wenhelxing said:

Maxwell's duelists aren't really free, since they cost nightmare fuel to refuel the codex.

each duelist costs 1/5 of a nightmare fuel

 

2 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

Getting nightmare fuel early game for maxwell is a huge challenge

all you need to do to get safe nightmare is use shadow prison to trap rabbits then use shadow sneak to convert them and kill them for guaranteed nightmare fuel from a mob that cannot fight back and later you can make a kill pen for bunnymen and let your duelists shred them for faster fuel.

 

4 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

As I see it, remove the sanity penalty when hit wearing night armor entirely, since you're gonna lose more sanity with this penalty while fighting bosses compared to other character's passive sanity loss while wearing it. 

Honestly I didn't even notice that he still loses sanity on hit while wearing night armor but even then look towards Walter who doesn't get 95% damage reduction and always takes sanity damage from hits I feel like Maxwell's fine losing a bit of sanity on hit for 95% damage reduction. 

[Wenhelxing]

But in conclusion, people have different playstyles. You can choose to not cheese or to cheese, but at least let there be an option. We can argue on this all day, and its meaning less unless Klei actually does something. I honor your opinion, but I don't agree with what you're suggesting. In mine as well as alot of other people's opinions, maxwell is the "behind the scenes" kind of character, and we've picture him that way before the rework came out. Its not about game balance, its about Klei making a good character that actually fits his role in both lore and gameplay. in the end, as long as people are having fun, its fair game shall I say. 

[Thrul]

Then Maxwell is a character for people who don't cheat. Simple. Don't get mad if the developers don't want Maxwell to be a character for cheaters.

[maradyne]

1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

1. Shadow Servants should deliver items they're holding to Maxwell even if he's standing outside of their range of activity circle.

Gonna tack this on here too, they should walk on water if they can't pathfind their way back to Maxwell without leaving their circle.

Honestly I would just say have them ignore land borders entirely when pathing. Would be unique.

[Antynomity]

Ah yes, because every new mechanic that does something unique or unexpected or changes the way you do sth is cheesing/cheating, gotta love forumites!

Also if he really was in a 'good place' according to you then you wouldnt request yet another nerf  

 

[Ohan]

16 hours ago, Wenhelxing said:

Take wicker for example. Her tentacles can cheese almost every land boss in the game. Would you say that its unbalanced?

Tentacle traps are location bound and require a gargantuan amount of sanity food or several days of fighting nightmares to set up, several tentacle books which require killing tentacles and bookcase if u dont want to lose those books. Not to mention they can kill the player if u misstep for a second. And now do all that for every boss everywhere on the map. 

There is no comparison to be made between anything in the game previously and new maxwell. 

His costs are ridiculously low for the payoff he gets. 

1/5 fuel for a loyal merm guard on steroids anywhere on the map in both shards, at any time with 0 setup. 

1/5 fuel and 15 sanity for the best form of crowd control the game has ever seen. Available right out of the gate on day 1. 

like this is modded character territory lol. 

[dois raios]

Klei is listening to everyone feedback, this is amasing, then i will share an idea to Maxwell have a fifth spell again, since now the old fifth speel now is an crafting, so, what about a spell to invoke a temporary night light? or a spell to make enemies lose interest on you? or a spell to put enemies to sleep? idk, just giving some ideas

A spell for a temporary light that drains your sanity when being near is cool, what do you guys think?

After this many changes in Maxwell, I think he cant match wanda and wolfgang yet, but without any doubts, he is fun to play, thx klei.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, dois raios said:

so, what about a spell to invoke a temporary night light

He can use Wickerbottom's book for this.

 

2 hours ago, dois raios said:

or a spell to make enemies lose interest on you?

Shadow sneak more or less does this already.

Personally I feel like a nice idea they could for the 5th slot is make it a toggle to change servants from mining and chopping to collecting incase you want them to do one or the other rather than having them decide themselves.