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Combat in this game is too simple, and I think more whips are one of the answers.


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I want to give a full disclaimer that I barely mention whips in this post, and am instead suggesting something I'd personally love to see. This is mostly a gripe with combat in this game currently, and I'm genuinely interested in what others think would make it better.

 

I recently saw another post, linked here: 

and I enjoyed reading through it. I think the general consensus from my understand is that weapons should be locked damage wise to Dark Sword, and that mechanics provided by characters like Wolfgang, Wanda, Wigfrid, Warly-centric buffs, Abigail's petal buff, etc. already push the boundaries of damage further. I agree with those sentiments wholeheartedly. There also seems to be a growing voice that the difficulty in this game has fallen off considerably for many people, and I kind of fall into that category, but that's another topic. My suggestion is simply a way to expand on how different weapons with properties that are not standard melee could be implemented in other ways, via more whips.

I won't lie, I find combat in this game pretty dull. I've played this game for thousands of hours, so that should be taken into account, but it's a very simple process of running up to something, smacking it in the face with a stick of some sorts, preferably stun-locking it if your ping is good enough, until it's dead. It's probably triggering that I oversimplified it so much, but I'd love to be proven wrong on this. I really would.

The addition of the Shield of Terror felt like a breath of fresh air, being a new an interesting melee weapon. And when I saw that the fencing sword had a unique attack animation, but did similar damage, and less DPS than the spear.. that got me thinking. Why does our character swing the spear like a darn sword? I think it's time the spear is actually used like, well, a spear. I'd like to see its range be utilized in the way the fencing sword's animation currently is, but with noticeably longer range than other weapons, and perhaps a slight DPS decrease as compensation. Maybe it could even damage multiple enemies if they're lined up properly, to allow some sort of skill ceiling with it.

I know Klei has it in them to truly make combat something exciting. I mean, most of us have played The Forge. If you haven't, try the modded servers for it. You'll know what I mean.

What does make combat not lobotomizing in vanilla DST, is that some mobs dare to defy doctrine of dying via stunlock, by recovering from too many hits at once, like the brave Pig, and display reasonable intelligence by attempting to kite you back. This rarely works out for it, but admittedly was the death of me for quite a while when I was new, as I wasn't as patient in waiting for him to come back, dodging his attack and delivering more hits, rinse and repeat until it dies. I also didn't wear armor for some reason. Ironically, the Pig is easier to deal with as a Werepig, because it loses this will to survive, doesn't kite and can also be stunlocked, even after a recent attempt to prevent this, on good ping. Mobs like the tentacle are incredibly dangerous as well, because they can only be hit once before delivering a two-hit combo, making it a very dangerous game of "footsies", a fighting game term for carefully placing a safe hit, and outspacing your opponent before they can react with one themselves.

However, it gets much trickier with numbers. Spiders are one of the more interesting things to fight, because they swarm and prevent the almighty meta of holding Ctrl+F, lest you suffer considerable damage. This does not apply to characters like Wigfrid and Wendy that will simply eat the penalties of standing still attacking for breakfast, but for others, you must carefully pick apart their numbers, memorize their attack patterns, and most importantly, account for their incredible (and deceptive) range when trying to go back in for an attack. It becomes a beautifully intricate dance of footwork and fighting to overcome bigger swarms conventionally, especially when Spider Warriors are among them. Hounds are similar to both tentacles and spiders in one, as they swarm and have a two-hit only window before they punish you with a bite. This makes them dangerous in numbers, especially bigger ones, however they have ADHD and quickly aggro anything else in a radius, encouraging clever use of running to other mobs, or utilizing several hound-killing strategies like Hound Traps or Winona Catapults. I really enjoy their place as a threatening, omnipresent obstacle that can be defeated without even lifting a weapon; because fighting isn't everything in a survival game, after all. Survival is top priority.

There are of course many other mobs that do a reasonable job at attempting to not die at a Wilson with a hambat running up to them. I also didn't talk much about bosses, which mostly do have mechanics that do make combat very engaging, such as Klaus and Fuelweaver, fantastic fights. Deerclops does become a bit of a chore. and these days I prefer to use him exclusively to chop and subsequently die to treeguards, so at least I'm getting resources out of his visit. Bosses like Toadstool and Crab King are interesting mechanically, but there's already enough threads on why those ones are controversial.

This is a lot of things I'm talking about that have nothing to do with whips, you're probably wondering. But I thought it was important to establish I have some degree of awareness in how the mobs work in this game. I'll now get right into why I think whip variety would be a quick and efficient way to offer more to combat in the game.

They offer a semi-ranged way to engage mobs that is very satisfying, for one. I think this speaks VOLUMES to Wanda's popularity, as someone recently did a poll for favorite characters, linked here: 

that really made me think about how many people enjoy the concept of whips besides me. Of course, Wanda has lots of other benefits that could explain her popularity, such as the aforementioned ability to rapidly deal insane amounts of damage when old, as well as her high mobility with teleporting watches, and a reviving tool. I think those all compliment an enjoyable character. 

But combat is such an integrated part of DST now, that it's safe to say the Alarming Clock is a major factor of why people like to play her. I don't think additional whips should get anywhere near the point of dealing that kind of damage, in order to preserve her playstyle.

Whips are a "safer" option than being pure melee, as it allows a much more generous kiting window. This also lets you be more aggressive in certain cases against mobs that definitely pack a punch, like Tallbirds and Vargs. However, the trade-off is that they attack slower, resulting in negligible DPS, even if there was one that did as much, or slightly more damage than a Dark Sword. I want to quote a user on the endgame weapons topic I linked earlier that explained whip's DPS drawbacks already:

 

On 10/5/2022 at 3:08 PM, Wonz said:

The weapon's damage is one of weakest it says 27.2 but due to slower speed 0.5s it would reach dps of a 24.5 damage weapon which would have 0.45s or 23.6 damage for  0.433s depending on that random bug which allows you to stunlock werepig at this point i'm not sure which speed is intended. Range is cool but there's no way to react to that "loud snap" so you'll reaggro immediately also ofc it occurs on RNG which always sucks, there's no good in RNG.

He also mentioned the loud snap mechanic of the Catcoon Whip, which is unique, as the only other non-Wanda whip is a Kelp Stalk with the same damage.. I personally agree with as someone who's used this "weapon" quite a lot. The whip-crack, an ability that whip has that de-aggros mobs instantly from you on a 25% chance on hit (with a 5% chance on bosses) could have served as niche way to buy time in an emergency as a tool to swap to. What ends up happening instead is trying to attack with the weapon, but the crack happening so little that you've already hit them again before being able to take advantage of it. I think a rework to allow the loud crack on the first hit, with a long cooldown to prevent abuse, would be a nice way to improve that mechanic. The chance to de-aggro on bosses could perhaps be buffed to 25% in its place, to at least have some use at all as an option against stronger opponents, as using a 24.5 DPS weapon on a boss is already a fool's endeavor. (Trust me, I was that fool that's done challenge runs with Cat whip just to mix things up). There's no need to buff the damage for this whip with a mechanic as interesting as the loud crack either way, in my opinion.

My proposal for the implementation of a standard whip into normal play, then, is to change the Tentacle Bat to be a whip. it retains its 51 damage, 100 uses function, but simply gains whip properties. This would go in-line with the tentacles own method of attacking, and be lore-friendly, while also changing a fundamental early to mid-game weapon, into something much more interesting and exciting to use and seek out. Alternatively, the Big Tentacle in the caves could be buffed to be more challenging, but drop a similar whip to this instead.

Thank you for reading!

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2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i dont get the suggestion, whips makes the combat even simplier. As Wanda most of the time you only need to hold F and move a little in the opposite direction, that with a character without healing limitations would be very boring

Does Wanda have healing limitation? lol I think you have to say this to Wanda lovers who make more than 5 healing clocks, although some of them find only 3 enough.

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18 hours ago, Trevindo said:

Does Wanda have healing limitation? lol I think you have to say this to Wanda lovers who make more than 5 healing clocks, although some of them find only 3 enough.

yes, she has healing limitation since cant heal by spamming 234242 tomatoes, cant heal while getting damage and the healing can stop if she receive damage while the clock is going backwards. Also, 5 healing clocks = 5 slots to heal just 100 hp with cooldown while 1 slot of piergies heal 1600 without cooldowns. If someone needs 3 clocks (imagine 5) means that they will die a lot. Idk what kind of "wanda lovers" did you meet..

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10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i dont get the suggestion, whips makes the combat even simplier. As Wanda most of the time you only need to hold F and move a little in the opposite direction, that with a character without healing limitations would be very boring

I agree with you, to a point. It's hard to argue how effective whips would or wouldn't be as a main-hand weapon, because the only sample we have right now is the incredibly low 27 damage of the Kelp Stalk and Catcoon Whip, or the ridiculous truck that Wanda slaps around for 90-140 damage on average. I think it's really skewed how we see the potential of whips in general. 

Here's a simple thought experiment: I challenge you to try the closest thing I can think of to a whip with reasonable damage currently, which would probably be Mighty Wolfgang with a Catcoon whip. If you're anything like me, you're probably offended I just asked you to play Wolfgang, but it's for a good cause. Maybe fight a standard boss like Deerclops, and see if it changes the flow of the fight at all, compared to the ways we normally fight now.

I've already tried this, so my point is that it's actually pretty fun. You aren't dealing so much damage that the shadows that will eventually ensue are dead in 2-3 hits. However, you are allowed to hit them before they can get to you in most cases, which allows a much more aggressive playstyle against insanity in general. You're also given a much nicer window to dodge his own attacks, and sort of challenge his own range with yours.The tradeoff here is that you know you're going to be doing noticeably less damage to Deerclops than if you just had a hambat or higher.

It's simply a different way to fight, and that's what this game desperately needs.

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Just now, Gramugazy said:

I agree with you, to a point. It's hard to argue how effective whips would or wouldn't be as a main-hand weapon, because the only sample we have right now is the incredibly low 27 damage of the Kelp Stalk and Catcoon Whip, or the ridiculous truck that Wanda slaps around for 90-140 damage on average. I think it's really skewed how we see the potential of whips in general. 

Here's a simple thought experiment: I challenge you to try the closest thing I can think of to a whip with reasonable damage, which would probably be Mighty Wolfgang with a Catcoon whip. If you're anytthing like me, you're probably offended I just asked you to play Wolfgang, but it's for a good cause. Maybe fight a standard boss like Deerclops, and see if it changes the flow of the fight at all, compared to the ways we normally fight now.

I've already tried this, so my point is that it's actually pretty fun. You aren't dealing so much damage that the shadows that will eventually ensue are dead in 2-3 hits. However, you are allowed to hit them before they can get to you in most cases, which allows a much more aggressive playstyle against insanity in general. You're also given a much nicer window to dodge his own attacks, and sort of challenge his own range with yours.The tradeoff here is that you know you're going to be doing noticeably less damage to Deerclops than if you just had a hambat or higher.

It's simply a different way to fight, and that's what this game desperately needs.

i played many hours as wanda, i can tell that whips arent balanced for this game, no need to try wolf with cat whip. You only hold F and occasionally step back instead of needing to trully quite, that is not fun for me with regular characters (and even as wanda im tempted to use dark swords)

imo not a good thing to have as standard weapon

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1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i played many hours as wanda, i can tell that whips arent balanced for this game, no need to try wolf with cat whip. You only hold F and occasionally step back instead of needing to trully quite, that is not fun for me with regular characters (and even as wanda im tempted to use dark swords)

imo not a good thing to have as standard weapon

Fair enough, your stance on whips is that they're even simpler than regular combat, and I respect that.

This was a multi-topic post though, and whips was just the stepping stone I propose for how combat could be improved. I am interested in hearing what your, or anyone elses, proposal is for more ways to make combat exciting, rather it's a new weapon type, or ways for mobs to engage with their AI, etc, or if you even think combat needs to be changed at all.

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9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

yes, she has healing limitation since cant heal by spamming 234242 tomatoes, cant heal while getting damage and the healing can stop if she receive damage while the clock is going backwards. Also, 5 healing clocks = 5 slots to heal just 100 hp with cooldown while 1 slot of piergies heal 160 without cooldowns. If someone needs 3 clocks (imagine 5) means that they will die a lot. Idk what kind of "wanda lovers" did you meet..

Ue if we're going to talk about it wanda just has to have space for weapon, armor (Some just dodge) and the weapon (nightmare fuel is good) and theoretically every character has healing restriction which is called food rot rate, you can't take 1 billion food as it will spoil before it eats it all in the fight. And so I don't know if you play Wanda, but generally they use on average only 4 healing clocks, as the weapon gives a good range advantage and Wanda has a specific clock to dodge attacks.

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Just now, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I'd rather a weapon with a higher attack speed than a slower one.

Oh, something like a dagger? That would be pretty cool actually. I don't know if DST's coding currently allows for backstabs/critical hits, but that would also be a fun way to spice up raid bosses if someone could position behind backs for reasonable damage with one.

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While I agree that combat is a bit simple, I do not agree with the reasons the op says it is.. I think it’s also perhaps the “simple” combat that allows people to easily play and learn the game. But maybe some more advanced fights wouldn’t hurt..

for example maybe something like a Turtle that spins around inside it’s shell trying to hit you before becoming dizzy for a few moments leaving it vulnerable for attack.

I recently just got done playing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Shredders Revenge so- Simple fights with common every day mobs (that aren’t tied to some boss..) would be Nice.

Like how in TMNT there’s these Axe wielding foot soldiers who “charge” their attack before trying to hit you with it, or the sword wielding ones that “leap” into the air and splash down in front of you with their swords in front of them preventing you from attacking them from the front but you have to get behind them for a window of vulnerability after the splash down.

That’s the kind of changes I would like to see to combat.

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Just now, Gramugazy said:

Oh, something like a dagger? That would be pretty cool actually. I don't know if DST's coding currently allows for backstabs/critical hits, but that would also be a fun way to spice up raid bosses if someone could position behind backs for reasonable damage with one.

I like extra mechanics in my combat so I miss forge's abilities because they were able to cancel enemy attacks.  I think anything that can help disrupt in combat would help change up the attack and run away combo.

Walter has been the best option since his slingshot has special rounds and doesn't draw agro if the mob targets another player but it's nothing flashy or really that effective.

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3 minutes ago, Gramugazy said:

Fair enough, your stance on whips is that they're even simpler than regular combat, and I respect that.

This was a multi-topic post though, and whips was just the stepping stone I propose for how combat could be improved. I am interested in hearing what your, or anyone elses, proposal is for more ways to make combat exciting, rather it's a new weapon type, or ways for mobs to engage with their AI, etc, or if you even think combat needs to be changed at all.

imo combat can be funnier if we get more magical tools. Having more items in the way of lazy explorer, strident trident, ice staffs or weather pains can make the game funnier

5 minutes ago, Trevindo said:

Ue if we're going to talk about it wanda just has to have space for weapon, armor (Some just dodge) and the weapon (nightmare fuel is good) and theoretically every character has healing restriction which is called food rot rate, you can't take 1 billion food as it will spoil before it eats it all in the fight. And so I don't know if you play Wanda, but generally they use on average only 4 healing clocks, as the weapon gives a good range advantage and Wanda has a specific clock to dodge attacks.

i wont keep this debate since is offtopic and all of these was already discussed when wanda was release and most of the time the things you are saying was said by people who didnt played wanda. Bundle wraps prevent spoilage, batbats, healing salves and honey poultice exists. Good wandas only use 1 clock, 4 are for newbies that wanna have fun with a difficult character 

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avoiding enemy retalations for free doesnt make combat more interesting, it only makes it even easier and more brain dead which is one of your aformentioned issues.

 

the coon and algae whips pay for this advantage by having crap dps. Wanda's whip is an exception because its bound to her unique downsides.

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9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

imo combat can be funnier if we get more magical tools. Having more items in the way of lazy explorer, strident trident, ice staffs or weather pains can make the game funnier

i wont keep this debate since is offtopic and all of these was already discussed when wanda was release and most of the time the things you are saying was said by people who didnt played wanda. Bundle wraps prevent spoilage, batbats, healing salves and honey poultice exists. Good wandas only use 1 clock, 4 are for newbies that wanna have fun with a difficult character 

Yes packages exist, but they drop the items on the floor and if that's the case Wanda can just leave her watches on the floor and keep rotating the use of watches until the CD passes (Ready infinite healing), ointments don't enter the merit, because already If you are a good player, you should know that we usually don't use it because the usage animation gets in the way of fights. Good Wandas, with reasonable computer and in solo worlds can use only one clock without problem (just like any character in the game can be without healing if not taking damage), but usually on public servers this doesn't happen.

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26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

While I agree that combat is a bit simple, I do not agree with the reasons the op says it is.. I think it’s also perhaps the “simple” combat that allows people to easily play and learn the game. But maybe some more advanced fights wouldn’t hurt..

for example maybe something like a Turtle that spins around inside it’s shell trying to hit you before becoming dizzy for a few moments leaving it vulnerable for attack.

I recently just got done playing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Shredders Revenge so- Simple fights with common every day mobs (that aren’t tied to some boss..) would be Nice.

Like how in TMNT there’s these Axe wielding foot soldiers who “charge” their attack before trying to hit you with it, or the sword wielding ones that “leap” into the air and splash down in front of you with their swords in front of them preventing you from attacking them from the front but you have to get behind them for a window of vulnerability after the splash down.

That’s the kind of changes I would like to see to combat.

Absolutely. I think The Forge had a similar mob that did something similar too?

The only reason I didn't mention it is because I didn't want my post to sound too much like just wishing they completely ported Forge combat mechanics into the main game. I don't think there's any need for something that drastic. Would it be fun? I absolutely think so, but Klei has a very distinct vision for DST that does not completely revolve around fighting, and I really respect it. That's why updates like Reap What You Sow are great, they give players more opportunity to help gather food that isn't combat, because as you said, the simplicity = accessibility. That's why I started small with just suggesting more weapon variety. 

Anyways, mobs like this are another great way to add to the game. (Mush Gnomes also have an interesting way of defending themselves that I haven't quite mastered overcoming lmao.)

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16 minutes ago, Well-met said:

avoiding enemy retalations for free doesnt make combat more interesting, it only makes it even easier and more brain dead which is one of your aformentioned issues.

 

the coon and algae whips pay for this advantage by having crap dps. Wanda's whip is an exception because its bound to her unique downsides.

I don't think whips in general are nearly as powerful as you're implying, with avoiding retaliation for free. Easier to deal with, sure, but that's mostly because of how animation cancel in general works in this game. You can cancel the animation of a whip retracting, which I personally think would be a good nerf to them if this wasn't an option, as quick as the whip hits something.

In fact, I'd argue that's exactly what's happening in DST with ANY combat right now. You're avoiding hits for free rather you realize it or not when you approach something, hit it, and then run as the backswing animation is happening. If anyone has played the singleplayer Don't Starve, you'll know exactly what I mean when I say combat is much riskier, because this was never a thing.  When you attacked, you fully commited to the swing, and there was real risk to trying to hit a shadow or something similar before it hits you. In this, you can literally get free hits and run away as soon as the hit registers to avoid damage.

This also means you can squeeze even more DPS out of normal melee weapons by quickly swapping something like a Football Hat at the end of your swing to really gain noticeable DPS,

I'm interested if anyone on the coding side knows how easy this would be to "fix", and if it would add to the combat if it was indeed fixed.

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8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Like how in TMNT there’s these Axe wielding foot soldiers who “charge” their attack before trying to hit you with it, or the sword wielding ones that “leap” into the air and splash down in front of you with their swords in front of them preventing you from attacking them from the front but you have to get behind them for a window of vulnerability after the splash down.

FW really nailed that feeling with it's multitude of attacks that you have to respond appropriately to succeed. I guess AG is also kinda like that also but in a much simpler sense.

Regular mobs have ended up being far too simple though. Some may have a near impossible to dodge projectile "mctusk, bishop, spitter" or they get some kinda underwhelming secondary attack like "warrior and shattered spiders".

I guess there's also have some really annoying disruptive moves like bunkering "rock lobsters, cave spiders, slurtles/snurtles" or group healing like the nurse spiders.

It kinda makes sense since most of these mobs get found in groups if the moves were too strong It would be easy to get overwhelmed.

8 minutes ago, Gramugazy said:

I'm interested if anyone on the coding side knows how easy this would be to "fix", and if it would add to the combat if it was indeed fixed

Me if animation cancelling ever gets fixed:cursed-emoji-cry-tantrum.gif.ffedd40ea897f76cc8ea86113ee85bb0.gif

It's made fighting so much more enjoyable over the single player version for me although I understand what ya mean.

Also one last thing that I really enjoyed about the forge's weapon abilities is that not only did they reset a mobs attack cycle, it created a moment of invulnerability, allowed free repositioning, and drew agro which in the hecticness of forge was extremely useful.

However regular dst healing is far more readily available and fights aren't nearly as hectic.

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Actually I never got to play the forge, all my comparisons are either coming from Other games outside the DS franchise, OR Shipwrecked & Hamlet.

I mean: Klei could do something with making Moonstorms turn Catcoons into mutated freaks with Freddy Krueger like claws and they “leap” at you claws extended before crashing down to guard themselves from damage with those claws as a shield, you will need to get behind the Mutated Moonglass Catcoon when it rears up and Hisses at You right before attempting its leap attack again.

Shipwrecked & Hamlet spiced up the Enemy “Variety” a little bit.

And i would absolutely LOVE to see DST follow suit.

As an example: Why do the Pig torch Warriors still fight with the same basic attacks as normal Pigmen? They’re smart enough to craft clothes and paint themselves up like warriors, but they don’t have idk.. spears or something to attempt to “poke” the player with.

Combat needs to be changed As much as Fishing, Farming, & Boating & even the Crafting UI Menu has..

But that’s just my opinion. 
Most importantly of all though: Klei should provide players OPTIONS to enjoy the Outdated Combat System, or the Improved Version.

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38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Shipwrecked & Hamlet spiced up the Enemy “Variety” a little bit.

Flashbacks to the Pig Townsguards that were literally just pigs, but wearing a fancier log suit, and had a halberd to function as a spear of their own. Such a simple change to them made them.. terrifying. Effective. And pretty fun to fight in my opinion, since they dropped both of those equipments!

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

As an example: Why do the Pig torch Warriors still fight with the same basic attacks as normal Pigmen? They’re smart enough to craft clothes and paint themselves up like warriors, but they don’t have idk.. spears or something to attempt to “poke” the player with.

I wonder if giving them the funny little combo that Clout Snout summoned pigs have would be a good idea. They're essentially the same mob, I would think, being advanced warriors for the Pig King, yet you're right that currently they're kind of a pushover lmao.

 

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Combat needs to be changed As much as Fishing, Farming, & Boating & even the Crafting UI Menu has..

But that’s just my opinion. 
Most importantly of all though: Klei should provide players OPTIONS to enjoy the Outdated Combat System, or the Improved Version.

I definitely think that eventually, combat is going to evolve in the same ways as these have. It's just arguably the hardest thing they can possibly overhaul, since it's been more or less the same since even the archaic betas of the original Don't Starve. The animation canceling in DST is the biggest change they've ever done with it, IMO.

I personally enjoy that it exists as well, but there's no denying it just makes combat as it is now far less rewarding/difficult than it was in SP. Nor makes sense that characters can completely defy the physics of their own swings in a game that is largely based on, albeit heavily altered and stylized, science.

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually I never got to play the forge, all my comparisons are either coming from Other games outside the DS franchise, OR Shipwrecked & Hamlet.

Oh, also the Forge was fantastic. Not only did it introduce highly aggressive mobs that had multiple attacks, and unique ones, very similar to the spinning turtle idea you had, but it introduced combat mechanics that worked so very well, such as:

  • manipulatable mob aggro, so that one player could sort of work as the "runner" for the group. This worked insanely well in team scenarios, and made Woodie very fun to play, because his Lucy was basically a ranged boomerang that really ticked off mobs and made them constantly chase him, and interrupted their own attacks. This allowed the DPS to deal with mobs with proper coordination.
  • The Firestaff was a valid ranged weapon, and so were blowdarts, and it was absolutely necessary to have backliners to deal with how crazy those mobs were. 
  • Most weapons had alternative sub-abilities by right clicking, similar to how you can summon a dwarf star with rightclicking while holding a Star-caller, but for melee weapons. This included a sort of rush-attack when using the spear (don't remember too well) and an AOE/Area of Effect shockwave when using a Hammer, which stunned the ground and disrupted mobs to save someone else. There were a few other ones that escape my memory It was by far the best part of the combat in the Forge.
  • There was a new healing staff, that placed a small area of forest growth that let everyone heal up after each round. A Lifegiving Staff would be really nice in DST, though it'd probably need a nerf since it was meant for much more fast-paced combat. if they ever add a new gem type I'd love to see it return, or perhaps just as an alternate, ruins version of a staff made with red gems. Since Lifegiving Amulet already means Red Gem has similar properties. 

That's about as much as I can remember. The Forge was an event like, 3-4 years ago, yet it still is so cherished by me and everyone who got the chance to play it. I don't think anyone would deny using the mechanics from it would be the most immediate way to re-invigorate combat, if either the same mobs, or new ones with their own mechanics, were added to compensate.

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"combat rework thread that inevitably just leads to wanting to port dark souls combat to dst" #4943859 (im not joking you already brought up backstabs, critical hits, whips etc)

I want more weapons too, I really do, but there's beauty in simplicity and a survival game that isn't focused around combat benefits from an intuitive combat system tremendously, my rule of thumb is that complexity =/= depth

if I want dark souls combat I can always just play dark souls

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41 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

"combat rework thread that inevitably just leads to wanting to port dark souls combat to dst" #4943859 (im not joking you already brought up backstabs, critical hits, whips etc)

I want more weapons too, I really do, but there's beauty in simplicity and a survival game that isn't focused around combat benefits from an intuitive combat system tremendously, my rule of thumb is that complexity =/= depth

if I want dark souls combat I can always just play dark souls

You're not wrong. In fact, Wheeler was my favorite character in Hamlet because she had a dodge roll lmao.

19 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Maybe a whip as a boss drop. Non-refuelable and non-craftable. So it would be like a small bonus for certain situations, similar to Bee Queen Crown. Regular whip would just break the game.

 Yeah, and I think reworking the Big Tentacle to be that kind of mini-boss would be the perfect way to introduce it. 

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