Quick! What do you want to see in Maxwell Rework?

[maxwell_winters]

1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

It's interesting to see people not liking him being the puppet character and wanting to scrap it completely to make him just the magic character.

Because watching someone do stuff for you is fun irl but it's boring in video games. People want more interaction and not afk gaming. 

[Ev1l]

If the Maxwell refresh doesn't add a "shadow farmer", a "shadow fisher" and a "shadow sailraiser" I'll riot!

Now fo real tho. I think a bulkier version of the duelist that doesn't try to kite their enemies, instead going full Wigfrid main, would go a long way to better Maxwell's combat. It could be made with a log suit or a football helmet and it could be called "shadow berserker" or something.

[Dr. Safety]

1 hour ago, Spirit Glow said:

I think its probably becuz people find magic more saitsfying / interesting. His puppets are great at gathering but are terrible for anything else. Its like having pig/merm/ bunny followers that can barely fight. 

I wouldnt mind him being the puppet character but im skeptical that it can be done in way that makes it feel satisfying while accomplishing the "shadow magic" vision that people have for him. I love Maxwell as a character but afk farming as him gets old quick.

I definitely agree about them being bad at fighting right now, but that's why Maxwell needs reworked. I do think if Klei has their work cut out for them when it comes to making a summonable fighter puppet that is balanced and yet not absolute garbage, but imo they have been on a roll with these past few reworks, so I have no doubt that they will be able to find that balance with Maxwell. I also want to reiterate that I also want Maxwell to get some nice magic perks as the only thing he has right now is that his natural sanity gain which makes it easy to recover sanity in between using magic items. He needs more than that, but I think he can get those while not essentially scrapping the character he is now and becoming something totally new.

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

Because watching someone do stuff for you is fun irl but it's boring in video games. People want more interaction and not afk gaming. 

I mean, resource gathering is boring no matter what. Whether it's Maxwell or anyone else, it all boils down to just holding space, yeah? Woodie holds space to chop, then holds space to pick up the logs. Maxwell holds space to pick up the logs. The boring job gets done faster with Maxwell so wouldn't having the puppets mean Maxwell has more time doing interactive things and less time just holding space?

[MadMatt]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I mean, resource gathering is boring no matter what. Whether it's Maxwell or anyone else, it all boils down to just holding space, yeah? Woodie holds space to chop, then holds space to pick up the logs. Maxwell holds space to pick up the logs. The boring job gets done faster with Maxwell so wouldn't having the puppets mean Maxwell has more time doing interactive things and less time just holding space?

I think the issue people have with Maxwell's method of gathering resource is that it just doesn't feel fun. I've never touched Maxwell, but Woodie doesn't feel boring to gather wood as (other than picking the damn logs up) because the werebeaver feels so fun: in art, transformation, music, sound design, and potentially more depending on the person. Maxwell using his super awesome shadow powers to... do menial tasks in a very boring manner is probably why people want to do away with his resource gathering schtick as a whole. It feels bad, but isn't necessarily bad. 

Just my two cents though.

[Pinkamena11FazP]

This:

[Dr. Safety]

33 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

I think the issue people have with Maxwell's method of gathering resource is that it just doesn't feel fun. I've never touched Maxwell, but Woodie doesn't feel boring to gather wood as (other than picking the damn logs up) because the werebeaver feels so fun: in art, transformation, music, sound design, and potentially more depending on the person. Maxwell using his super awesome shadow powers to... do menial tasks in a very boring manner is probably why people want to do away with his resource gathering schtick as a whole. It feels bad, but isn't necessarily bad. 

Just my two cents though.

Definitely fair. I guess I don't ever really feel that way because early game I use the near-insane state of Maxwell to farm nightmare fuel and wood at the same time. Then in late game, it almost feels like an escort mission with my puppets as treeguards start popping up like crazy so I like getting to defend the puppets. Sometimes that happens while I'm farming nightmare fuel, and having to fend off both nightmare creatures and teeguards is so fun to me.

My big thing is no matter how bad or boring it feels to just summon choppers, diggers, and miners, it's honestly why I love Maxwell so much. I get a certain satisfaction of absolutely leveling forests in no time using just my characters abilities. I want to make sure that I voice how much I enjoy his whole puppet gimmick, because with as many people who seem to dislike it, I don't want to see it going away. I don't really see it going away since these reworks are not suppose to turn characters into completely new ones, but in the off chance that Klei changes their stance on that, I just wanted to throw my suppport in the direction of keeping the puppets to some extent.

[maxwell_winters]

1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

I mean, resource gathering is boring no matter what. Whether it's Maxwell or anyone else, it all boils down to just holding space, yeah? Woodie holds space to chop, then holds space to pick up the logs. Maxwell holds space to pick up the logs. The boring job gets done faster with Maxwell so wouldn't having the puppets mean Maxwell has more time doing interactive things and less time just holding space?

Woodie got non-gathering transformations. The only non-gathering perks of Maxwell are shadow duelist (suck) and passive sanity gain which isn't even strong enough to cover up the sanity drain from dark swords and night armor. Wigfrid has more tools to keep herself sane while using them. 

[Dr. Safety]

43 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Woodie got non-gathering transformations. The only non-gathering perks of Maxwell are shadow duelist (suck) and passive sanity gain which isn't even strong enough to cover up the sanity drain from dark swords and night armor. Wigfrid has more tools to keep herself sane while using them. 

Oh I 100% agree that Maxwell needs some good magic perks. I just don't want his puppets to be scrapped completely in the process. What if Maxwell got his old sanity increase back from single player? (20 per minute instead of 6.75 per minute)

[Mr Giggio]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:15 AM, DeadWhereX said:

I would like to see his role as a gathering character completely changed or nerfed to make way for the real magic man (I can't imagine how much knowledge is in the codex umbra, and yet it's only used to gather wood and marble).

[SapoLover]

omg, didn't know about that quote. But we see him summoning shadow puppets and enhancing Wolfgang's strenght, so that would imply he's able to use it, but not at its max potential (I don't know much about lore). However, the rework/refresh could be based on something that  happened afterwards (like Woodie's), and by then he'd... know how to use it more properly. (idk, there are so many things that could happen in a magic world to justiffy a power up)

2 hours ago, MrSoratori said:

Spoiler

 

[maxwell_winters]

11 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

I just don't want his puppets to be scrapped completely in the process.

Don't worry about it. Reworks never took away the character perks, they added additional abilities. The only exception was Wolfgang's speed bonus, which is another can of works. 

11 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

What if Maxwell got his old sanity increase back from single player? (20 per minute instead of 6.75 per minute)

I think he should get a total control over his sanity gain/drain. Like a sacrifice ritual. Kill a rabbit for a small sanity gain, kill a koalefant for bigger sanity gain, for example.

The other untapped magical niches I can think of are head slot shadow armor, cursing mobs to deal less damage, resurrecting fallen followers.

[Cyber_Joueur]

Quote

cursing mobs to deal less damage

I love the idea of cursing mobs, it fits perfectly with the image I have of maxwell!

Here are some ideas I had for his rework.
I'd like to get some feedback on these :

- During boss fights it could automatically absorb with the Codex Umbra 10% of the maximum life of a boss at the beginning of the fight (not cumulative with several Maxwell)

- It would have a special interaction with the stage hand (I imagined a kind of shadow procession, a bit like on the back of a beefalo but not able to carry anything and defended by terror beaks) a kind of last resort that maxwell would have hidden underneath, in case of problems.

- Special interactions with the Ancient Fuelweaver, the Ancient Guardian, the Shadow Pieces and the twins (they are summoned with nightmare fuel) these bosses, once defeated could become summons for Maxwell as fighters (not with their actual stats of course), they would allow an interesting progression curve in my opinion.

- Like wickerbottom he could make the new moon appear with the Codex Umbra

- from the point of view of Lore Maxwell feels safe when he has the Codex Umbra on him, this could be reflected in game with a 10% reduction of all damage received (as seen in wolfgang's shorts, when he keeps it preciously with him)

- As Maxwell is fragile, he could benefit from a free resurrection, on one of his statues for example.

- I would like to see him become the new character with a progression throughout the game (WX used to fill this role, before their rework) he would become stronger and stronger.

- In return the Gestalt and Greater Gestalt would always be aggressive towards him.

As we know the excessive use of nightmare fuel was fatal to the ancients, why not mirror it with Maxwell who would have a negative impact by using it too much? Why not a very powerful but uncontrollable, temporary transformation (as already proposed on another topic), which would attack everything living within its reach (why not even allies, very risky against Klaus)

Of course what I propose is not necessarily the most balanced and I'm sure that Klei already has great ideas in mind to offer us an incredible rework.

[loopuleasa]

Shadow automation.

I want to play Factorio.

[DajeKotlyar]

Integrating Maxwell Memes tread directly into the game. To access you need to click on codex umbra

[Spirit Glow]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Cyber_Joueur said:

 

- Special interactions with the Ancient Fuelweaver, the Ancient Guardian, the Shadow Pieces and the twins (they are summoned with nightmare fuel) these bosses, once defeated could become summons for Maxwell as fighters (not with their actual stats of course), they would allow an interesting progression curve in my opinion.

 

Something like this would actually be an amazing concept, being able to create shadow versions of other mobs (with reduced stats) to fight for you. It would be like creating shadow clockwork pieces but with other kinds of mobs. Would still keep his identity as a shadow puppet summoner but with a lot more potential. 

[maxwell_winters]

1 hour ago, Spirit Glow said:

Something like this would actually be an amazing concept, being able to create shadow versions of other mobs (with reduced stats) to fight for you. It would be like creating shadow clockwork pieces but with other kinds of mobs. Would still keep his identity as a shadow puppet summoner but with a lot more potential. 

Imo it seems fun on paper but in the end, it will turn him into yet another strictly summoner character which we have enough already.

[Spirit Glow]

9 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Imo it seems fun on paper but in the end, it will turn him into yet another strictly summoner character which we have enough already.

I disagree, i think it could make for an interesting mechanic and it doesn't have to replace his current shadow workers. I don't think it will make him any less worse than he is now and would be different enough to distinguish him from other characters if done correctly. 

[Castaccio]

@Cyber_Joueur

Quote

 

- It would have a special interaction with the stage hand

- Special interactions with the...Shadow Pieces...once defeated [they] could become summons for Maxwell as fighters (not with their actual stats of course), they would allow an interesting progression curve in my opinion.

- Like wickerbottom he could make the new moon appear with the Codex Umbra

- I would like to see him become the new character with a progression throughout the game (WX used to fill this role, before their rework) he would become stronger and stronger.

- In return the Gestalt and Greater Gestalt would always be aggressive towards him.

 

I love these ideas in particular; they'd help to tie in more of his past to the current storyline, and they seem like so much fun!

[Mr_Vol]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:48 PM, Cyber_Joueur said:

- It would have a special interaction with the stage hand

That is a cool idea, you could make the Stage Hand a crafting station to unlock a different shadow like a Gathering Shadow or a shadow that holds you light lol.

There could be a item hidden under the table for Maxwell as a failsafe for when he got off the Throne. 

[JJ0264]

Maxwell Refreshed:  hunger: 150, brains: 200 (+ 6.67 per/min), health: 75

(Has codex umbra + 6 nightmare fuel)

+ codex umbra can spawn (chopper, miner, digger, dualist, boomerang, harvester)

~ chopper, miner, digger (recipe is the same but cost 35 instead of 40 max brains)

~ dualist (requires a spiral spear instead of basic spear, has a natural 25% armour, does 68 damage instead of 40, cost 50 instead of 70 max brains)

~ harvester [2 nightmare fuel, straw hat, 35 max brains] - harvest things (this doesn't included stuff on the ground, has 1 slot of inventory)

~ boomerang [2 nightmare fuel, 1 boomerang, 50 max brains] - range attacker (does 40 damage, has a natural 25% armour)

 

+ when fighting which includes range (only if full max health) spawns 3 shadow dualist (for 3 dark sword swipes every now and then) similar to the Forge or Zelda

+/- can only spawn two shadow puppets of the same type but maxwell can spawn more puppets overall due to costing fewer max brains (4-5 instead of 3-4)

 

+/- get 25% more durability from magic/ancient/moon/boss items but 25% less durability from "normal" items (like ax's or log suits)

- codex umbra takes max sanity per puppet and lose 10 hp per uses

[MA7xGE]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:15 PM, Mr_Vol said:

That is a cool idea, you could make the Stage Hand a crafting station to unlock a different shadow like a Gathering Shadow or a shadow that holds you light lol.

There could be a item hidden under the table for Maxwell as a failsafe for when he got off the Throne. 

Omg YES.

I always love to see old, forgotten items gain more uses and interactions. Stage Hand is perfect for this; it has scared almost all of us as new players, so it's natural to combo it with a character which is mostly taken advantage of by senior players.

[Loonytoony]

I want this scene from the William Carter puzzles to be acknowledged again 

Like Maxwell just summoned light(maybe what the Gestalts are made of?). Either out of thin air or the lamp and its just never mentioned again