My reaction to each major change thus far

[oregu]

I'll try to give constructive feedback on this update as is. I'm not asking any questions or looking for a debate. Just my raw, unfiltered opinions. But if you have something to say about it, I don't mind.

 

Bookshelf: It's such a good item, making every book practically infinite in application, but considering the power of some books I don't really know if it would be wise. To balance it more I'd say make books more expensive (like a lot more expensive) where they should be and make them regenerate slower.

Birds of the World: Appears to be unchanged. There's not really a way to rework it anyways, other than like calling a variety of birds unconditionally, but that'd be more annoying than anything.

Applied Silviculture: Still doesn't have a limit, but I think that is appropriate since the book is pretty much useless once you got a proper lureplant farm going now w/reeds being plantable (and have already gotten all the papyrus you desire from it).

Sleepytime: It's a panflute that only costs sanity. Sounds good on paper, but even if you're fighting with bonehelm, the uses are quite limited regarding what you could use it on considering the casting animation, your dps is cut significantly so I'd call it fair. Really good for twins, though.

On Tentacles: Of all books, I really wish this was the book to be reworked because generating tentacles where you want them is more a hassle than anything. If you want to congest them in a single location it takes about 30 reads on average to just put 1. Otherwise you spawn them all in a circle and just make a ring of death thats really hard to fetch items out of. At any rate, it still shreds through the two main raid bosses still so I really wish that at least it would be more convenient to use so it has a chance at having other uses. Still don't know why people don't know why this book isn't OP for those use cases or just pretend it isn't. I only don't fully utilize it out of respect.

Horticulture 1: No reason to use this book. Don't know why it exists because the upgrade is so cheap.

Horticulture 2: Wicker's effective farming ability is now superior to Wormwood (assuming you're just comparing times to get plants alone), and I'm not sure that's the best thing... Giant plants weren't anything special if you only cared about productivity. The additional material and time to harvest crops compared to just tilling/planting more seeds you'd get from just harvesting normally. Her ability to get a lot of seeded plants were already possible (easiest in Spring) but it costed a lot of seeds and y'know, effort with the oneman/watering can. The quantity a book gives doesn't matter anyways because you can stockpile books. If I'm not growing crops for someone, I'd prefer to use the next book, though.

Angler book: This book used to the highest potential blows farming out of the water (see what I did there) when it comes to sanity/hp generation. If you're unfamiliar to the strat I'm referring to, Laknish made nice and brief vid about it. Considering it's Wicker's favorite food, that's also a nice bonus and makes sense why she'd be the 'fish farming' character, I suppose. Even if you're too lazy to get the strident, utilizing it with trawler isn't hard either. Still beats farming timewise, I think.

Overcoming Arachnophobia: Maybe good if you have issues kiting? I really don't know if it's worth making because even for bosses the strat is usually just tanking. The use case would be far too specific for it to be useful in the grand scheme of things.

End is Nigh: Since WX update it's gone to completely useless. The chances of a WX messing up and a Wicker being in the proximity is quite low. It's not even good as a griefing tool because you'll likely make more fires just using a torch. It really doesn't fit Wicker's character at all either, imo. She doesn't seem the type to write something that would have this effect.

Pyrokinetic: Utterly useless. Not having fire protection where it should be is a really foolish mistake and you likely won't have the book in your hotbar by the time a fire finishes (why would you constantly carry it, either). Firestaff is already a near useless item so why would a firepen be any better. The fact since this is an 'upgrade', a firestaff being cheaper is the cherry on top.

Everything Encyclopedia: Carrying a science machine (or alchemy in max's case) wherever you go really doesn't have a benefit unless you're going somewhat nomadic, but considering you need a library to regenerate the book which has to be in a singular location (I personally wouldn't pay more gold just to prototype stuff). Like a lot of other books, its use case is also far too situational to see myself getting much utilization out of it. I really would like to see it other than a ticket past the chore of catching rabbits, but nope. That's all it is, I guess. Other than that, you can make red amulets early but y'know that's just for Wig and whatnot.

Tempering: Heat/coolness is free once you're near base (or you can just light something in winter if you're not). It doesn't even bring you to the ideal temperature, only halfway. I really don't even know how to begin thinking of a use for this book. Sorry.

Lunar Grimoire: Gamechanging to have worldspread light at night before moonstorms. To Woodie's dismay, though. He'll never live in peace if a Wicker is on a server, not just only ones where moonstorm is active. I know this book is definitely going to be changed, but its funny to think about. Other noteworthy changes this book will have is make pigfarms even better than they are, which is kind of hard to believe (and easier to build up). And lets you have more glommer goop for trees early on (nice, I guess?). Even if it costed something like infused moonshards and an opal, even that is too cheap... this is probably the best book she has. I would welcome it because moonstorm gestalts (or hoping rng doens't put moonstorm on your base too much) are only annoying, but you do it anyways for the light. This would be the happy medium to it.

Lux Aeterna: No reason to use this book. Don't know why it exists because the upgrade is so cheap.

Lux Redux: Why wouldn't you just save the hassle and read the Lunar Grimoire instead? I guess you can read it if you're waiting for shadow pieces but starcallers are far more effective. You don't need to fight them until you want to reset ruins, so. Ultimately useless as is.

Rain Rituals: I want really hoping that there would be a good way to prevent summer smoldering that could be used by every character, so this was kind of a disappointment. Of all the books to be removed for balancing reasons, I would say this one. Use case for pearl is only nice, telelocators really aren't expensive though.

Apicultural notes: Considering the sanity toll and how weak the bees are, I'd say right now it's all balanced. Weaker then tentacles, but also doesn't kill everyone (Unless you log off in a middle of a base ). I'd think the loyalty shouldn't be indefinite though, and the bees should fly away after a while but it doesn't matter once Wicker gets bone helm.

Synergys with Wickerbottom: Maxwell; it's an odd case where one character directly shares a certain sole benefit with only 1 other character (I know Maxwell could read books before the update but with the bookshelf you're able to benefit off it indefinitely now). I haven't really seen it demonstrated with any other character, but it's something I'd want to see more of. Too many characters only have their 'special item' that can't be shared with anyone else (Like really, nobody knows how to use a slingshot? And Walter can't cook on a lighter which he probably should've learned?). I did rant about this before during the Wolfgang update, but not many hear me out when I talk about it. Wurt; She has a whole sanity (or insanity) station now with Wicker, making her even more powerful. I really wish other players could've benefited from Wicker's update more rather than being outclassed but I'm not complaining that she's back to being top tier now, either. It's a step up from her only use before being a reed generator (before moonquay) and sack farmer (only a luxury).

Wortox: Long overdue change to be able to actually appearingly bend space/time at his will like he says he does. It's nice to have some proper stepping stone character to Wanda. Storing more souls in your inventory (like carrying killer bees) might finally have its use now, and maybe has me reconsider not scarfing all the souls down. Haven't really experimented too much w/it. Would be nice if you could teleport on a boat on the map, though.

[Parusoid]

9 minutes ago, oregu said:

now superior to Wormwood

it always was, nothing beats being able to grow 50 crops in a matter of minutes with just 10 seeds and 1 book, no water no nutrients required

[skile]

9 minutes ago, oregu said:

Would be nice if you could teleport on a boat on the map, though.

Would be awesome! 

[Parusoid]

16 minutes ago, oregu said:

Why wouldn't you just save the hassle and read the Lunar Grimoire instead?

cuz lunar does not work in caves

16 minutes ago, oregu said:

I really don't even know how to begin thinking of a use for this book

instant drying off of you, players around and items, and also waterproofness

16 minutes ago, oregu said:

It's a panflute that only costs sanity

it has actually two times the range of panflute

16 minutes ago, oregu said:

No reason to use this book. Don't know why it exists because the upgrade is so cheap.

cuz upgraded only affects 45 entities rather than 50

16 minutes ago, oregu said:

To Woodie's dismay, though. He'll never live in peace if a Wicker is on a server,

suddenly everyone cares about woodie, come on, whats next? not eating meatbals cuz wigrid cant eat potatos?

18 minutes ago, oregu said:

to be removed

whoa easy cowboy

[maxwell_winters]

I agree with almost everything you said. 

Lunar Grimoire: "The balance faction" of this forum has almost agreed upon an iridescent gem in the recipe. And the consensus is that the book shouldn't alter the lunar cycle.

Rain rituals: It wasn't discussed enough because everyone is focused on the Grimoire. However, I think the recipe is too cheap and it shouldn't be able to stop the rain. I would split it into two books. The cheaper one would start a short rain which would be just enough to water the crops. The updated one would also be able to stop the rain. If they're to add an item that can summon longer rains, it definitely should be a boss drop for every character to use. 

Overcoming Arachnophobia: I would suggest significantly increasing  the web durability, but adding spiderhat to the recipe.I think the more expensive and somewhat usable book is better than the cheap and barely usable one.

Horticulture 2: Honestly, it needs something else in the recipe. And this book would probably cause an uproar because it made Wormwood less efficient, considering he's not the best character for speed after WX's rework, too. 

[oregu]

Just now, Parusoid said:

it always was, nothing beats being able to grow 50 crops in a matter of minutes with just 10 seeds and 1 book, no water no nutrients required

Before it took too much prep to get crops going and sewing time and time to collect seeds were too much to make using the book worth it to me over Wormwood where you can just plant and forget about it until later.

[Parusoid]

7 minutes ago, oregu said:

Before it took too much prep to get crops going and sewing time and time to collect seeds were too much to make using the book worth it to me over Wormwood where you can just plant and forget about it until later.

youre not making sense

8 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Lunar Grimoire: "The balance faction" of this forum has almost agreed upon an iridescent gem in the recipe. And the consensus is that the book shouldn't alter the lunar cycle.

actually the faction agreed upon doubling the moon rock cost cuz iri gem is just over the top

8 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Wormwood less efficient

the only advantage wormwood has is that his tending animation is faster and can tend passively in spring or after using item (so anyone might as well use one mans band), and tending does not matter with books since you cant grow oversized anyway

[oregu]

You can just get an irri gem from the archives... I'd argue that would be even cheaper than moonrocks if you're putting it into the portal.

[maxwell_winters]

2 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

actually the faction agreed upon doubling the moon rock cost cuz iri gem is just over the top

You will soon advocate for it being a starting item with no durability. 

[Parusoid]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

You will soon advocate for it being a starting item with no durability. 

is that a threat or are you fortune teller?

[oregu]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

Rain rituals: It wasn't discussed enough because everyone is focused on the Grimoire. However, I think the recipe is too cheap and it shouldn't be able to stop the rain. I would split it into two books. The cheaper one would start a short rain which would be just enough to water the crops. The updated one would also be able to stop the rain. If they're to add an item that can summon longer rains, it definitely should be a boss drop for every character to use. 

Overcoming Arachnophobia: I would suggest significantly increasing  the web durability, but adding spiderhat to the recipe.I think the more expensive and somewhat usable book is better than the cheap and barely usable one.

 

I'm more concerned about the preventing summer smolder part that rain inherently has, and mildly about the sanctity of WX players in the summer because of this. I wasn't even aware the web had a durability unless you're talking about how long it lasts.

[maxwell_winters]

2 minutes ago, oregu said:

You can just get an irri gem from the archives... I'd argue that would be even cheaper than moonrocks if you're putting it into the portal.

Kinda, but it would still make players use the book more cautiously. Klei can also make the irri gems in the archives unpickable. Their purpose in the archives is just to show what item you need. 

[oregu]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

Kinda, but it would still make players use the book more cautiously. Klei can also make the irri gems in the archives unpickable. Their purpose in the archives is just to show what item you need. 

Would be a weird change for sure, but hey. Another reason to rush ruins, I suppose. I both would and wouldn't mind it. Mainly i have issues trusting ppl with most resources in the ruins. Opal by day 11, I suppose. xD

[ShadowDuelist]

32 minutes ago, oregu said:

Sleepytime: It's a panflute that only costs sanity. Sounds good on paper, but even if you're fighting with bonehelm, the uses are quite limited regarding what you could use it on considering the casting animation, your dps is cut significantly so I'd call it fair. Really good for twins, though.

Its an amazing item and its much stronger than the panflute, both in range and duration.

 

33 minutes ago, oregu said:

On Tentacles: Of all books, I really wish this was the book to be reworked because generating tentacles where you want them is more a hassle than anything. If you want to congest them in a single location it takes about 30 reads on average to just put 1. Otherwise you spawn them all in a circle and just make a ring of death thats really hard to fetch items out of. At any rate, it still shreds through the two main raid bosses still so I really wish that at least it would be more convenient to use so it has a chance at having other uses. Still don't know why people don't know why this book isn't OP for those use cases or just pretend it isn't. I only don't fully utilize it out of respect.

Still the best book Wicker has, so many things can be done with it. I  strongly recommend OP to check older guides or Clwnbaby videos about its uses.

34 minutes ago, oregu said:

Everything Encyclopedia: Carrying a science machine (or alchemy in max's case) wherever you go really doesn't have a benefit unless you're going somewhat nomadic, but considering you need a library to regenerate the book which has to be in a singular location (I personally wouldn't pay more gold just to prototype stuff). Like a lot of other books, its use case is also far too situational to see myself getting much utilization out of it. I really would like to see it other than a ticket past the chore of catching rabbits, but nope. That's all it is, I guess. Other than that, you can make red amulets early but y'know that's just for Wig and whatnot.

That is not how you use this book at all. Wicker can get alchemy tier with just a science machine which is a dirt cheap thing you can craft on day one anywhere.
The book is a very cheap and portable way to craft a shadow manipulator as soon as you get the materials for it, without having to make a prestihatitator. It also allows you to craft any tier 1 magic item you may need on the go in the very first few days of the game.
And as a bonus, you can share the tier one magic and tier one science with others.

It's an amazing early game book.

 

39 minutes ago, oregu said:

Tempering: Heat/coolness is free once you're near base (or you can just light something in winter if you're not). It doesn't even bring you to the ideal temperature, only halfway. I really don't even know how to begin thinking of a use for this book. Sorry.

Time saving. it makes you instantly dry and at comforting temperature. With proper insulation you can keep going in some battles and situations where you'd be freezing or overheating for longer, allowing you to save a lot of HP and sanity damage.

 

10 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Lunar Grimoire: "The balance faction" of this forum has almost agreed upon an iridescent gem in the recipe. And the consensus is that the book shouldn't alter the lunar cycle.

Please NO. Not only that's ridiculously expensive, it will make all wickerbottoms just rush the archives to steal the iridiscent gems and make everyone else's life miserable by having to create and deconstruct 3 mooncallers before they can keep going into celestial's questline. 

44 minutes ago, oregu said:

Lux Aeterna: No reason to use this book. Don't know why it exists because the upgrade is so cheap.

Lux Redux: Why wouldn't you just save the hassle and read the Lunar Grimoire instead? I guess you can read it if you're waiting for shadow pieces but starcallers are far more effective. You don't need to fight them until you want to reset ruins, so. Ultimately useless as is.

Have you even played with these books? With all due respect.. these suggestions seem to come from someone who just used freecraft and tested them for 2 minutes.
Both are super useful books and can be used differently. The first one is a cheaper version you can start using right away, and before its broken or almost broken, use to craft the second book. This book does not require you to go to the ruins and is far easier to renew and keep with perma light some areas once you get 3 of them. Don't forget the caves and the ruins are a thing, where full moon means nothing.

45 minutes ago, oregu said:

Rain Rituals: I want really hoping that there would be a good way to prevent summer smoldering that could be used by every character, so this was kind of a disappointment. Of all the books to be removed for balancing reasons, I would say this one. Use case for pearl is only nice, telelocators really aren't expensive though.

This is the best new book Wicker got because it synergizes with electric damage. It also allows you to control long rains of spring, Stop frog rains, water your plants and prevent smoldering in summer, stop cave rains of winter, among many other things.

[oregu]

Just now, ShadowDuelist said:

Its an amazing item and its much stronger than the panflute, both in range and duration.

 

Still the best book Wicker has, so many things can be done with it. I  strongly recommend OP to check older guides or Clwnbaby videos about its uses.

That is not how you use this book at all. Wicker can get alchemy tier with just a science machine which is a dirt cheap thing you can craft on day one anywhere.
The book is a very cheap and portable way to craft a shadow manipulator as soon as you get the materials for it, without having to make a prestihatitator. It also allows you to craft any tier 1 magic item you may need on the go in the very first few days of the game.
And as a bonus, you can share the tier one magic and tier one science with others.

It's an amazing early game book.

 

Time saving. it makes you instantly dry and at comforting temperature. With proper insulation you can keep going in some battles and situations where you'd be freezing or overheating for longer, allowing you to save a lot of HP and sanity damage.

 

Please NO. Not only that's ridiculously expensive, it will make all wickerbottoms just rush the archives to steal the iridiscent gems and make everyone else's life miserable by having to create and deconstruct 3 mooncallers before they can keep going into celestial's questline. 

Have you even played with these books? With all due respect.. these suggestions seem to come from someone who just used freecraft and tested them for 2 minutes.
Both are super useful books and can be used differently. The first one is a cheaper version you can start using right away, and before its broken or almost broken, use to craft the second book. This book does not require you to go to the ruins and is far easier to renew and keep with perma light some areas once you get 3 of them. Don't forget the caves and the ruins are a thing, where full moon means nothing.

This is the best new book Wicker got because it synergizes with electric damage. It also allows you to control long rains of spring, Stop frog rains, water your plants and prevent smoldering in summer, stop cave rains of winter, among many other things.

The everything book can only be read 5 times, then it has to be stowed in a library or you pay more gold to proto stuff away from base, which you don't do most the time, mind you. What I meant by 'ticket past catching rabbits is what you described with the magic thing.
How is the comfort book time saving rather than carrying the actual items you need for the seasons with you. It costs sanity, as well.
Maybe we just play different but why would I use the book over a lantern/minerhat in the caves.... it seems a bit excessive. I only visit caves for bunnies other than ruins, and that has light... I never said the rain or sleepy book is bad, mind you. I just don't see it as that balanced, haha.

[Mysterious box]

52 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

suddenly everyone cares about woodie, come on, whats next? not eating meatbals cuz wigrid cant eat potatos?

Cause screw people who like Woodie am I right? He's not viable like Wickerbottom anyway.

[ShadowDuelist]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Cause screw people who like Woodie am I right? He's not viable like Wickerbottom anyway.

Woodie has been on a horrible trend since a lot of updates ago, and despite getting a tiny buff with the idols not spoiling anymore, everything seems to be bad news for Woodies lately. 
He's probably deserving QOL changes in a future update, much like Wormwood, Wurt, and now Wortox got. But those are changes that need to be made on Woodie, not Wickerbottom, IMO.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, ShadowDuelist said:

Woodie has been on a horrible trend since a lot of updates ago, and despite getting a tiny buff with the idols not spoiling anymore, everything seems to be bad news for Woodies lately. 
He's probably deserving QOL changes in a future update, much like Wormwood, Wurt, and now Wortox got.

I know I still play him personally it's just the way he phrased that rubbed me the wrong way it felt like saying it's not like Woodie is popular why should it matter if he has a bad time.

[maxwell_winters]

15 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Please NO. Not only that's ridiculously expensive, it will make all wickerbottoms just rush the archives to steal the iridiscent gems and make everyone else's life miserable by having to create and deconstruct 3 mooncallers before they can keep going into celestial's questline. 

What is the issue with locking powerful items behind the high price? The game has a lot of crappy items with high price (Houndius Shootius requires 2 boss drops, is it even worth it?). Why should only Wicker get powerful items for cheap? In that way, new players won't manipulate the forces they don't fully understand and the experienced ones could rush the irri gem early on anyway. However, if the irri gem indeed becomes the crafting ingredient, 2 gems in archives should become unpickable. As I said, their purpose is just to show what item you need. 

[Creatorofswamps]

32 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Kinda, but it would still make players use the book more cautiously. Klei can also make the irri gems in the archives unpickable. Their purpose in the archives is just to show what item you need. 

oh my God, just add banana, figs and Moon Shard to the recipe. It sounds strange, but believe me, it will throw off the use in the early days, but when you find biomes with resources, it will not be difficult to resume books (+ motrivation and ocean exploration)

[skile]

11 minutes ago, oregu said:

The everything book can only be read 5 times, then it has to be stowed in a library or you pay more gold to proto stuff away from base, which you don't do most the time, mind you. What I meant by 'ticket past catching rabbits is what you described with the magic thing.

unless it was changed, Try everything encyclopedia can give you access to shadow manipulator tier crafts if you stand near alchemy engine or a bookshelf while under book' s effect(as far as i understand, it gives you +2 science tier knowledge with tier 1 of magic being tier 3, and tier 2 if magic being tier 4)

also doesn't it affect other players near you as well? it might be helpful for rushing alarming clock as Wanda. 

[maxwell_winters]

Just now, Creatorofswamps said:

oh my God, just add banana, figs and Moon Shard to the recipe. It sounds strange, but believe me, it will throw off the use in the early days, but when you find biomes with resources, it will not be difficult to resume books (+ motrivation and ocean exploration)

Bananas and figs make no sense in this recipe. This is not an agricultural book. There must be logic in the recipe. 

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, skile said:

unless it was changed, Try everything encyclopedia can give you access to shadow manipulator tier crafts if you stand near alchemy engine or a bookshelf while under book' s effect(as far as i understand, it gives you +2 science tier knowledge with tier 1 of magic being tier 3, and tier 2 if magic being tier 4)

Wait what???

[oregu]

Just now, skile said:

unless it was changed, Try everything encyclopedia can give you access to shadow manipulator tier crafts if you stand near alchemy engine or a bookshelf while under book' s effect(as far as i understand, it gives you +2 science tier knowledge with tier 1 of magic being tier 3, and tier 2 if magic being tier 4)

also doesn't it affect other players near you as well? it might be helpful for rushing alarming clock as Wanda. 

I don't have friends to experiment these books with. That would just be a niche way to help another character though could go under wig's amulet and whatnot, so nice.

[Creatorofswamps]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

Бананы и инжир в этом рецепте не имеют смысла. Это не сельскохозяйственная книга. В рецепте должна быть логика. 

This is just an example of how to properly prohibit the use in the first days, everything is much simpler and more logical: moon lawn, cave moon lawn, moon shard and moonstone. And we do it on the lunar ideal