Maxwell rework ideas

[King Maxwell]

A while ago I posted my ideas for the maxwell rework in the suggestions tab today after some feedbacks I made a new post, I'm looking for some opinions and that's why posting here too, I realize that more people comment here.
Forgive me if I make a lot of mistakes, I don't speak English.

After the feedbacks I will give a new idea of rework, this time instead of free thoughts I will try to give a complete idea of how I would do the rework.

• It is no longer necessary to drop the codex umbra to create the shadows, just have it in your inventory.
  Shadow creation animation like DS single player.
  Having to drop the item is unintuitive and practical and the single player animation is nicer.
• Feeding the codex umbra with 40 Nightmare Fuel will reduce the cost of Shadows to 2 Nightmare Fuel.
  I wish I didn't have to carry flint for my shadows at the end game.

• If you have shadows and you right click on the codex umbra, the shadows will jump to the codex umbra being stored until called again, the sanity penalty continues with the stored shadows.
  If you have shadows stored in the codex umbra and you right click on it, the shadows will pop out.
  Greater shadow control, much needed.

• Maxwell gains +25% damage with shadow weapons.
  A damage increase with shadow weapons would be nice, showing his knowledge of shadows and a little more damage is nice for the 75 hp.

• Shadow items used by maxwell have +25% durability.
  Again, more durability to demonstrate your knowledge of shadows and having night armor and dark sword with a little more durability is very useful.

• Maxwell loses 25% less sanity when using shadow items.
  Maxwell shouldn't lose the same amount of sanity as other survivors when using shadow items.

• 3 new items exclusive to maxwell.
  -Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68 (34 when out of fuel) 80 durability, can be refilled with Nightmare Fuel, Nightmare Fuel recharges 25%.
  Crafting: 1 dark sword, 5 nightmare fuel, 1 walking cane, 1 purple Gem 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A weapon to show Maxwell's majesty.
  
  -Dark Cloak: 10% damage reduction 8 inventory slots is fireproof, cannot be placed in inventory or chests.
  Crafting: 1 night armor, 2 nightmare fuel, 1 piggyback, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A more stylish backpack giving a more majestic look to the ex king maxwell, I would like the 10% hp reduction just to avoid depths worm ik is really annoying when I'm distracted in the caves and I take ik.
  
  -Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
  Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.

This would be the rework I would give at maxwell, I would like your opinion on my rework idea.
original post link:

 

[Antynomity]

I like these ideas a lot, they don't make maxwell into yet another swarm character, give the former shadow king himself some powerful gear and just qol changes that would make him a lot more fun and less tedious to play, great stuff.

[GodIess]

I like the idea with the shadows, make a new copy of Abigail, allowing the shadows to hide in the book in case of danger, and also make the shadows switchable modes.
1 mode help to extract, that is, if I chop a tree, they help to chop it too
2 mode chop everything that they see themselves
swordsmen should get shadow armor and also
1 protect
2 attack everything they can

[Mr_Vol]

11 hours ago, King Maxwell said:

Maxwell gains +25% damage with shadow weapons.
A damage increase with shadow weapons would be nice, showing his knowledge of shadows and a little more damage is nice for the 75 hp.

Maybe have Maxwell be able to make a new version of the dark sword and Nightmare armor to give him a team play feel?

Maxwell could have a boost in Staff weapons like more durability in the Star Caller's Staff and more damage in a fire and ice staff.

[hhh2]

I propose a simple Idea: allow maxwell to repair knight armor and dark sword with nightmare fuel. The rate could be 10% per nf, or something simliar to where making a new sword or armor is cheaper.

Also let him eat nightmare fuel...

[SapoLover]

21 hours ago, King Maxwell said:

-It is no longer necessary to drop the codex umbra to create the shadows, just have it in your inventory.
Shadow creation animation like DS single player.
Having to drop the item is unintuitive and practical and the single player animation is nicer.

Yes, the first time I played Maxwell I didn't know I could drop the codex. I found another Maxwell that summoned shadow workers and I was like "How do I do that?" But I was too shy to ask.

21 hours ago, King Maxwell said:

-If you have shadows and you right click on the codex umbra, the shadows will jump to the codex umbra being stored until called again, the sanity penalty continues with the stored shadows.
If you have shadows stored in the codex umbra and you right click on it, the shadows will pop out.
Greater shadow control, much needed.

This would be a very nice QoL feature.

You have good ideas.

[King Maxwell]

8 hours ago, DeadWhereX said:

Yes, the first time I played Maxwell I didn't know I could drop the codex. I found another Maxwell that summoned shadow workers and I was like "How do I do that?" But I was too shy to ask.

I went through the same thing, maxwell was the first character I played and it took me awhile to discover that he created shadows and when I found out I had to google how to do it.

13 hours ago, hhh2 said:

I propose a simple Idea: allow maxwell to repair knight armor and dark sword with nightmare fuel. The rate could be 10% per nf, or something simliar to where making a new sword or armor is cheaper.

Also let him eat nightmare fuel...

Really simple but in my opinion less interesting, but a good option.

I can see this working, maybe nightmare fuel heals maxwell by 4/5 hp and takes the same amount of sanity?

18 hours ago, Mr_Vol said:

Maybe have Maxwell be able to make a new version of the dark sword and Nightmare armor to give him a team play feel?

Maxwell could have a boost in Staff weapons like more durability in the Star Caller's Staff and more damage in a fire and ice staff.

Hello, we meet again, you also commented on my original post.
I think maxwell already supports the team well with the collection of resources I would like some more selfish advantages because I believe it would match maxwell's personality more.

[King Maxwell]

A new update of the ideas after some more feedback let me know what you think of the changes.

• It is no longer necessary to drop the codex umbra to create the shadows, just have it in your inventory.
  Shadow creation animation like DS single player.
  Having to drop the item is unintuitive and practical and the single player animation is nicer.
• Feeding the codex umbra with 40 Nightmare Fuel will reduce the cost of Shadows to 2 Nightmare Fuel.
  I wish I didn't have to carry flint for my shadows at the end game.

• If you have shadows and you right click on the codex umbra, the shadows will jump to the codex umbra being stored until called again, the sanity penalty continues with the stored shadows.
  If you have shadows stored in the codex umbra and you right click on it, the shadows will pop out.
  Greater shadow control, much needed.

• Maxwell gains +25% 20% damage with shadow weapons.
  A damage increase with shadow weapons would be nice, showing his knowledge of shadows and a little more damage is nice for the 75 hp.

• Shadow items used by maxwell have +25% durability.
  Again, more durability to demonstrate your knowledge of shadows and having night armor and dark sword with a little more durability is very useful.

• Maxwell loses 25% 35% less sanity when using shadow items.
  Maxwell shouldn't lose the same amount of sanity as other survivors when using shadow items.

• new: Maxwell can eat nightmare fuel.
  -nightmare fuel: hungry 0, sanity -5, hp 5

• 2 new items exclusive to maxwell.
  -Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68 (34 17 when out of fuel) 80 durability, can be refilled with Nightmare Fuel, Nightmare Fuel recharges 25%.
  Crafting: 1 dark sword, 5 nightmare fuel, 1 walking cane, 1 purple Gem 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A weapon to show Maxwell's majesty.
  
  -Dark Cloak: 10% 5% damage reduction 8 inventory slots is fireproof, cannot be placed in inventory or chests.
  Crafting: 1 night armor, 2 nightmare fuel, 1 piggyback, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A more stylish backpack giving a more majestic look to the ex king maxwell, I would like the 10% 5% hp reduction just to avoid depths worm ik is really annoying when I'm distracted in the caves and I take ik.
  
  -Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
  Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.
  it's a really broken item and it's better not to be added.

[loopuleasa]

I just want Maxwell to be able to control the shadows in a more intelligent manner.

I want my shadow minions to be commanded. Shown the way.

I also want more military might in my shadows. I want to be able to manually say when to attack, when to dodge.

I want to kite with my shadows.

pic related

[ShadowDuelist]

I've been thinking about Maxwell a bunch in the last few years and I've come to conclusions to what works right and what must change.

What works right:

• Summoning from the codex as a station: This is unique to Maxwell and I believe it works right. it's not as simple as reading a book which is more the wicker way, the codex perks of course could be expanded
• The worker minions working on their own: This is actually great and I REALLY hope they don't nerf it in a way where you have to show them what to do, as you would with pigs or merms. This makes Maxwell the only character who can work from the safety of a beefalo. I'll explain how the shadows being destructive could be handled, without an "on and off" button on them
• His sanity regen: I always thought was too little but actually its fine. It's not meant to be an instant recovery of sanity system, but more of a strong mind character that can bypass using a tam just to top off his sanity often. Regarding the night armor and dark sword, he just needs to take lesser sanity penalties like Old Wanda, but his sanity regen should remain the pretty much the same.
• Being able to lock himself in insanity: I am not sure if this was an unintended feature but this should definitely remain, it's actually a very important piece of Maxwell as a whole. This should even be expanded so if you lock yourself in insanity at lunar island, it should not allow you to become enlightened either (currently the way enlightenment is calculated for Maxwell is bugged)
• Being able to handle magic of other kinds, like Wicker's books. This was a genius move, and it could extend to basic use of some Wanda watches too.

Stuff that don't work right:

• Shadowduelists: Maxwell is supposed to have magical offensive capabilities but yet they don't really work, like at all. There are no situations where these dudes prove useful except for locking him in insanity.
• Not being able to handle/change minions: first let me explain something, minions are DISPOSABLE, that is you create basically infinite durability tools that work on their own from a flint tool and one fuel, with the gambling of an extra fuel if you don't take care of them. They do their job and when they are finished you despawn them (hitting them yourself) to get 1 fuel refunded. This itself is not bad but it could be improved specially when you have to make small visits to the camp and they start melting your decorative trees or the tier 1 marble shrubs.

Now for the changes I propose (not necessarily all should be implemented):

Change to the codex umbra/handling minions: The codex, as King Maxwell also said, should be able to call back and store shadow workers. I believe up to 3 minions of each kind should be stored in the codex. These stored minions should not consume max sanity and can be re-deployed at any time with no cost (will consume max sanity only when deployed) as long as you don't let them die. So you only need to invest fuel and tools if they die, and you can handle them/stop them from destroying your base by temporally putting them away, like Abigail

The Codex umbra should have a progression:

Spoiler

I believe this was explored in a mod to some extent, but these are the changes I see better. Basic codex umbra should only have Workers available.
Second tier codex umbra means Maxwell unlocks more perks from it after he gets a shadow manipulator (its an upgraded version of the book, requires the book and some crafting materials). Unlocks improved duelists and other fighters.
Third tier of codex umbra: requires second tier of umbra and an ancient pseudoscience station. Unlocks channeling perks from the codex umbra.

New shadow minions and changes to minions:

Spoiler

• New Workers:

Shadow farmer: Basically tills farms for you, and if you give it a watering can it will try to water your land 4 times per farming tile every day. It will consume water from the watering can so if the can is empty it will just become a tiller again. the watering can is not consumed, you can recover it for refilling (or it could refill by itself if you walk near a pond area)
Shadow Sailor: This minion will row your boat, but it will not work on its own, will only mimic rowing if you do, basically increasing the pull and speed of your rowing. The more sailors, the faster you will go.
Shadow porter: This is taken form Recezib's mod, a minion that has 1 or 2 inventory slot, you give it an item that stacks, and it will pick that item kind of the ground until the slot is/are full.  

• Fighters: I'd increase the max amount of fighters to 3 at any given time. you can combine them as you want but you can never have more than 3 in total (not 3 and 3)

Shadow Duelist: After seeing many suggestions I believe duelists should be extremely tanky, nigh-immortal, but unlike abigail or merms, they should not work on their own: All their aggro drawn should go to Maxwell, they will not fight or defend on their own and they will mimic your every move when fighting (kiting and attacking). They should stay super close to maxwell like true shadows, and basically increase your DPS. If you don't fight, or just hide, they won't do anything.
Shadow hunters: I think boomerang fighters could be included. These will add some ranged DPS, would not be as tanky as the duelists and could die, but they will also pull all the aggro towards Maxwell. These will stay further away from fights, more fitted when Maxwell is not dealing with things up and close. 

New Channeling Perks

Spoiler

 

Its sad that Maxwell being the king of shadows has such limited control over the codex umbra. if he unlocks more knowledge from it (like with the progression system I proposed) a higher tier, late game intended codex could maybe allow him to channel powers, that is, use strong shadow powers that he deals but he can't move while doing it (much like when you use a lazy deserter) and are limited by time. These effects could have a cooldown between uses, and also consume sanity over time, meaning that once you reach zero sanity the effect stops and you have a cooldown (even if you immediately restore sanity). Being hit by something or starving would stop the channeling too. I was thinking that during channeling, nightmare creatures should be neutral towards Maxwell (but they will be aggressive again as soon as you stop). 

Some I thought (but not limited to) are:
 

• Shadow hands: This would be an area denial, mostly intended for team work. Summons a lot of shadow hands in a large area around Maxwell and holds enemies in place. Since Maxwell can't move, other players would have to deal with whatever you are holding, or use the time to recover/revive if things are not going right. Effect stops as soon as Maxwell stops channeling.
• Shadow Army: You summon a small army of 5 shadow duelists and 3 shadow shield bearers, these shadows will fight on their own and be aggresive to all enemies in an area. They won't be very tanky and could die, but a new one will take its place after 2 seconds one dies. Shadow shield bearers will try to push smaller enemies away from Maxwell when they get too close, in a small radius. Again, Maxwell is not moving and vulnerable while doing this. They all banish as soon as Maxwell stops channeling.

 

Final Thoughts:

I don't think Maxwell should have bonus damage from dark swords or bonus defense from night armor, that's already a Wanda thing. Instead Maxwell could perhaps learn how to craft these things cheaper (perhaps after upgrading the codex) while also lowering (or removing) the sanity penalties of them for him.

[Mr_Vol]

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I've been thinking about Maxwell a bunch in the last few years and I've come to conclusions to what works right and what must change.

What works right:

• Summoning from the codex as a station: This is unique to Maxwell and I believe it works right. it's not as simple as reading a book which is more the wicker way, the codex perks of course could be expanded
• The worker minions working on their own: This is actually great and I REALLY hope they don't nerf it in a way where you have to show them what to do, as you would with pigs or merms. This makes Maxwell the only character who can work from the safety of a beefalo. I'll explain how the shadows being destructive could be handled, without an "on and off" button on them
• His sanity regen: I always thought was too little but actually its fine. It's not meant to be an instant recovery of sanity system, but more of a strong mind character that can bypass using a tam just to top off his sanity often. Regarding the night armor and dark sword, he just needs to take lesser sanity penalties like Old Wanda, but his sanity regen should remain the pretty much the same.
• Being able to lock himself in insanity: I am not sure if this was an unintended feature but this should definitely remain, it's actually a very important piece of Maxwell as a whole. This should even be expanded so if you lock yourself in insanity at lunar island, it should not allow you to become enlightened either (currently the way enlightenment is calculated for Maxwell is bugged)
• Being able to handle magic of other kinds, like Wicker's books. This was a genius move, and it could extend to basic use of some Wanda watches too.

Stuff that don't work right:

• Shadowduelists: Maxwell is supposed to have magical offensive capabilities but yet they don't really work, like at all. There are no situations where these dudes prove useful except for locking him in insanity.
• Not being able to handle/change minions: first let me explain something, minions are DISPOSABLE, that is you create basically infinite durability tools that work on their own from a flint tool and one fuel, with the gambling of an extra fuel if you don't take care of them. They do their job and when they are finished you despawn them (hitting them yourself) to get 1 fuel refunded. This itself is not bad but it could be improved specially when you have to make small visits to the camp and they start melting your decorative trees or the tier 1 marble shrubs.

Now for the changes I propose (not necessarily all should be implemented):

Change to the codex umbra/handling minions: The codex, as King Maxwell also said, should be able to call back and store shadow workers. I believe up to 3 minions of each kind should be stored in the codex. These stored minions should not consume max sanity and can be re-deployed at any time with no cost (will consume max sanity only when deployed) as long as you don't let them die. So you only need to invest fuel and tools if they die, and you can handle them/stop them from destroying your base by temporally putting them away, like Abigail

The Codex umbra should have a progression:

  Reveal hidden contents

I believe this was explored in a mod to some extent, but these are the changes I see better. Basic codex umbra should only have Workers available.
Second tier codex umbra means Maxwell unlocks more perks from it after he gets a shadow manipulator (its an upgraded version of the book, requires the book and some crafting materials). Unlocks improved duelists and other fighters.
Third tier of codex umbra: requires second tier of umbra and an ancient pseudoscience station. Unlocks channeling perks from the codex umbra.

New shadow minions and changes to minions:

  Reveal hidden contents

• New Workers:

Shadow farmer: Basically tills farms for you, and if you give it a watering can it will try to water your land 4 times per farming tile every day. It will consume water from the watering can so if the can is empty it will just become a tiller again. the watering can is not consumed, you can recover it for refilling (or it could refill by itself if you walk near a pond area)
Shadow Sailor: This minion will row your boat, but it will not work on its own, will only mimic rowing if you do, basically increasing the pull and speed of your rowing. The more sailors, the faster you will go.
Shadow porter: This is taken form Recezib's mod, a minion that has 1 or 2 inventory slot, you give it an item that stacks, and it will pick that item kind of the ground until the slot is/are full.  

• Fighters: I'd increase the max amount of fighters to 3 at any given time. you can combine them as you want but you can never have more than 3 in total (not 3 and 3)

Shadow Duelist: After seeing many suggestions I believe duelists should be extremely tanky, nigh-immortal, but unlike abigail or merms, they should not work on their own: All their aggro drawn should go to Maxwell, they will not fight or defend on their own and they will mimic your every move when fighting (kiting and attacking). They should stay super close to maxwell like true shadows, and basically increase your DPS. If you don't fight, or just hide, they won't do anything.
Shadow hunters: I think boomerang fighters could be included. These will add some ranged DPS, would not be as tanky as the duelists and could die, but they will also pull all the aggro towards Maxwell. These will stay further away from fights, more fitted when Maxwell is not dealing with things up and close. 

New Channeling Perks

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Its sad that Maxwell being the king of shadows has such limited control over the codex umbra. if he unlocks more knowledge from it (like with the progression system I proposed) a higher tier, late game intended codex could maybe allow him to channel powers, that is, use strong shadow powers that he deals but he can't move while doing it (much like when you use a lazy deserter) and are limited by time. These effects could have a cooldown between uses, and also consume sanity over time, meaning that once you reach zero sanity the effect stops and you have a cooldown (even if you immediately restore sanity). Being hit by something or starving would stop the channeling too. I was thinking that during channeling, nightmare creatures should be neutral towards Maxwell (but they will be aggressive again as soon as you stop). 

Some I thought (but not limited to) are:
 

• Shadow hands: This would be an area denial, mostly intended for team work. Summons a lot of shadow hands in a large area around Maxwell and holds enemies in place. Since Maxwell can't move, other players would have to deal with whatever you are holding, or use the time to recover/revive if things are not going right. Effect stops as soon as Maxwell stops channeling.
• Shadow Army: You summon a small army of 5 shadow duelists and 3 shadow shield bearers, these shadows will fight on their own and be aggresive to all enemies in an area. They won't be very tanky and could die, but a new one will take its place after 2 seconds one dies. Shadow shield bearers will try to push smaller enemies away from Maxwell when they get too close, in a small radius. Again, Maxwell is not moving and vulnerable while doing this. They all banish as soon as Maxwell stops channeling.

 

Final Thoughts:

I don't think Maxwell should have bonus damage from dark swords or bonus defense from night armor, that's already a Wanda thing. Instead Maxwell could perhaps learn how to craft these things cheaper (perhaps after upgrading the codex) while also lowering (or removing) the sanity penalties of them for him.

I love all these ideas Maxwell except the storing of the shadows in your book and the negate lose of sanity when using a Dark sword or night armor

I feel that storing your shadows is a bit powerful when your on the lunar island or in the caves and even when your worker spawns a tree Guardian.

I do want my shadows workers just to work without informing them what to do but I feel a toggle Work/Stand-by will be the way to go (showing a Stand-by worker with no tools in hand).

Although it would be nice walking into base and not looking at if your workers are on Stand-by....

[King Maxwell]

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I've been thinking about Maxwell a bunch in the last few years and I've come to conclusions to what works right and what must change.

What works right:

• Summoning from the codex as a station: This is unique to Maxwell and I believe it works right. it's not as simple as reading a book which is more the wicker way, the codex perks of course could be expanded
• The worker minions working on their own: This is actually great and I REALLY hope they don't nerf it in a way where you have to show them what to do, as you would with pigs or merms. This makes Maxwell the only character who can work from the safety of a beefalo. I'll explain how the shadows being destructive could be handled, without an "on and off" button on them
• His sanity regen: I always thought was too little but actually its fine. It's not meant to be an instant recovery of sanity system, but more of a strong mind character that can bypass using a tam just to top off his sanity often. Regarding the night armor and dark sword, he just needs to take lesser sanity penalties like Old Wanda, but his sanity regen should remain the pretty much the same.
• Being able to lock himself in insanity: I am not sure if this was an unintended feature but this should definitely remain, it's actually a very important piece of Maxwell as a whole. This should even be expanded so if you lock yourself in insanity at lunar island, it should not allow you to become enlightened either (currently the way enlightenment is calculated for Maxwell is bugged)
• Being able to handle magic of other kinds, like Wicker's books. This was a genius move, and it could extend to basic use of some Wanda watches too.

Stuff that don't work right:

• Shadowduelists: Maxwell is supposed to have magical offensive capabilities but yet they don't really work, like at all. There are no situations where these dudes prove useful except for locking him in insanity.
• Not being able to handle/change minions: first let me explain something, minions are DISPOSABLE, that is you create basically infinite durability tools that work on their own from a flint tool and one fuel, with the gambling of an extra fuel if you don't take care of them. They do their job and when they are finished you despawn them (hitting them yourself) to get 1 fuel refunded. This itself is not bad but it could be improved specially when you have to make small visits to the camp and they start melting your decorative trees or the tier 1 marble shrubs.

I agree with everything without any reservations except that the codex umbra as a station works, it's not a problem but I wouldn't say it works either.

2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Change to the codex umbra/handling minions: The codex, as King Maxwell also said, should be able to call back and store shadow workers. I believe up to 3 minions of each kind should be stored in the codex. These stored minions should not consume max sanity and can be re-deployed at any time with no cost (will consume max sanity only when deployed) as long as you don't let them die. So you only need to invest fuel and tools if they die, and you can handle them/stop them from destroying your base by temporally putting them away, like Abigail

The idea is the same as mine and I like it is the way I believe it would be better to control the shadows, I would keep the maximum sanity penalty, removing the penalty you would have axes / pickaxes / shovel / duelists (The one I see more problematic ) at no cost and always on hand with the sanity penalty you can always have them on hand too but you'll have to deal with being closer to insanity even if you're not using them and it makes duelists more useful as they help with atks of dogs, spiders, bees and small mobs but it's not worth making the duelists to kill them and after that destroy them but being able to store them you open a choice to have them at these times in exchange for being close to insanity you can walk with 2 duelists ready to be called at the time of combat against these mobs.
Storing 3 of each shadow is already op, you now have everything for free seems a little too strong to me, still I think they should be disposable just giving you the choice to keep some in exchange for your maximum sanity and giving you extra control over they, after all, if they are inside the book, will not destroy its decoration.

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The Codex umbra should have a progression:

  Hide contents

I believe this was explored in a mod to some extent, but these are the changes I see better. Basic codex umbra should only have Workers available.
Second tier codex umbra means Maxwell unlocks more perks from it after he gets a shadow manipulator (its an upgraded version of the book, requires the book and some crafting materials). Unlocks improved duelists and other fighters.
Third tier of codex umbra: requires second tier of umbra and an ancient pseudoscience station. Unlocks channeling perks from the codex umbra.

New shadow minions and changes to minions:

  Hide contents

• New Workers:

Shadow farmer: Basically tills farms for you, and if you give it a watering can it will try to water your land 4 times per farming tile every day. It will consume water from the watering can so if the can is empty it will just become a tiller again. the watering can is not consumed, you can recover it for refilling (or it could refill by itself if you walk near a pond area)
Shadow Sailor: This minion will row your boat, but it will not work on its own, will only mimic rowing if you do, basically increasing the pull and speed of your rowing. The more sailors, the faster you will go.
Shadow porter: This is taken form Recezib's mod, a minion that has 1 or 2 inventory slot, you give it an item that stacks, and it will pick that item kind of the ground until the slot is/are full.  

• Fighters: I'd increase the max amount of fighters to 3 at any given time. you can combine them as you want but you can never have more than 3 in total (not 3 and 3)

Shadow Duelist: After seeing many suggestions I believe duelists should be extremely tanky, nigh-immortal, but unlike abigail or merms, they should not work on their own: All their aggro drawn should go to Maxwell, they will not fight or defend on their own and they will mimic your every move when fighting (kiting and attacking). They should stay super close to maxwell like true shadows, and basically increase your DPS. If you don't fight, or just hide, they won't do anything.
Shadow hunters: I think boomerang fighters could be included. These will add some ranged DPS, would not be as tanky as the duelists and could die, but they will also pull all the aggro towards Maxwell. These will stay further away from fights, more fitted when Maxwell is not dealing with things up and close. 

 

I really like these ideas with the exception of shadow hunters, could you develop them a little more? Like materials to upgrade codex, shadow cost, sanity penalty, damage, etc?

 

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

New Channeling Perks

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Its sad that Maxwell being the king of shadows has such limited control over the codex umbra. if he unlocks more knowledge from it (like with the progression system I proposed) a higher tier, late game intended codex could maybe allow him to channel powers, that is, use strong shadow powers that he deals but he can't move while doing it (much like when you use a lazy deserter) and are limited by time. These effects could have a cooldown between uses, and also consume sanity over time, meaning that once you reach zero sanity the effect stops and you have a cooldown (even if you immediately restore sanity). Being hit by something or starving would stop the channeling too. I was thinking that during channeling, nightmare creatures should be neutral towards Maxwell (but they will be aggressive again as soon as you stop). 

Some I thought (but not limited to) are:
 

• Shadow hands: This would be an area denial, mostly intended for team work. Summons a lot of shadow hands in a large area around Maxwell and holds enemies in place. Since Maxwell can't move, other players would have to deal with whatever you are holding, or use the time to recover/revive if things are not going right. Effect stops as soon as Maxwell stops channeling.
• Shadow Army: You summon a small army of 5 shadow duelists and 3 shadow shield bearers, these shadows will fight on their own and be aggresive to all enemies in an area. They won't be very tanky and could die, but a new one will take its place after 2 seconds one dies. Shadow shield bearers will try to push smaller enemies away from Maxwell when they get too close, in a small radius. Again, Maxwell is not moving and vulnerable while doing this. They all banish as soon as Maxwell stops channeling.

 

I found the concept very interesting and would like to see more development along this path, take advantage of what you suggested and let your imagination run wild and develop this mechanic well, I don't like the spells presented but the concept itself is pretty cool.

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Final Thoughts:

I don't think Maxwell should have bonus damage from dark swords or bonus defense from night armor, that's already a Wanda thing. Instead Maxwell could perhaps learn how to craft these things cheaper (perhaps after upgrading the codex) while also lowering (or removing) the sanity penalties of them for him.

 

With your shadow duelist idea being well crafted I also don't think maxwell should have a damage bonus, without it I think it should, I also think it should have increased durability and penalty reduction he is the one who knows the shadow magic best, for more that is something of wanda can be something of maxwell also would not be exactly the same and they would still have their own other things.
Create a new "dark sword" I like, even in my suggestion I would have a new "dark sword" exclusive but I still prefer it to be a real scepter.

I don't know if I managed to express myself exactly as I would like, it's difficult to pass all the reasoning in a language I don't speak but I would love to see more development of your ideas.

[ShadowDuelist]

35 minutes ago, King Maxwell said:

Storing 3 of each shadow is already op, you now have everything for free seems a little too strong to me, still I think they should be disposable just giving you the choice to keep some in exchange for your maximum sanity and giving you extra control over they, after all, if they are inside the book, will not destroy its decoration.

Initial cost could be increased, perhaps to 3 nightmare fuel instead of 2. So if you die while they are out, or they are killed, the loss in fuel would be a penalty in itself. As long as you take care of your minions, not using fuel would be the reward.

35 minutes ago, King Maxwell said:

I really like these ideas with the exception of shadow hunters, could you develop them a little more? Like materials to upgrade codex, shadow cost, sanity penalty, damage, etc?

I think I was too specific already and I don't really like making stuff too specific in numbers since everything may sound great written but when applied ot the game it could be either OP or underwhelming. I would let the fine tuning up to klei, my general idea for upgrading the codex would probably be something like 10 fuel 1 purple gem for the first tier, and 10 more fuel and 2 thulecite for the second (could look like a nightmarish book framed in thulecite). Or something like that.

My idea for shadow hunters are mostly ranged DPS to draw aggro, or add damage safely. They shouldn't deal much damage (the boomerang doesn't). If you think you, or the melee duelists would get hit a lot (for example during a boss fight) you'd have a safer option to add DPS with a ranged minion. 

 

On 4/18/2022 at 10:34 PM, King Maxwell said:

-Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68 (34 when out of fuel) 80 durability, can be refilled with Nightmare Fuel, Nightmare Fuel recharges 25%.
Crafting: 1 dark sword, 5 nightmare fuel, 1 walking cane, 1 purple Gem 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
A weapon to show Maxwell's majesty.

Even though I like the idea of maxwell having his own refuelable dark sword, I think it would have been great if Wanda wasn't a thing. With Wanda having literally the same perk, I don't think he should go that way.
A unique craft with the codex umbra of being able to make dark swords out of 4 nightmare fuel and 30 health, for example, could be made instead, and keep Maxwell different from most characters.

On 4/18/2022 at 10:34 PM, King Maxwell said:

-Dark Cloak: 10% damage reduction 8 inventory slots is fireproof, cannot be placed in inventory or chests.
Crafting: 1 night armor, 2 nightmare fuel, 1 piggyback, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
A more stylish backpack giving a more majestic look to the ex king maxwell, I would like the 10% hp reduction just to avoid depths worm ik is really annoying when I'm distracted in the caves and I take ik.

-Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.

I was thinking about something more like the vortex cloak of hamlet, but nerfed to DST. That is, a nightmare armor that also works as a backpack.

In hamlet this armor is extremely powerful because its a boss reward, as a Maxwell craft it could maybe be an 80% armor that has 6 backpack slots and that can be repaired with fuel. It wouldn't be the best armor, but it could be an interesting option, specially for the early game of weaker characters.

[King Maxwell]

13 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Initial cost could be increased, perhaps to 3 nightmare fuel instead of 2. So if you die while they are out, or they are killed, the loss in fuel would be a penalty in itself. As long as you take care of your minions, not using fuel would be the reward.

I still think op, keeping the shadows alive would be pretty easy and "punishment" for not managing it small, maybe raising the nightmare fuel cost considerably like 6 but I still prefer a disposable worker approach.

 

16 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I think I was too specific already and would let the fine tuning up to klei, My idea for upgrading the codex would probably be something like 10 fuel 1 purple gem for the first tier, and 10 more fuel and 2 thulecite for the second (could look like a nightmarish book framed in thulecite). Or something like that.

Well I'm going to think about these details a bit, I'm trying to create an amazing rework that klei would like to copy literally and I'm thinking about all the details so the more opinions the better.
I liked your update items, if  I'm not mistaken the ancient civilization was a user of shadow magic I think it would be pretty cool the only thing I would change is that I would join the 2 updates into one.

 

21 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

My idea for shadow hunters are mostly ranged DPS to draw aggro, or add damage safely. They shouldn't deal much damage (the boomerang doesn't). If you think you, or the melee duelists would get hit a lot (for example during a boss fight) you'd have a safer option to add DPS with a ranged minion. 

Exactly for a safe distance damage option that I don't like, I can see you just running away from the boss while the shadow finishes you even if it takes time and with your idea of an almost immortal shadow that adds dps or mine of just giving a bonus of damage I think this safe dps in boss fight turns out to be unnecessary.

 

24 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Even though I like the idea of maxwell having his own refuelable dark sword, I think it would have been great if Wanda wasn't a thing. With Wanda having literally the same perk, I don't think he should go that way. 

Wanda is the character I have the most fun playing and the second I play the most after Maxwell, but I don't like her, I think a lot of her should be Maxwell, even the whole kit, including the disadvantage, it's just necessary to change the theme of "watch " by "shadow" having said that i partially agree with you but i also see no harm, it could even be something for lore as wanda created her whip in the future based on maxwell's scepter, i believe a lot of wanda's knowledge can be passed on by Maxwell in the future with him being her teacher, which makes for a good story.
I prefer the refillable scepter with a real feel, but it would also be fine if the same item had a more ethereal look of 160 durability (considering the 25% durability bonus for shadow items without the 200 durability bonus) and being made with 8 fuel nightmares.

 

37 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I was thinking about something more like the vortex cloak of hamlet, but nerfed to DST. That is, a nightmare armor that also works as a backpack.

In hamlet this armor is extremely powerful because its a boss reward, as a Maxwell craft it could maybe be an 80% armor that has 8 backpack slots and that can be repaired with fuel. It wouldn't be the best armor, but it could be an interesting option, specially for the early game of weaker characters.

I was thinking about her too, actually if I see my newest att I've discarded that idea, currently almost discarding the dark cloak too but I still like it just to let me be distracted in the caves every now and then without getting punished with ik and I don't think that 5% reduction is going to be something broken but still thinking about.

if you have more ideas or considerations about my ideas I would love to hear them, I loved the idea of the almost immortal shadow that adds dps and I will work on it a little, I found it much more interesting and fun than just giving a damage bonus to maxwell.

[King Maxwell]

After more feedbacks I'm making a new update, again I would like opinions about it especially compared to my last update.

• It is no longer necessary to drop the codex umbra to create the shadows, just have it in your inventory.
  Shadow creation animation like DS single player.
  explanation: Having to drop the item is unintuitive and practical and the single player animation is nicer.
   

• If you have shadows and you right click on the codex umbra, the shadows will jump to the codex umbra being stored until called again, the sanity penalty continues with the stored shadows.
  If you have shadows stored in the codex umbra and you right click on it, the shadows will pop out.
  explanation: Greater shadow control, much needed.
   

• Feeding the codex umbra with 40 Nightmare Fuel will reduce the cost of Shadows to 2 Nightmare Fuel.
  I wish I didn't have to carry flint for my shadows at the end game.
   
• codex umbra update: 1 codex umbra, 1 purple gem, 20 nightmare fuel, 2 thulecite.
  -shadow partner: This shadow will be very close to maxwell and will be unreachable (except maxwell if he wants to destroy him), this shadow will copy maxwell's moves and attack whatever he attacks with 25% of the original maxwell's damage.
  Creation: 2 Nightmare Fuel, -35% Sanity.
  Limited to 1 partner shadow at a time.
  Explanation: I really think that maxwell should have some dps bonus later in the game but nothing too big, a shadow partner seems to me much more interesting than my initial idea of damage bonus with shadow weapons and that way you should choose if want a damage increase at that moment, a worker or even a duelist in addition to not being able to use your dps bonus + 3 duelists.
  -The codex got more powerful allowing shadows to create their own tools.
  All shadows will have their tool cost removed costing only 2 nightmare fuel and corresponding sanity.
  Explanation: The cost of tools in the end game is just an annoyance, I think it can be removed for a better quality of life but kept during the beginning for balance purposes.

• Maxwell gains +25% 20% damage with shadow weapons.
  A damage increase with shadow weapons would be nice, showing his knowledge of shadows and a little more damage is nice for the 75 hp.

• Shadow items used by maxwell have +25% durability.
  Explanation: more durability to demonstrate your knowledge of shadows and having night armor and dark sword with a little more durability is very useful.

• Maxwell loses 25% 35% less sanity when using shadow items.
  Explanation: Maxwell shouldn't lose the same amount of sanity as other survivors when using shadow items.
   

• Maxwell gains 25% less healing from food and healing items.
  Explanation: Maxwell's time on the Throne of Shadows affected his body's ability to recover.
   

•  Maxwell can eat nightmare fuel.
  -nightmare fuel: hungry 0, sanity -5, hp 5
  Explanation: Maxwell can absorb the energy of Nightmare Fuel to heal himself a little in exchange for some sanity.

• new shadow:
  -shadow sailor: would row along with you increasing the strength and speed of the boat.
  crafting: 2 nightmare fuel, 1 oar, -20% sanity.
   

• 2 new items exclusive to maxwell.
  -Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68 (34 17 when out of fuel) 80 durability, can be refilled with Nightmare Fuel, Nightmare Fuel recharges 25%.
  Crafting: 1 dark sword, 5 nightmare fuel, 1 walking cane, 1 purple Gem 1 codex umbra v2( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  or
  Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68, 160 durability.
  Crafting: 8 nightmare fuel codex umbra v2( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  Explanation: It would be great for Maxwell to have his own exclusive version of the "dark sword".
  
  -Dark Cloak: 10% 5% damage reduction 8 inventory slots is fireproof, cannot be placed in inventory or chests.
  Crafting: 1 night armor, 2 nightmare fuel, 1 piggyback, 1 codex umbra v2( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A more stylish backpack giving a more majestic look to the ex king maxwell, I would like the 10% 5% hp reduction just to avoid depths worm ik is really annoying when I'm distracted in the caves and I take ik.
  
  -Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
  Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.
  it's a really broken item and it's better not to be added.

[Mr_Vol]

31 minutes ago, King Maxwell said:

Maxwell gains 25% less healing from food and healing items.
Explanation: Maxwell's time on the Throne of Shadows affected his body's ability to recover.

I dont see why a new negative needs to be  added?

6 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I believe this was explored in a mod to some extent, but these are the changes I see better. Basic codex umbra should only have Workers available.
Second tier codex umbra means Maxwell unlocks more perks from it after he gets a shadow manipulator (its an upgraded version of the book, requires the book and some crafting materials). Unlocks improved duelists and other fighters.
Third tier of codex umbra: requires second tier of umbra and an ancient pseudoscience station. Unlocks channeling perks from the codex umbra.

I love the idea of unlocking more and more knowledge for Maxwell, I can see that a lvl2 book could make it so the tool requirement is not needed when making shadows and the a lvl 3 version could give you a boost in the shadow damage and chopping/mining speed.

I still feel that Maxwell should have a benefit using Staffs cause he has been studying them even before he got into the constant.

[King Maxwell]

26 minutes ago, Mr_Vol said:

I dont see why a new negative needs to be  added?

I don't think he needs it either, I just thought it matched and I think it gives a cool roleplay aspect with the idea that he can "eat" nightmare fuel as if his body had some sequel that hinders healing by traditional means but allows healing with nightmare fuel, as a kind of corruption.
I also think it's a very small negative aspect but it's really not something necessary.

 

31 minutes ago, Mr_Vol said:

I still feel that Maxwell should have a benefit using Staffs cause he has been studying them even before he got into the constant.

It would be something cool for the sake of lore and I think it could be added but I've already given so many new things (and depending on me I would give much more. hahahahaha) that I only selected the ones I found most interesting but I agree that for the sake of lore to have something related to staves it would be nice.

[Mr_Vol]

1 hour ago, King Maxwell said:

Maxwell can eat nightmare fuel.
-nightmare fuel: hungry 0, sanity -5, hp 5
Explanation: Maxwell can absorb the energy of Nightmare Fuel to heal himself a little in exchange for some sanity.

This seems like a way to make someone corrupt. I feel eating nightmare fuel is going abit too far.

As a lore thing, would you want to hang out with someone who is eating the fuel of your nightmares? I won't. 

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i think he should summon flat shadow clones like DS wasting just NF that you change at the cost of more NF to chopper, fighter, miners, etc instead of needing to kill the chopper to create a miner and having to bring damn flint with you. Easy taking in count that these changes can be like recipes in his personal tab

also shadow duelists should be changed into something less niche and maybe making them able to fight shadows since they are made of the same material and only bernie and great gestals are able to fight them

and the book having the "rile up" Wendy's flower function to make them stop

and, instead of less sanity drain (which doesnt fit someone who ended being totally nuts cuz using NF in the lore plus already has a sanity reg perk), he should have more durability and damage in shadow made items

that and fixing the sanity with how the enlightenment work and maybe changing how the CC crown works on him would be enough for me

[Mr_Vol]

6 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i think he should summon flat shadow clones like DS wasting just NF that you change at the cost of more NF to chopper, fighter, miners, etc instead of needing to kill the chopper to create a miner and having to bring damn flint with you. Easy taking in count that these changes can be like recipes in his personal tab

Just as long as I don't have to chop the trees to get my workers to chop trees.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Mr_Vol said:

Just as long as I don't have to chop the trees to get my workers to chop trees.

is what i mean, you would make the live version choppers. The only difference is that i ask for is being able to switch the work of our shadows by just expending more NF

i didnt like neither how ds workers perform, was against the point of having puppets needing to work to make them work (and waay worse than just hiring pigs...)

[King Maxwell]

On 4/21/2022 at 6:38 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

and, instead of less sanity drain (which doesnt fit someone who ended being totally nuts cuz using NF in the lore plus already has a sanity reg perk), he should have more durability and damage in shadow made items

I see it differently, he may have gone crazy but he's regained his sanity, plus the experience and knowledge from having used shadow magic for years, decades, maybe centuries (time in the constant passes differently and it's clear that maxwell stayed a long, long, long time trapped in the nightmare throne.)
It seems much more logical to me that someone with such experience and knowledge would lose less sanity than other survivors who are probably using shadow magic for the first time when you create the dark sword/night armor and he went crazy for getting drunk on the power , by his speeches to wanda's items I believe that they are much more restrained with this subject and learned from their mistake.

Conclusion: I see much more logic that maxwell with the experience and knowledge acquired when using shadow magic losing less sanity than a survivor who is having his first contacts with it.