Wolfgang was (almost) perfect before the recent patch

[PetulantPansy]

11 hours ago, Cheggf said:

You need to play reverse Woodie who eats small things like honey instead of large things like bacon & eggs to make proper use of your power, you require (minor) time and resource investment to be able to use your power at all with neglecting it debuffing you into wimpy form, he has uninterruptable transition animations whenever he gains or loses might levels which can get him hit potentially multiple times, he loses sanity considerably faster than other characters, he loses more hunger than other characters (especially while using a gym), he's probably using an inventory slot for a dumbbell which is big when there's only 15 slots, and maybe more I'm not remembering off the top of my head.

Compare his enormous list of downsides to other characters like "Takes slightly longer to fight shadow creatures" or "If it's Winter and you don't have a thermal stone and you're wearing insulated clothing you'll freeze very slightly faster". He might not be a hard character, but outside of like 3 characters none of them are particularly difficult or have notable downsides.

I don't think this is an "enormous list" at all. His main downside at this point is a higher sanity drain and a punishing wimpy form. Stay out of wimpy form (which is really easy to do now and isn't time consuming) is really the key thing players need to do. People also need to remember that there is nothing wrong with normal wolfgang when you're just walking around and doing normal tasks. 

[ALCRD]

It didn't make him interesting it turned him into poor man's Wanda.

Plus the nightmare of getting stunlocked and losing all mightiness because of this "interesting mechanic" 

 

[Toroic]

1 hour ago, PetulantPansy said:

I don't think this is an "enormous list" at all. His main downside at this point is a higher sanity drain and a punishing wimpy form. Stay out of wimpy form (which is really easy to do now and isn't time consuming) is really the key thing players need to do. People also need to remember that there is nothing wrong with normal wolfgang when you're just walking around and doing normal tasks. 

I don't think it's an enormous list either, but a lot of characters have pretty minor downsides at this point, with a significant downside being the exception vs the rule.

Wolf is one of the weakest characters in wimpy form, and quite strong in mighty form.  He'll need to stay fed and active to allow mighty form, which takes some additional time/effort and if he's playing poorly will quickly be stripped of all his perks.

When you're deep in the caves and carrying a lantern/torch the passive mighty drain becomes pretty significant even when well fed.  The only time it's trivial to manage is during a boss fight, rowing, and carrying a dumbbell around.

[Yuuko]

40 minutes ago, Toros said:

When you're deep in the caves and carrying a lantern/torch the passive mighty drain becomes pretty significant even when well fed.  The only time it's trivial to manage is during a boss fight, rowing, and carrying a dumbbell around.

And I don't think this is a problem really - You have options.  You can forgo a walking cane / lantern in favor of a beef / mining hat while traveling to keep a dumbbell equipped.  Or you can just lift when you get there since it doesn't take too much time now - you don't even have to lift to 100 if you're going to immediately be active, just get over the threshold and let your working gains take you the rest of the way.

I'm really enjoying this version of Wolfgang.  Even after the increased drain patch I haven't fell to wimpy form once.  I do fall to regular form sometimes, but it doesn't take long to re-gain mighty when I need to put in work.

[Toroic]

4 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

And I don't think this is a problem really - You have options.  You can forgo a walking cane / lantern in favor of a beef / mining hat while traveling to keep a dumbbell equipped.  Or you can just lift when you get there since it doesn't take too much time now - you don't even have to lift to 100 if you're going to immediately be active, just get over the threshold and let your working gains take you the rest of the way.

I'm really enjoying this version of Wolfgang.  Even after the increased drain patch I haven't fell to wimpy form once.  I do fall to regular form sometimes, but it doesn't take long to re-gain mighty when I need to put in work.

I don't see it as a problem that needs fixing, but it's definitely something you need to actively manage.  That time and effort is part of the cost of accessing his perks.

[Cheggf]

4 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

I don't think this is an "enormous list" at all.

Look at the other characters, bro.

[shiguld]

IMO the intention of forcing a dumbell swap combat strategy was pretty interesting, but falls short on the specific execution

Best way to introduce a concept like this is with a double-edged mechanic. Something that when used right situationally benefits the player, but when used wrong penalizes the player with an avenue to recover. The might loss thing is a purely stick method to penalize players unless they dumbell swap, which would be pretty unpopular.

Alternate suggestion: Lean into his critical hit mechanic.

When working (mining/chopping/fighting) at full might, wolf has a chance to enter enraged mode for like 30 seconds(?) where he bleeds nightmare fuel as a visual que. In this mode, his attacks have a 30% chance to be critical hits that either do aoe damage or an additional 20% damage and he doesnt flinch when hit. In this mode, he also has a 30% chance to one hit boulders/trees. But while in this mode, his might drains significantly, so you'll need to swap in dumbells to avoid shifting forms before the form ends. Also a minor nuisance to people who chop/mine/fight spiders sporadically. Something like this will also play into his marble armor perk since he will instead be incentivized to tank and make use of his unflinching perk.

This is just an example to illustrate how mechanics usually need to be balanced around a perk/nerf for them to be valuable additions. But i understand klei has spent way too much time on wolfgang already so it might be best to leave him as is.

Edit: i just realized that this suggestion would make some fights reeeaally interesting, like if you triggered max might mode on fuelweaver's invulnerable state

[Dextops]

4 hours ago, ALCRD said:

It didn't make him interesting it turned him into poor man's Wanda.

Plus the nightmare of getting stunlocked and losing all mightiness because of this "interesting mechanic" 

 

difference is they didn't have to remove it entirely they just had to tweak it with armour

[dubious little]

I'm basically just gonna repeat what I said on the update post.

This mechanic imo just doesn't work. Negating it with armour doesn't change any of your strategies (which with Wanda it does) the animation remains an issue if you do fall below, if they remove the animation then you can just use a dumbbell to get mighty again while fighting so maintaining the forms matters much less, if they make it so dumbbells don't increase your mightyness then he essentially becomes Wanda but instead of dying he becomes Wilson/Wes. Not to mention it contradicts wearing marble armour and his high health.

My opinion is that it should be repurposed for sanity creatures, this would tie into his increased sanity drain making it have more of a purpose. Even if it doesn't, he already has enough downsides anyways when compared to a lot of other characters.

[Antynomity]

I was actually working forward to play with wolfgang after those changes, looks like klei didn't like the idea themselves after player testing, honestly I want wolfgang to not be compared to wigfrid and that would make that possible, since tanking would be discouraged.

[Grim0514]

The most interesting suggestion I've seen for Wolfgang is making it so the dumbbell is like the Workout station Mini game except youre allowed to move Where skilled players could do it mid combat or while walking to make the act of using the dumbell more than stand still to win

[dubious little]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:14 AM, YourPlayerCat said:

I was actually working forward to play with wolfgang after those changes, looks like klei didn't like the idea themselves after player testing, honestly I want wolfgang to not be compared to wigfrid and that would make that possible, since tanking would be discouraged.

He would just be compared to Wanda then.

[Antynomity]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:44 AM, dubious little said:

He would just be compared to Wanda then.

Wanda has to kite to not waste resources on reverting her age, wolfgang would only have to kite if the player wants to have infinite double damage, tired of this argument honestly.

[loopuleasa]

I think mightiness loss on hit was not good for new players, and hence why it was removed.