EDITED: A Warly Change Idea (please read Klei)

[Papa Scorch]

1 hour ago, Pig Princess said:

Oh, I somehow read "refine jellybeans into more spices", I'm sorry for such unattentiveness. But in that case I wonder on what food and why one would want to apply such spice. Healing food? But if one tanks heavily wouldn't it be safer to just eat normal healing food to restore 40-60 health in one second rather than wait? Long battles with relatively low received damage rate are already ok with jellybeans alone, and even if one wanted to use it to restore health over time with regular food currently one can use both jellybeans and regular food (although it would be 2 slots instead of 1; on the other hand one could want to switch healing food after consuming 3rd copy, so current system is still more versatile); healing rate doesn't stack after consuming second jellybean, so using it in battles with high received damage rate would waste second and subsequent jellybeans or potential spice alternative. Applying effect on sanity food? But again one could use both dishes and at some point switch to other sanity food.

Well yes, but to Warly, jellybeans are everything. He cannot hold too many different dishes in his inventory during long boss fights to save space for other items, and after spamming the same few foods, they will have so little effect on Warly. This is why jellybeans are such a necessity. They will always heal him nearly the same amount of health every time. He practically depends on them during any raid boss, so that he can continue healing a bunch of health.

[Pig Princess]

4 hours ago, Papa Scorch said:

but to Warly, jellybeans are everything

 

4 hours ago, Papa Scorch said:

jellybeans are such a necessity

 

4 hours ago, Papa Scorch said:

He practically depends on them during any raid boss

I played Warly a lot including fighting bosses (solo) and never felt the need for jellybeans, therefore I disagree that it's such necessity and Warly depends on them so much. Do you use volt goat jelly and fight bosses while whey were wet? What bosses give you trouble and which armor do you use (% of damage reduction is really important here)? What food aside from jellybeans do you use for healing/sanity (if it's celestial champion fight it may be a good chance to use grim galette)? Do you use other options for healing (although these are not necessary from my experience, but may help since bat bat, healing salves, etc. are unaffected by food penalty)?

Also you wouldn't get more healing if your suggestion ever passed, you would only use 1 less inventory slot best case scenario in every fight if I understand correctly.

Personally, I think Bee Queen fight is usually the most resource intensive in terms of healing, so I'll take it as an example. Character with normal damage modifier with ham bat and 80% protection takes around 40 pierogies in my experience, which is 1600 healing points, and that is without cheese, walls, panflute, only with extra speed to outrun grumble bees (cane + road + magiluminescence, but cane + magi or cane + road is also ok). To clarify: in the first phase I kill all grumble bees but 1 and tank Bee Queen, on the second phase I lure Bee Queen on the verge of her aggro range (around 12 pitchfork tiles orthgonally (not diagonally)) and tank her until grumble bees catch up, in the third and forth phase I run and lure grumble bees far away from Bee Queen during her screesh and then quickly return and tank her until grumble bees catch up. As you can see, that is solo full tank with 1x damage and 1x damage reduction modifier.

First, you can cut your healing needs by choosing better armor. Thulecite armor will reduce needed healing at least in half (it has 90% damage reduction) without basically any downside during fight itself, + occasional force field is also handy, so that would be 800 healing. Marble armor and night armor with 95% protection both will reduce needed healing to 400 hp points (suddenly it's 10 pierogies), but keep in mind that night armor will drain 40 + 10*n sanity where n is amount of minutes fight lasts (with 1x modifier fight is around 2 days which translates into around 200 sanity lost if you wear it constantly) and that night armor has relatively low durability compared to marble suit, bee keeper hat and thulecite suit/crown (although in DST armor durability can be extended by wearing 2 armor pieces simultaneously, in that case the highest damage reduction would be applied); marble suit has speed reduction, but one can switch to other items when not tanking in this fight without slow down effect.

The more is your damage per second during fight when you tank, the less damage you take over the course of fight, and Warly specifically can buff himself up to 3x damage, so that leaves us with 533, 267 and 133 hp points for 80%, 90% and 95% damage reduction correspondingly, or if you don't want to count on rain with 1.8 damage modifier it's 889 hp, 444 hp and 222 hp for the same cases. I also recommend to use dark swords, moreover, you can drop extra weapons and armor on the ground until you need them.

There is also garlic spice with 0.66 damage received modifier, so you can multiply all those hp values to 0.66 to calculate further reduction of needed hp to restore.

Let's take 400 hp of healing (I recommend to use marble armor or at least thulecite suit with at least 1.8 damage modifier). What is 400 hp restored? Non-food options first: a single bat bat gives 510 hp and drains 255 sanity, and dps doesn't drop too much if one uses it only as a backup weapon; 400 hp is also 20 healing salves and a bit less than 14 honey poultices. Let's move to food. 1st, 2nd and 3rd dish give Warly 100, 90 and 80% of stats respecively, 4th gives 65% so I recommend to stop on consuming no more than 3 types of the same food. That means 3 60 hp food will restore 162 hp points (although if you are desperate, you could consume 4th and 5th dish for extra 39 (65%) and 30 (50%) hp, so it's 201 hp and 231 hp per inventory slot). There are surf'n'turf and wobster bisque, both last 10 days which should be enough time for the fight, and moqueca if you have ingredients (also gives 60 hp). Among 40 hp dishes there are much more options: pierogie, fish sticks, dragonpie, barnacle nigiri, and a bunch of other dishes ingredients for which are available only in summer, you need to be lucky enough to harvest lureplants in perfect time or to go ocean fishing, some of them last only 6 days (3 days above 50%) best case scenario. Among 40 hp dishes usually the most practical to use (easy to produce) are pierogie and fish sticks, although if you are farming you might as well cook dragonpie or if you are exploring ocean you might as well cook barnacle nigiri/seafood gumbo. 3 40hp dishes give total 108 healing, that's also decent. So 3 wobster bisque and 3 surf'n'turf would give you 324 hp, add pierogie and it's 432 hp which is enough provided you have proper armor and avoid being stunlocked by grumble bees. If you are desperate, there is also salt spice that multiplies healing value of dish by 1.25, but I wouldn't bother with that, personally, since with marble suit alone even without any buffs 3 slots are enough for all healing you will need (around 400 hp), and with 3x damage and garlic spice it's only 88 hp you need to restore.

At this pont if you time your fight well you don't need any healing as long as you start fight on full health, have enough speed to outrun Bee Queen minions, bring 1.5 marble suits, 1 bee keeper hat, ham bat, 1-2 volt goat jellies with pepper spice and 1-2 of something with garlic spice (fish cordon bleu for rain protection, for example). I just tested it: I in addition to mentioned resources (2 volt goat jelly and 2 fish cordon bleu were used, although I ate 2nd of which when Bee Queen was around 1/3 health) I used 60% of magiluminescence, no healing food and ended fight with 76 health even though I was hit twice while I was wearing only 80% damage reduction armor. I'd go even further: for Fuelweaver it's the same story (no healing needed), confirmed on practice by me on personal server (no heavy lagging) and average figting skill.

But if you include pan flute in the fight, you don't even need to tank with 3x damage modifier, or tank only 1st phase to save a bit of pan flutes durability; you can use bat bat for all healing you need and just raise sanity with ice cream, jelly salad, vegetable stinger or surf'n'turf (+ latter gives health); if you are patient you can even tank Bee Queen on beefalo and use blue caps/tomatoes for 1st and 2nd phase healing and trail mixes for 3rd and 4th. Without any damage modifiers, ranged attacks, fire damage, etc. for default beefalo (34 damage per hit) it took me 40 blue caps, 40 trail mixes and 4 days, but you obviously don't need to torture yourself and could just use ornery instead with some pepper and garlic spiced food (fed to beefalo) and volt goat jelly fed to rider, time needed for a fight will be reduced with damage increase (150 damage (with glossammer saddle for speed) is much better than 34 damage). Beefalo strategy is very risky though.

Edit: I just tested ornery beefalo with glossammer saddle, garlic and pepper spice + volt goat jelly on wet Bee Queen. It took 2 garlic and 2 pepper spiced trail mixes, 1 more garlic and 1 more pepper spiced food (gave to beefalo before the fight so health value doesn't matter), 2 volt goat jellies and my beefalo was 2 hits away from death but I took some unnecessary hits here and there. With 3-5 extra trail mixes one should be safe, I think.

[Kemthazul]

I agree with Pig Princess, Warly's biggest issue right now is inventory clutter which results to a really awful early game.

Warly, to be frank, is strong enough as he is. For me, would be one of the "sleeper picks" where the majority doesn't pick him because he is too annoying to play/such a drastic gameplay change. For comparison to other games, think Aurelion Sol in League of Legends.

A slight love tap I would give to the chef would be modifying his chef pouch, there are a lot of options to go:

• Revert to SW version.or
• Current spoilage rate OR removed spoilage + massively increased backpack slot (+4 slots) + restricted to food/spoilable items and seasonings only or
• Just +2 slots, current spoilage + craft recipe, only wearable by Warly

[Papa Scorch]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I just want to be able to use the portable crockpot as a melee weapon that doesn’t break similar to Woodie players who are skilled enough can use Lucy (although don’t do that because using her is intentionally awful)

I also think the designated chef in the character roster should come with a portable Ice Box/salt box: That can store and preserve foods/ingredients for a lot longer.

Items that are of course exclusive to only being useable by Warly.. but would give him some fun “Self-Stuff” that helps counter his picky eating downsides.

I also feel there’s a valid argument to be had about changes to Warly/Winona/Wurt etc- Because Warly was one of the first reworks BEFORE Klei started completely removing/negating serious unfun downsides.

(Downsides are still present.. just more easily countered) and when it comes to Warly: He doesn’t have anything in his current Kit that counters his downsides.

Even WALTER has easier gimmicky counters to his downsides such as telling camp stories, wearing a special hat while standing around a forest of trees, and using his own portable camp tents.

So there’s a validity to giving Warly a touch up in a future QoL patch or something.

I absolutely love the idea of a portable ice box. Could you allow me

 

2 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

 

 

I played Warly a lot including fighting bosses (solo) and never felt the need for jellybeans, therefore I disagree that it's such necessity and Warly depends on them so much. Do you use volt goat jelly and fight bosses while whey were wet? What bosses give you trouble and which armor do you use (% of damage reduction is really important here)? What food aside from jellybeans do you use for healing/sanity (if it's celestial champion fight it may be a good chance to use grim galette)? Do you use other options for healing (although these are not necessary from my experience, but may help since bat bat, healing salves, etc. are unaffected by food penalty)?

Also you wouldn't get more healing if your suggestion ever passed, you would only use 1 less inventory slot best case scenario in every fight if I understand correctly.

Personally, I think Bee Queen fight is usually the most resource intensive in terms of healing, so I'll take it as an example. Character with normal damage modifier with ham bat and 80% protection takes around 40 pierogies in my experience, which is 1600 healing points, and that is without cheese, walls, panflute, only with extra speed to outrun grumble bees (cane + road + magiluminescence, but cane + magi or cane + road is also ok). To clarify: in the first phase I kill all grumble bees but 1 and tank Bee Queen, on the second phase I lure Bee Queen on the verge of her aggro range (around 12 pitchfork tiles orthgonally (not diagonally)) and tank her until grumble bees catch up, in the third and forth phase I run and lure grumble bees far away from Bee Queen during her screesh and then quickly return and tank her until grumble bees catch up. As you can see, that is solo full tank with 1x damage and 1x damage reduction modifier.

First, you can cut your healing needs by choosing better armor. Thulecite armor will reduce needed healing at least in half (it has 90% damage reduction) without basically any downside during fight itself, + occasional force field is also handy, so that would be 800 healing. Marble armor and night armor with 95% protection both will reduce needed healing to 400 hp points (suddenly it's 10 pierogies), but keep in mind that night armor will drain 40 + 10*n sanity where n is amount of minutes fight lasts (with 1x modifier fight is around 2 days which translates into around 200 sanity lost if you wear it constantly) and that night armor has relatively low durability compared to marble suit, bee keeper hat and thulecite suit/crown (although in DST armor durability can be extended by wearing 2 armor pieces simultaneously, in that case the highest damage reduction would be applied); marble suit has speed reduction, but one can switch to other items when not tanking in this fight without slow down effect.

The more is your damage per second during fight when you tank, the less damage you take over the course of fight, and Warly specifically can buff himself up to 3x damage, so that leaves us with 533, 267 and 133 hp points for 80%, 90% and 95% damage reduction correspondingly, or if you don't want to count on rain with 1.8 damage modifier it's 889 hp, 444 hp and 222 hp for the same cases. I also recommend to use dark swords, moreover, you can drop extra weapons and armor on the ground until you need them.

There is also garlic spice with 0.66 damage received modifier, so you can multiply all those hp values to 0.66 to calculate further reduction of needed hp to restore.

Let's take 400 hp of healing (I recommend to use marble armor or at least thulecite suit with at least 1.8 damage modifier). What is 400 hp restored? Non-food options first: a single bat bat gives 510 hp and drains 255 sanity, and dps doesn't drop too much if one uses it only as a backup weapon; 400 hp is also 20 healing salves and a bit less than 14 honey poultices. Let's move to food. 1st, 2nd and 3rd dish give Warly 100, 90 and 80% of stats respecively, 4th gives 65% so I recommend to stop on consuming no more than 3 types of the same food. That means 3 60 hp food will restore 162 hp points (although if you are desperate, you could consume 4th and 5th dish for extra 39 (65%) and 30 (50%) hp, so it's 201 hp and 231 hp per inventory slot). There are surf'n'turf and wobster bisque, both last 10 days which should be enough time for the fight, and moqueca if you have ingredients (also gives 60 hp). Among 40 hp dishes there are much more options: pierogie, fish sticks, dragonpie, barnacle nigiri, and a bunch of other dishes ingredients for which are available only in summer, you need to be lucky enough to harvest lureplants in perfect time or to go ocean fishing, some of them last only 6 days (3 days above 50%) best case scenario. Among 40 hp dishes usually the most practical to use (easy to produce) are pierogie and fish sticks, although if you are farming you might as well cook dragonpie or if you are exploring ocean you might as well cook barnacle nigiri/seafood gumbo. 3 40hp dishes give total 108 healing, that's also decent. So 3 wobster bisque and 3 surf'n'turf would give you 324 hp, add pierogie and it's 432 hp which is enough provided you have proper armor and avoid being stunlocked by grumble bees. If you are desperate, there is also salt spice that multiplies healing value of dish by 1.25, but I wouldn't bother with that, personally, since with marble suit alone even without any buffs 3 slots are enough for all healing you will need (around 400 hp), and with 3x damage and garlic spice it's only 88 hp you need to restore.

At this pont if you time your fight well you don't need any healing as long as you start fight on full health, have enough speed to outrun Bee Queen minions, bring 1.5 marble suits, 1 bee keeper hat, ham bat, 1-2 volt goat jellies with pepper spice and 1-2 of something with garlic spice (fish cordon bleu for rain protection, for example). I just tested it: I in addition to mentioned resources (2 volt goat jelly and 2 fish cordon bleu were used, although I ate 2nd of which when Bee Queen was around 1/3 health) I used 60% of magiluminescence, no healing food and ended fight with 76 health even though I was hit twice while I was wearing only 80% damage reduction armor. I'd go even further: for Fuelweaver it's the same story (no healing needed), confirmed on practice by me on personal server (no heavy lagging) and average figting skill.

But if you include pan flute in the fight, you don't even need to tank with 3x damage modifier, or tank only 1st phase to save a bit of pan flutes durability; you can use bat bat for all healing you need and just raise sanity with ice cream, jelly salad, vegetable stinger or surf'n'turf (+ latter gives health); if you are patient you can even tank Bee Queen on beefalo and use blue caps/tomatoes for 1st and 2nd phase healing and trail mixes for 3rd and 4th. Without any damage modifiers, ranged attacks, fire damage, etc. for default beefalo (34 damage per hit) it took me 40 blue caps, 40 trail mixes and 4 days, but you obviously don't need to torture yourself and could just use ornery instead with some pepper and garlic spiced food (fed to beefalo) and volt goat jelly fed to rider, time needed for a fight will be reduced with damage increase (150 damage (with glossammer saddle for speed) is much better than 34 damage). Beefalo strategy is very risky though.

Edit: I just tested ornery beefalo with glossammer saddle, garlic and pepper spice + volt goat jelly on wet Bee Queen. It took 2 garlic and 2 pepper spiced trail mixes, 1 more garlic and 1 more pepper spiced food (gave to beefalo before the fight so health value doesn't matter), 2 volt goat jellies and my beefalo was 2 hits away from death but I took some unnecessary hits here and there. With 3-5 extra trail mixes one should be safe, I think.

You know, thank you. You got me to see the imperfections in my thinking. Could you tell me if you like my edit more or less? I changed it up a bit and hope you like it. Thank you!!

[Pig Princess]

8 hours ago, Papa Scorch said:

You know, thank you. You got me to see the imperfections in my thinking. Could you tell me if you like my edit more or less? I changed it up a bit and hope you like it. Thank you!!

I feel like you changed it a lot;

On 1/4/2022 at 8:55 AM, Papa Scorch said:

Alright, Warly is a very strong Don’t Starve Together character when played right, and I’m not saying he’s bad or even needs a change at all, but my ideas for this change would make him a much more fun and enjoyable character, so please consider.

Idea #1. A new spice should be created that uses three volt goat horns for two of the spice. It would be identical to a normal volt goat jelly, but could be added to crock pot dishes. It is essentially stronger than volt goat jelly, because it can be put on any crock pot dish. It is more expensive though which balances it out.

Idea #2. With three royal jellies, Warly would be able to make two royal spices that would be like jellybeans, but able to be put on crock pot dishes. It would give double the health of the crock pot dish to you over the course of one minute along with the normal health of the dish.

Idea #3 Add glowing jelly that would be a spice that could be added to crock pot dishes, and would give the same effect as normal glow berry mousse. It would be created with three glow berries, and would give two of the spice.

Idea #4 For three blue caps, Warly could create two blue cap spices that would give crock pot dishes 25% more sanity gain.

Idea #5. (Passives) Warly should have a passive 8% chance to get butter from butterflies. This means that one out of 12.5 butterflies would drop butter which he could use in his crock pot dishes.

All of Warly’s exclusive dishes should only be remembered for one day instead of Two.

Warly can make a mussel trap that could be placed in a pond for a 1% chance every second to catch a mussel. Mussels could be used to make the shipwrecked exclusive. Every mussel caught would decrease the trap’s durability by 10%. 
 

Warly could place his portable crock pot on campfires for much faster cooking time depending on how full the fire is.

One of the benifits of having different dishes for different effect (Warly's buffs or just health and sanity restoration) is the fact that in vast majority of cases one needs to apply them at different times. If effect of volt goat jelly was achievable with spice and one applied it on healing food (seems like that is what you want to do) then one would either need to eat that food every 5 minutes (or whatever effect duration time would be, even if it was 2-3 minutes idea is the same) and not more frequent in order to minimise resources for achieving maximum duration of electric buff, or one would keep separate dish (differently spiced food don't stack) and therefore have to dedicate the same amount of slots for food/food buffs. If you are ok with wasting tons of horns, then you can save 1 inventory slot best case scenario. But I don't like wasting horns (and resources in general), so for my playstyle it would achieve nothing but increased price of spice and spoilage component of effect removed, and I already stated my opinion on it.

Idea #2 it whatever to me, but could help people who need healing much more and reward Warly player for defeating Bee Queen more than others. I, personally, like the fact that Warly has to kite more and/or needs to use better armor than others, as well as his buffs and better weapons, I consider difficulty to heal part of his character. I don't like change for the sake of change (from my perspective it's exactly it), but this is a territory of personal preference, objectivity ends here. So if I was the one who makes decisions, I wouldn't implement idea, but if it was implemented, I wouldn't come and scream "please nerf" (and the better one kites, the less useful this feature would be, same for usage of better armor, and I could ignore feature completely on top of that). It's the same reason why I think Warly's inability to eat non-crock pot dishes was a good change even though it was nerf: it shaped his playstyle better, I like it more than single-player version (there Warly could eat even raw/cooked over fire/dried food, but extra penalty was applied and it stacked with repeated dish penalty).

Overall I see you removed "remove this feature and and mine" parts and left only "add mine" parts, but I, personally, think that a lot of features with the same effect or very similar just clutter character's pool of perks. One can't just add more stuff endlessly to please everyone, refuse to remove anything and create something not bloated, somewhat shaped and with clearly visible idea. It's the same for game character, story writing, other areas of arts; as for science and ingeneering superfluity is avoided much more here and is a necessity.

Idea #4 is sanity counterpart for salt spice, I see. But I would rather Klei add recipe for sanity jellybeans variant for everyone.

Idea #5 would still produce unreasonably small amount of butter if one wants to count on it, but I guess for occasional use it could be ok; however, butter farm where Warly isn't smacking butterlies himself would use the same 2% chance and therefore remain unproductive, and killing butterlies manually is a waste of time outside of early game/glossammer saddle grinding. Even if drop chance was affected by proximity to Warly, such farm would still produce unreasonable amount of butterfly wings, and outside of glossammer saddle (1 craft per world) one doesn't need much of them. They last only 6 days and can't be put in salt box, which makes them pretty bad filler, but I admit that they are probably one of the easiest to scale with number of players food source since other players just need to be present for butterfly spawn rate to increase. I want to use butter more while I play Warly, I wish there was more reliable source of it (and I could gift some fresh fruit crepes to Wesses just for lore reasons).

I disagree with repeated dish memory regarding Warly's unique dishes since it would promote spamming moqueca lategame (1 dish), which goes against "character fantasy" (term Klei themselves used). Or fresh fruit crepes if butter was more common. Seems like indirect request to make Warly easier to play at some point. I, personally, like to play around his downside, therfore I don't like this suggestion.

Mussel suggestion I'm neutral towards, more food sources I always welcome, as well as new things to consider to choose base location/survival strategy. But passive food collection already exists in many forms in DST, starting from honey and ending with automatic (via mob interaction between themselves) meat farms, and now you can set up barnacle farm even (it has fish and meat value in crock pot). What could mussels bring that doesn't exist in dst already?

Campfire is very niche suggestion though, and even if firepits also counted, one couldn't boost whole kitchen with that and make it compact at the same time because campfire/firepit requires more space to place than portable crock pots. So to me suggestion is "whatever", although I would like portable crock pot to cook faster, preferably with something to do (plan) from players's side.

You also don't have to convince or please me, I just decided to respond with fight tips because I thought it could be helpful to you as Warly player and for everyone else who is reading it could be a food for thought.

[Echsrick]

forget healing food

eat healing salve and honey pultrice instead

[Mysterious box]

Personally I feel like Warly is in a good spot but if Kiel did want to make healing abit more accessible for less skilled players they could make him faster at using medicine.

[BonesJrOfficial]

On 1/4/2022 at 9:25 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

would be cool if the chef pouch was a head storage item with like 4  slots with slow spoilage effect

I'd like to see Chef pouch increased to 10 slots, but the food spoilage decreased from 33% to 25%. It only holds food - the insulation pack is a bit later game and is leagues better then chef pouch now.. I think 10 slots gives it some sort of relevance, even if the spoilage isn't as good, or the universal slots.

However a headslot to expand inventory is enticing.