How does wolf feel compared to before

[Cloakingsumo198]

From someone who can't play anymore but used to only be Wolfgang and Maxwell.  How does the DST veterans feel about the new wolf compared to the old.

I remember Wolfgang as a one man army without a doubt his speed and damage would help cut down the time for exploring/gathering/combat at the cost of negligible sanity loss and constant maintenance of his hunger which also wasn't too hard to keep up aside from remembering to top up.

Constant gathering and hunting to make a surplus of food that can either fill your giant stomach or small fillers to quickly top up. But food is rather easy to farm in DST if you know how to and part of that is also making the most of what you have aka using crock pot ingredients to their full potential. Ex. 4 big meat makes a meaty stew but so does 2 morsels, 1 monster meat and 1 big meat to make the most value.

So Wolfgang would in theory use up more resources but in practice a good Wolfgang would use his new found mightiness to increase production output whilst lowering time required time. So a good Wolfgang will fill your fridge and resource boxes with their monster goodies surplus without needing to take any to fuel himself. Thus being faster than everyone else using the same borish methods. And not their own character specific way aka Abigail, Maxwell's shadows, Webber's spiders, Winona's contraptions, were beaver forms etc. Wolfgang always excelled at doing things by his own will.

Wolfgang was always about making a the most of what the player could do alone, he would cost the team more if he stagnated and sat around instead of constantly moving and being active of course Wolfgang would seem boring and a hindrance if all you see is him boss rushing and sitting at base eating. But a good Wolfgang will protect his teammates and share his spoils you may just not notice their contribution or care.

His speed boost was useful in and out of combat just moving faster in general is extremely useful aside from dodging. Cutting travel time is huge if you're on the side of the map or deep in caves trying to escape with full loot. It also worked with his hunger drain wolf used more to spend less time running and acting. It fit with his higher maintenance I know the chance of it returning is low but it helped with Wolfgang feeling stronger and getting things done when you maintained his mightiness. I believe it would be fine if his speed boost didn't return but his general actions while mighty we're faster but not exactly more efficient so mining and chopping is faster but also uses durability faster so his mighty has some utility use as well and it wouldn't overshadow the actual gatherers as they have their own methods that are far more effective than whatever Wolfgang could do .

I feel if Klei focuses more on the way Wolfgang players play this would be far more smoothly. The speed removal is fine but it really weakens Wolfgang when going mighty is only regulated to the dumbbells and gym allow all physical labor fighting/chopping/mining to help increase mighty levels, go to any physical worker and you'll see not all strength is built in the gym. While the food bar can dictate how fast it drops. Or even have his mighty also rise abit while he loses sanity or is insane since strength and courage is built by overcoming fear not the absence of it.

My other suggestion is to not make his wimpy form have any niches just make it the form you want to avoid at all costs make it weaker than Wes i dont really care just make it worthy of the name WIMP if you wanna be the strong man better keep up your grind or you'll feel the consequences when reach you atrophy.

I hear alot of arguments that old Wolfgang used to be a resource hog but it seems Wolfgang would be even more so now building dumbbells and gym equipment and still needing to stay in high hunger to stay in mighty longer. It's also just more tedious for practically the same thing whilst also being slower pace overall Wolfgang used to be fast pace and always moving to overcome his stigma as the reason you starved.

 

[Gashzer]

Aw i used to be a maxwell main back before the reworks came out, used to rush an old school ornery beefalo to fight dfly and klaus with in my first winter. Always preferred quality of life perks over raw damage abilities. Thats before wurt came along doing everything maxwell can do and more..

Anyway right now old wolfgang has lost his - eat everything in sight for raw power straight out of the portal. For new wolfgangs improved day to day, non boss fighting, non rushing quality of life. Feels like i don't even need a crock pot anymore which is mad to say about wolfgang as you don't need to eat nearly as much now.

Yes mightyness requires gym or dumbell now but you stay mighty for longer with a more consistent damage output, perfect for farming spiders in one hit with spike or hambat. The gold dumbell is cheap and is used to stay in normal form without much effort an to get a small mighty boost for a minute of fighting when you need it, the gembell is for when you want to stay mighty 24/7 (carry piggyback with no penality + weather resistance). Its also not that hard to get, a wee bit of grinding required yes but it lasts for so long that it feels worth it.

I think the common casual player will love the new wolfgang, less hardcore veterans like myself also will like not having to cook a million meatballs all the time, especially in the late game where you will have plenty of excess purple gems for gembells. Hardcore speedrunners rip tho lol

[Mangrove]

Since Wolfgang was so versatile, I think it will really depend on how you played him:

• If you liked rushing or favored kiting, you will really feel the loss of speed.
• If you favored tanking, the change isn't as drastic.
• If you liked the tension from managing food in fights, the new might meter will feel pretty different as that's not really a thing anymore.
• If you didn't like micromanaging food in fights, the new might meter is a good quality of life update for you. Also then the dumbbells won't feel very different from just stuffing your face before a fight. The longest boss fights might need a small workout sesh in the middle though.
• You're required to prepare better for surprise attacks, don't forget your panflute in case you need to hit the gym.
• If you're always on the go, then going to the gym or having to gather materials for the dumbbells will feel like it's disrupting your playing.
• If you're frequently near your gym, or plant them in strategic locations, it's not as big of a deal. But your world will feel more circus-y
• If you let yourself go insane early game anyway, the new sanity penalty isn't much of a difference.
• If you avoid going insane, you'd prioritize restoring sanity earlier than usual.
• And perma-wimpy Wolfgangs... are you out there? Speed buff for you!
   

For reference: I'm mainly a solo player and I love rushing, kiting and food management. I leave my base for long periods of time and I have a strong distaste for mini-games. Basically, this rework is at odds with many of the things I love about Wolfgang.

How the changes affect me: Slow Wolfgang feels wrong. He's more of a hassle to play now. Kiting isn't as fun. Running to a gym really isn't fun. I don't thoroughly enjoy dangerous situations like I used to and I miss the tension from food management during danger. The new might meter makes certain dangerous situations less likely to happen, as you don't risk changing forms as often as well as no longer being a variable damage multiplier. So the new meter makes him feel a bit duller. I'm also slightly annoyed at having two meters to keep track of instead of one when the old system was so clean. The extra focus on gathering rocks for dumbbells is a departure from how I usually play. I also don't feel like I need to stay mighty 100% of the time cause it feels like a waste of resources. I don't have opinions about his health, sanity, marble suits or rowing.

If you're closer to the opposite end of the spectrum, he might just feel sluggish since you're used to him moving faster, but will kill bosses quickly like before. So kind of same-ish but in a new way and safer + slower, I guess? Since I'm not in this camp others can make a better comparison

[Cloakingsumo198]

Thank you both so far I've really liked these replies alot of nuance and thinking of all parties especially since I can't test the game right now

 

[Mike23Ua]

I can’t play the new Wolfgang but I can watch videos of people playing him, one thing that I feel should be changed is that Dumbell lifting should happen passively as he walks around the map, standing still isn’t fun.. no matter how you put it. Removal of Speed bonus will probably make this standing still to get mighty feel even worse: Which won’t be as noticeable if he passively pumps the bell automatically on his own as long as it’s equipped in his Hand slot.

There really wasn’t much to old Wolfgang, Eat food, be Mighty Strong & Mighty Fast.. don’t eat food become Wimpy till you eat food again.

With this New Rework: You have to work your way up to better versions of the Dumbell through Science, Alchemy Prestihatitator crafting stations, the Dumbell itself isn’t your best form to get Mighty, but it is your form to maintain might after gaining it.

They can be thrown as projectiles to kill Birds, Rabbits, Butterflies, Aggro Koalephant at the cost of Durability (I believe the intent is to use the stone ones for throwing and the gold/gem ones for getting Mighty)

You can increase the time it takes to get mighty by putting heavier stuff on his scales (like eye of terrors boss statue) this lets him reach max might in relatively short time.

Its not the same as old Wolfgang but outside of SPEED it’s not a nerf either.. it feels like you have to earn your mighty form, I just feel like there’s not enough to DO while in Mighty form beyond punch enemies and finish fights faster.. it’s disappointing to say the least.

Not having any team utility beyond being the one man wrecking crew is also equally disappointing considering that cute ideas like letting other players climb up on his scales to increase weight on them have been suggested.

You can checkout this thread here: where Wolfgang’s new reworked perks are ran down-

 

Overall I think it’s really cool stuff, I’m not a Wolfgang main but I do play him from time to time if that’s what my “random pick” on the character select screen pulls for me.

Someone else can probably give you a more validated opinion but personally I think I like it.

[reallychina]

Feels slow and stuttered.

 

I think the weights and progression system are good but need rework.

 

Needs full speed on normal form and even 1.5x in wimpy. No speed in mighty is fine otherwise boss fights are too easy.

 

Or full speed when insane in any form.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 hours ago, Mangrove said:

If you liked the tension from managing food in fights, the new might meter will feel pretty different as that's not really a thing anymore.

if the fight is long, now you have the tension of bumping your muscles without being hit which is more difficult since you have little room to equip the gembell and right click on it

5 hours ago, Mangrove said:

You're required to prepare better for surprise attacks, don't forget your panflute in case you need to hit the gym

is easy to maintain mighty over 74 points

5 hours ago, Mangrove said:

If you're always on the go, then going to the gym or having to gather materials for the dumbbells will feel like it's disrupting your playing.

rocks and gold in early? the same gold and rocks that you need to build science stuff, to use tools in the ruins or to build your base if you decided to take a more chill route. By the time you have tier1 magic unlocked you will only need to bring 1 gembell that will last tons of days and only costs 1 gem and 6 rocks. 

way less than having to gather food to keep a x3 hunger rate

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if the fight is long, now you have the tension of bumping your muscles without being hit which is more difficult since you have little room to equip the gembell and right click on it

is easy to maintain mighty over 74 points

It's still harder to maintain his mighty than before and way more of a hassle, if his mighty gained slightly or drained slower through taking action and staying full it would be alright as it would be comparable to before. Just without food gourging every 5 seconds

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 hours ago, Mangrove said:

If you let yourself go insane early game anyway, the new sanity penalty isn't much of a difference.

makes farm NF easy in early and is noticeable day to day since the Tam sanity boost is nullified at dusk so you only recover sanity at day. In boss figuts you will be dropping sanity from dusk until day time and the CC crown gets nerfed because of it

5 hours ago, Mangrove said:

Kiting isn't as fun

*as easy

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

It's still harder to maintain his mighty than before and way more of a hassle, if his mighty gained slightly or drained slower through taking action and staying full it would be alright as it would be comparable to before. Just without food gourging every 5 seconds

dude, it takes almost a day to lose mighty

idk if people comment without testing things or i play another game version...

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

makes farm NF easy in early and is noticeable day to day since the Tam sanity boost is nullified at dusk so you only recover sanity at day. In boss figuts you will be dropping sanity from dusk until day time and the CC crown gets nerfed because of it

*as easy

dude, it takes almost a day to lose mighty

idk if people comment without testing things or i play another game version...

Why can't you just add on tweaks to how wolf gains and drain might meter so he doesn't have to overly rely on his gym equipment and just use it to buff up quickly or when he has nothing to do but stand around people are adamantly against this wolf cause compared to before he seems way more sluggish in his loop

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

so he doesn't have to overly rely on his gym equipment and just use it to buff up quickly

exactly what already happen? i recommend you to play the rework for many minutes to see how wolf works now

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

exactly what already happen? i recommend you to play the rework for many minutes to see how wolf works now

And I've recommend you tweaks to help his gameplay loop feel smoother instead of lift bell, eat good, he should have more variety to building and maintain that might level and also having new avenues to use that might on

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

And I've recommend you tweaks to help his gameplay loop feel smoother instead of lift bell, eat good, he should have more variety to building and maintain that might level and also having new avenues to use that might on

and im with you on that. im actually tired of saying that wolfgang needs more stuff than just x2 damage and few minor perks

i like characters with many little perks and wolfgang is perfect for that

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

and im with you on that. im actually tired of saying that wolfgang needs more stuff than just x2 damage and few minor perks

i like characters with many little perks and wolfgang is perfect for that

I agree Wolfgang before was op and i enjoyed him while it lasted but this the new age and it doesn't look so swell Wolfgang can be great if he has alot of small details that add up to his strong man persona but as of now he is pretty much the same dude now with a throwable weight and people are somehow tricking themselves thinking this is should be it. I don't know if you read my post at the top but I remember his core loop revolved around the main 3 fight, chop/mine, and gather he doesn't need to be the best of the best but his might should still affect all of that his speed can be pushed onto his gathering capability but only whilst mighty so there is still incentive to be mighty outside of combat even without piggy back

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I agree Wolfgang before was op and i enjoyed him while it lasted but this the new age and it doesn't look so swell Wolfgang can be great if he has alot of small details that add up to his strong man persona but as of now he is pretty much the same dude now with a throwable weight and people are somehow tricking themselves thinking this is should be it.

or you are tricking yourself to think that the rework is bad because they removed a nonsense stat

who knows who is more biased

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

or you are tricking yourself to think that the rework is bad because they removed a nonsense stat

who knows who is more biased

Lol okay what did they fundamentally change about Wolfgang instead of just taking away his stats and speed. And adding a throwable

His wimpy form takes slightly more damage and he gets 60 insulation while fat like woodie. Also he can move in heavy gear better but that was always there

[Capybara007]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

or you are tricking yourself to think that the rework is bad because they removed a nonsense stat

who knows who is more biased

Or you are tricking yourself into thinking you are having fun pressing the button in the right time/standing doing absolutely nothing for more statue speed

[Cloakingsumo198]

I feel only conflict when discussing this topic but we must endure this hardship to come out as better people (and with a better Wolfgang) so that we are all shined on equally in the end. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Or you are tricking yourself into thinking you are having fun pressing the button in the right time/standing doing absolutely nothing for more statue speed

or you dont know how to use the new wolfgang since all your comments are over exagerations of how it actually works

and thar im hsving fun with the rework doesnt mean that i dont see room for improvements but im not that biased

is funny to see how some wolfgang mains doesnt even think about how to make him more interesting, just spam "bring my nonsesse stat back because i cant kite"

[Dextops]

On 12/13/2021 at 8:30 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

or you dont know how to use the new wolfgang since all your comments are over exagerations of how it actually works

and thar im hsving fun with the rework doesnt mean that i dont see room for improvements but im not that biased

is funny to see how some wolfgang mains doesnt even think about how to make him more interesting, just spam "bring my nonsesse stat back because i cant kite"

Even if it is an exaggeration it is how he works and it’s bad game design especially to what doing so pays off to which is not much. A lot of the rework seems to be half baked and just mocking the other sides claim doesn’t help but only invalidate your claim further