The rework is pretty good actually

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

then doesn't this counteract the argument of his speed is only useful until he gets a beefalo?

Not really, because Wolfs Speed was a permanent perk just for continuing to eat more.. unlike WX78 who’s overcharge diminishes over time and is quite difficult to keep & maintain.

Im judging all of this on Pre-Rework Wolfgang mind you: the one that could eat food, go fast.. punch hard.

I have yet to get to play the New version so I can’t share an opinion on how hard it is or isn’t to get and keep Mighty.

The people who screamed Wolfgang OP needs Nerf: We’re doing that based on Pre-2019 content updates- And Pre-2019 content updates Wolfgang was the most busted thing in the entire franchise.

But ever since 2019: Klei has been making other characters more powerful, making other items more accessible, reworking the way certain mechanics of the game work completely and giving everyone Day 1 Beefalo mounts.

There’s even a very high Sanity restoration Tea you can create in a garden with as little as a forget me lot, honey and Ice..

Klei has to balance all reworks, tweaks and changes around all these changes they’ve already been making.

Prior to the 2019 updates: Wolfgang WAS Op and needed Heavy nerfs, but the more Klei changed and added to the game Wolfgang’s OP’ness felt less and less so.

Its even to the point I would advocate to remove Puny form from the game completely so that casuals aren’t turned off by being punished by not knowing how to play.

Yes: I just said remove the unnecessary extra annoyances of Wimpy, it has no practical use in the game besides making the lives of people who aren’t well adapt at the game already lives more miserable.

No Wimpy= Less time spent getting back to Mighty.

Everyones feedback should be heard about these characters and not just one particular view point should be dominate over all others EVERYONES Opinions matter here: And I trust in Klei to make something spectacular out of his rework like they did with Wes.

A few things to note though: Klei names them Reworks & Refreshes differently for a reason: A refresh is a simple couple minor changes to what’s already there, a Rework is like redesigning the character completely.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Prior to the 2019 updates: Wolfgang WAS Op and needed Heavy nerfs, but the more Klei changed and added to the game Wolfgang’s OP’ness felt less and less so.

Its even to the point I would advocate to remove Puny form from the game completely so that casuals aren’t turned off by being punished by not knowing how to play.

Yes: I just said remove the unnecessary extra annoyances of Wimpy, it has no practical use in the game besides making the lives of people who aren’t well adapt at the game already lives more miserable.

No Wimpy= Less time spent getting back to Mighty.

Everyones feedback should be heard about these characters and not just one particular view point should be dominate over all others EVERYONES Opinions matter here: And I trust in Klei to make something spectacular out of his rework like they did with Wes.

A few things to note though: Klei names them Reworks & Refreshes differently for a reason: A refresh is a simple couple minor changes to what’s already there, a Rework is like redesigning the character completely.

im very confused on what you're saying are you saying that wolfgang was op wolfgang isn't op anyway yes i do agree all viewpoints should be heard and ive tried to make some compromise ideas like speed boost being linear but stuck at a smaller number ex 1.1-1.15 and making wimpy form slower and for people who find getting mighty boring make it so chopping and mining can add to to it and give him smaller perks that aren't outclassed 

[MarkBlocos]

4 hours ago, blacknight7890 said:

Are you saying that you only played Wolfgang because he was Easy Mode?

i play wolfgang when i want to do bosses quickly for building lategame fun
and others for more survival

i dont have much time to play and having the option to just cut in half the time to defeat solo bosses is good for me. ALso the speed helps in that process. But hey, now i cant have that so i guess your ranked matches on dst will be safe right?

One thing i dont get, people say eat and fight is boring, but lifting dumbells is just stationary watching wolfgang do his thing while you take a bite of your sandwich afk. The speed would allow you to kite and do most bosses whitou even taking damage. Now the refresh just incentivizes you to tank and spank, making the fights boring.

4 hours ago, goblinball said:

Prior to Wes’s rework his identity was “I am a worse wilson who is useless to the team and brings nothing to the table” but that didn’t stop Klei from giving him perks so what’s your point?

wes is still has the identity of the "failed" survivor, with a few perks cause dst is: 1.playable with other people, 2. harder to do bosses solo.

I dont like that every character was buffed and wolfgang got nerfed for no reason.

[blacknight7890]

57 minutes ago, MarkBlocos said:

I dont like that every character was buffed and wolfgang got nerfed for no reason.

I'm sorry man, but ever since the reworks were first announced, the writing was on the wall. Wolf's nerf was foretold from the start, he has always made other characters Inferior by simply existing, It makes sense that klei would try to reign him in. It was never going to be pretty, but a change had to happen.

You should be thankful that they not only kept the x2 damage, but made it stay x2 when he's mighty. He also can stay like that for a whole day now, so you need less food to rush bosses. The only issue would be raid bosses, but a gembell or a gym set off to the side will easily fix that. Wolfgang is still the beast he has always been, you just need to keep a Cane handy like every other character.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I don't understand the whole sentiment that Wolfgang is the best when other characters can do arguably cooler stuff than just fight. Summon shadows, fight with aoe companion, control spiders or merms, use a multitude of books, build electrical contraptions, teleport and heal, go into 3 monster forms, or be a masochistic plant. All these options are niches but they all do things impossible for others.

[Mike23Ua]

14 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I don't understand the whole sentiment that Wolfgang is the best when other characters can do arguably cooler stuff than just fight. Summon shadows, fight with aoe companion, control spiders or merms, use a multitude of books, build electrical contraptions, teleport and heal, go into 3 monster forms, or be a masochistic plant. All these options are niches but they all do things impossible for others.

Exactly: Klei only made being mighty fun in fights and I was hoping being mighty in of itself would be fun, the dudes supposed to be mighty but he can’t Merm punch a Boulder? Is this implying that Merms are stronger then him? If so does that mean that Merms should deal MORE damage when they hit you?? It just doesn’t make any sense.

I think some fun stuff to do while Mighty beyond just moving heavy objects would really pull him into being the Mighty Wolfgang, Pulling up Boat masts immediately without needing to time it through sheer strength alone.

Being able to Mine and Chop with his Bare fists (which would require getting to Mighty stage to use) and will NEVER be as effective as Wurt and 10 Merms, Woodie with insane chopping speed and an infinite durability axe.

I just picture this man with ridiculous levels of strength pushing a tree over.. it’s slow… no way in Heck it can ever compare to an army of workers (almost anyone can hire a bunch of pigs for wood gathering anyway)

WHY is his Might tied exclusively to Boss fights? I get that Klei wants him to be the best choice for boss fights as intended design: but there is so so much more being Mighty could do beyond just 2x damage.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Hell yeah, if we're gonna just lean onto Wolfgang's strongman persona only I want it to be different and fun make us wanna be that strong all the time make us feel like STRONGMEN I wanna sucker punch trees and rocks, own that mast and row hard, and still have time to flex, lift and eat.

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

12 hours ago, Dextops said:

yes it does it raises his skill ceiling all this did was nerf skill because idk skill doesn't belong here?

How does speed require more skill? It just makes it easier to kite...

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

How does speed require more skill? It just makes it easier to kite...

if you're precise enough you're able to get an extra hit in which a regular joe can't do

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

My point is the game is changing… and hopefully Klei see’s that when deciding what needs to be Buffed & Nerfed or changed.

I really agree with this point. Games change and should change, so I welcome whatever this rework offers, especially since it's hard to make a boring character like Wolfgang worse.

7 minutes ago, Dextops said:

if you're precise enough you're able to get an extra hit in which a regular joe can't do

Does a 25% speed increase even open up new kiting windows?

[Dextops]

5 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

I really agree with this point. Games change and should change, so I welcome whatever this rework offers, especially since it's hard to make a boring character like Wolfgang worse.

Does a 25% speed increase even open up new kiting windows?

yes

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

10 minutes ago, Dextops said:

yes

Like what? I'm just curious

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Like what? I'm just curious

I remember getting more hits in on shadow creatures before needing to dodge, same thing with any swarmer class enemies, especially shadow monkies once they are on top of each other pushing one another closer to you. Any dodges that require precise timing is easier, things that pounce or charge are easier to side step, rushing in to stunlock mctusk before anyone agro's is useful same thing with bishops before they blast you. 

 

I don't believe speed just needs to make new avenues for attack but also increase the margin for error especially in precise dodge situations

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

2 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I don't believe speed just needs to make new avenues for attack but also increase the margin for error especially in precise dodge situations

Yeah this it what I was trying to say, that I think more speed does not equate to more skill allowed.

 

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Yeah this it what I was trying to say, that I think more speed does not equate to more skill allowed.

 

So does tank and spank sound more enjoyable than armourless kiting?

I never enjoyed taking hits when most attacks could be avoided if you just got a magi or a cane it's also far more enjoyable than holding f as you press 1 to eat your perogies when you are low health. Only speed can help with your dodging

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

2 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

So does tank and spank sound more enjoyable than armourless kiting?

Um no. Imo the game should be hard enough to where most people have to prepare for boss fights to some extent. If you can just enter every boss with a hambat and win, what's the point of all the material and farms that exist in the game? After all, it is a survival game. I do like kiting, but kiting shouldn't be a means to all ends.

[Cloakingsumo198]

9 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Um no. Imo the game should be hard enough to where most people have to prepare for boss fights to some extent. If you can just enter every boss with a hambat and win, what's the point of all the material and farms that exist in the game? After all, it is a survival game. I do like kiting, but kiting shouldn't be a means to all ends.

If a person can armorless kite bosses and take no damage that person earned their right to do so that takes skill and practice and sounds far more enjoyable than over preparing for a boss cause you can't dodge period. Kiting exists for a reason and it's because it allows a risk reward scenario when you aren't ready or don't want to take unnecessary damage even when armoured up most people still kite to avoid breaking their armour

A new player will not be able to pick up a hambat as Wolfgang and just kill every boss lol who are you seeing do that? Most baby Wolfgang I met just struggled with staying in normal form already.

The game should respect pros and beginner alike as the methods each player chooses will be different

Armour beginner friendly, speed and kiting pro friendly

[Mike23Ua]

Crazy idea: What if Wolfgang was given back his speed but could no longer stack speed, like his own natural speed could no longer be combined with a Walking Cane for example- In fact… let’s just make it so he won’t pick up a walking cane at all “Wolfgang Mighty there’s No one that’s Mightier!” This allows Wolf to leave the Cane to characters who actually NEED to go fast, while also not making him run around at ridiculously broken levels of speed when his own speed stacks with other Speed items.

[Cloakingsumo198]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Crazy idea: What if Wolfgang was given back his speed but could no longer stack speed, like his own natural speed could no longer be combined

That is pretty crazy maybe crazy enough but I'll put that aside

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

43 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

If a person can armorless kite bosses and take no damage that person earned their right to do so that takes skill and practice and sounds far more enjoyable than over preparing for a boss cause you can't dodge period. Kiting exists for a reason and it's because it allows a risk reward scenario when you aren't ready or don't want to take unnecessary damage even when armoured up most people still kite to avoid breaking their armour

A new player will not be able to pick up a hambat as Wolfgang and just kill every boss lol who are you seeing do that? Most baby Wolfgang I met just struggled with staying in normal form already.

The game should respect pros and beginner alike as the methods each player chooses will be different

Armour beginner friendly, speed and kiting pro friendly

Not sure if you understood my response, but I agree mostly with what you're saying. Kiting is a great way to reward skill. And ofc I don't see new Wolfgangs hamming their way to victory naked, but I certainly see experienced Wolfgangs doing it. Which brings me to my point,  a game should always have some sort of challenge. If you can kite every boss perfectly why are you even playing the game. There's no challenge when you can do everything perfect. Part of survival games is preparation and restoration, which is why I said kiting shouldn't be a means to all ends.

Also how is speed pro friendly if it just makes things easier? Sounds beginner friendly to me

[Vultureneck]

2 hours ago, blacknight7890 said:

You should be thankful that they not only kept the x2 damage, but made it stay x2 when he's mighty. He also can stay like that for a whole day now, so you need less food to rush bosses. The only issue would be raid bosses, but a gembell or a gym set off to the side will easily fix that. Wolfgang is still the beast he has always been, you just need to keep a Cane handy like every other character.

He doesn't even stay mighty for a full day actually. and no, having a gembell or gym set off to the side does not easily offset that, you don't always have the leisure of ignoring a boss to get the reps in, not to mention it's impossible to do if you're soloing. 

Wolfgang has one things he's known for and it's killing big bosses so I'm not going to be "thankful" that he can still kinda do it, I'm just going to play a different character. 

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Crazy idea: What if Wolfgang was given back his speed but could no longer stack speed

Hmmm, I think it'd have to just be for walking cane or else people would get more mad.

4 minutes ago, Vultureneck said:

Wolfgang has one things he's known for and it's killing big bosses so I'm not going to be "thankful" that he can still kinda do it, I'm just going to play a different character. 

Wanda time

[Cloakingsumo198]

17 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Not sure if you understood my response, but I agree mostly with what you're saying. Kiting is a great way to reward skill. And ofc I don't see new Wolfgangs hamming their way to victory naked, but I certainly see experienced Wolfgangs doing it. Which brings me to my point,  a game should always have some sort of challenge. If you can kite every boss perfectly why are you even playing the game. There's no challenge when you can do everything perfect. Part of survival games is preparation and restoration, which is why I said kiting shouldn't be a means to all ends.

Also how is speed pro friendly if it just makes things easier? Sounds beginner friendly to me

If you wish for a challenge than by all means punch dragonfly to death :). But Wolfgang is extremely unpopular most noobs would stay away from him and the few Wolfgang's you see are people who actually main him for 1000 hour or more and they are pretty cool people but are the exceptions to the whole average.

speed is pro friendly as it allows taking no damage vs just choosing to get hit.  If a player decides to use the tools the game gives them as they are intended they aren't making their less worthy or whatever it's PVE you shouldn't cry if people say using certain items is a crutch if they make your play experience easier or more enjoyable

Getting better loot is just a means to an end, how you get to the end doesn't really matter though

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

13 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

If you wish for a challenge than by all means punch dragonfly to death :). But Wolfgang is extremely unpopular most noobs would stay away from him and the few Wolfgang's you see are people who actually main him for 1000 hour or more and they are pretty cool people but are the exceptions to the whole average.

speed is pro friendly as it allows taking no damage vs just choosing to get hit.  If a player decides to use the tools the game gives them as they are intended they aren't making their less worthy or whatever it's PVE you shouldn't cry if people say using certain items is a crutch if they make your play experience easier or more enjoyable

Getting better loot is just a means to an end, how you get to the end doesn't really matter though

I'm not to the skill of punching yet lol, but you see a lot of people complaining how the game is too easy. Also I feel like the response on the forums about the rework proves that Wolfgang is popular but idrc.

If someone's a pro at the game they wouldn't need speed to kite (most bosses), which is why I say speed makes the game easier. 

Still don't think you understood what I said about kiting, I said it shouldn't be a means to ALL ends. Kiting bosses is great, but it's also super fun how bosses like fuel weaver require you to utilize specific gear and not just repeatedly run away.

And yeah people are gonna play a game how they want, idc. I just think playing without a built in 25% speed boost is more fun and challenging. If you want that boost then spawn in a walking cane or increase your player speed stat.

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

I'm not to the skill of punching yet lol, but you see a lot of people complaining how the game is too easy. Also I feel like the response on the forums about the rework proves that Wolfgang is popular but idrc.

If someone's a pro at the game they wouldn't need speed to kite (most bosses), which is why I say speed makes the game easier. 

Still don't think you understood what I said about kiting, I said it shouldn't be a means to ALL ends. Kiting bosses is great, but it's also super fun how bosses like fuel weaver require you to utilize specific gear and not just repeatedly run away.

And yeah people are gonna play a game how they want, idc. I just think playing without a built in 25% speed boost is more fun and challenging. If you want that boost then spawn in a walking cane or increase your player speed stat.

What even is this type of argument style

You don't seem to understand that not everyone needs to make the game challenging and not everyone sees it as easy if it was I'm sure more people would be willing to join mid winter or spring but that isn't the case. Same thing with character popularity people on the forums are going crazy cause the rework is a hot topic but looking at character picks Wolfgang is pretty low.

Also fuel weaver used to have some ways to not need special equipment like the lazy explorer or you could use sanity affecting items instead of the purple necklace hell even just having an extra player with you can help alot.

Even pro players will use gear to make combat easier just because they know how to play doesn't mean they have to cripple themselves just to have fun that's masochistic fun at best or dumb at worst.

And the last part why even include that in your argument. If you don't care how the game changes than don't interact in the forums