The carnivore achievement very difficult

[Zurutza]

23 hours ago, WhiteWind36 said:

Because when going super sustainable it is the only available source of power

is that so? what about solarpanels? they wont need co2/plastic/fiber.

[WhiteWind36]

55 minutes ago, Zurutza said:

is that so? what about solarpanels? they wont need co2/plastic/fiber.

Yes, there is solar, but much later on... 'cause for solar you need glass, and according research to be done, and for the research you need material science, for which you need radbolts, and all of this is a lot of energy to start... So before going solar you need to push hydrogen to be able to go solar...

[Zurutza]

Edit: i think i was mistaken. i agree that solar is tough early in the game. i mostly handled power with manual gens early. it was around turn 90 that i finished research for solar and started going for it until then i did have some hydrogen gens but i mostly use them to handle the hydrogen as a waste product in my oxygen production. i just reviewed my old save and i even did have an hydrogen vent discovered that i didnt used until my solar power was completed what a waste.

[WhiteWind36]

On previous play I had hydrogen vent, and I captured it in the very beginning, played on that map 900+ cycles and never went solar, except for rockets, because I did turbines powered by volcanos... But that was different story, I had plastic from drecko's and even gave up the idea of going super sustainable just to be able to burn ethanol to clear the map and later on get some free water and PD from it... Water to pump in oil reservoir and PD to feed sage hatch, to make coal, 'cause on that map wasn't much coal and when growing plants I was using lots of water...

[Zurutza]

the lack of plastic is annoying all the more reason to go for solar. the only other really good sustainable energy source is steam and well thats a no go without plastic. I admit that i never tried to use hydrogen to create an energy surplus (with the exception of hydrogen vents). It always is a nice byproduct of my oxygen production but my main energy comes early from manuel gen -> then solar -> then petroleum boiler. Although i did solar quite late (well turn 90 isnt that late tough) its not that hard to get there. Have some weezeworts and a single rad gen and you´ll get the research without problem. even manual gens should be enough to power a single rad gen. one weezeworts gets you already 32-38 rads per cycle if you build the rad gen close by. It should be easy to get enough weezeworts to generate ~100rad per cycle which would mean you´ll have glasswork and solar research done in around 4 cycle. There is also the manuell rad gen which require uranium ore and no power but i havent tested it yet. Solar will end youre energy problems for quite some time. It mostly did for me until i needed aquatuner to cool things of, which is a long way if you use trundra biomes to cool things. Enough to easily get the archievment and afterwards you can go for a petroleum boiler for fuel and extra energy and produce plastic the old fashion way or venture out in space to find some dreckos.

10 hours ago, WhiteWind36 said:

Water to pump in oil reservoir and PD to feed sage hatch, to make coal, 'cause on that map wasn't much coal and when growing plants I was using lots of water...

well thats kinda the good part about carnivore. Once its running you wont need water for food production. Although ive read somewhere that starve farming hatches is not viable i cant see the reason behind it. Im doing so and its working just fine yet i didnt have any need for coal as i had a lot in my starting asteroid. It might even work with plug slugs which would make things a lot easier but i havent tested it yet.

[WhiteWind36]

6 hours ago, Zurutza said:

Have some weezeworts and a single rad gen and you´ll get the research without problem. even manual gens should be enough to power a single rad gen. one weezeworts gets you already 32-38 rads per cycle if you build the rad gen close by. It should be easy to get enough weezeworts to generate ~100rad per cycle which would mean you´ll have glasswork and solar research done in around 4 cycle. There is also the manuell rad gen which require uranium ore and no power but i havent tested it yet.

Don't have any weezworts. But you are right, now there is manual radbolt gen, and radiation lamp. I guess I just delay too long to start material science research. Although I'm only on cycle 118 and now already have some glass and according research done to start solar. Maybe only drawback is that that you need a lot of solar panels and a lot of power wires, also batteries to support system when there is no light... On this particular map I run very low on all metals, even started to use iron, wolframite and uranium, just to be able to do some glass and to build a rocket. Counting every single building and deconstructing everything from metal what is not vital at the moment. It's a very metal poor map, although it is said 'no traits'. That's main reason why I couldn't make it in time with carnivore achievement, 'cause I had only one incubator and no shipping system at all, because I was lacking metal, and didn't want to destroy my precious metal in rock crusher, had to build metal refinery.

[Zurutza]

what a starting location... lack of metal combined with no plastic is a challenge and no weezeworts to top it. All i can think of is exploring as much as possible in hope you can find a metal volcano and then get very creativ on how to cool it down without steam turbines. You can generate rad with shiny bugs but if you dont have them as well then testing the manuell rad gen would be more or less the only option i can think of. The lack of metal is a really good reason to abandon carnivore. I had 6 smart batteries and 4 normal batteries, 8 manuell gens and 9 incubertors on turn 79(the incubertors were automated so that they only run for 15% of a cycle and max 2 of them at the same time) and 19 dups. The production was enough to get carnivore but not enough to really feed the colony. Had to rely on printing some food, harvesting wild plants etc to get by sometimes. Havin enough incubertos is key for carnivore (and i would aim for like 14 not 9 - i was struggling a lot and it was quite close). I admittedly cant see a way to do it without plenty of incubertors.

[Coolthulhu]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:05 PM, WhiteWind36 said:

for which you need radbolts, and all of this is a lot of energy to start

If you don't mind startscumming, getting broken satellites on your home world is a massive boost to radbolt efficiency.

[Spoonwood]

On 11/10/2021 at 6:05 AM, WhiteWind36 said:

Yes, there is solar, but much later on... 'cause for solar you need glass, and according research to be done, and for the research you need material science, for which you need radbolts, and all of this is a lot of energy to start... So before going solar you need to push hydrogen to be able to go solar...

That was my initial plan too.  First make an electrolyzer system and use excess hydrogen for power.  And that's what I did in my last playthrough (I was playing with 'no teleporter', I forgot about the teleporter achievement, so that run is done).

But, glass research is just one tech. It's only 20 "radbolt research" points if I recall correctly.  On some maps at least, it wouldn't be too much trouble to build maybe 2 batteries and 2 hamster wheels, and cancel all other projects, except ranching and cooking, until that one is done (or near done).  I don't know, maybe three jumbo batteries and three hamster wheels would be better.  Then go back to other projects.

My original 8 for carnivore on standard hunger settings is usually two diggers, a researcher, two ranchers, a cook, an operator, and an artist (not in that particular order).  I use staggered scheduling.  With the cook, ranchers, and research being 4 duplicants total, that gives basically 4 duplicants to run to support the power for radbolt research, except they will to support other machines running also, like maybe incubators (I use switches so that they don't run all the time... and use ranching skill increase).  Even if I didn't use ranching skill increase, that still sounds like enough, since incubators aren't needed to run an entire 80 cycles in my experience, especially if settling two asteroids early and ranching on both of them, though some of the harder asteroids might work out that way.  They more come as needed to kickstart meat production.

Or taking more duplicants at that level could work.  GrindThisGame I think just used hamster wheels in his latest playthrough to get the glass research done.  Crops can get planted once locavore is done, so taking duplicants more freely is possible.

If playing on the 500 kcal setting, 16 or more duplicants should, I think, be able to handle running to get the glass research done without needing to cancel all that many projects in process, I think.  Though, there can exist a looming oxygen issue with that many duplicants.

Really, I guess one only might need to cancel any projects at the rock crusher, metal refinery, or kiln, and max everyone on operating for that time period, except the researcher, cook, and rancher.

Though I am speculating here.  I haven't actually tried that strategy myself and seen how it works.

[WhiteWind36]

I tried to do carnivore achievement on rocky oil asteroid on max difficulty - although I failed, but there is few tips I can share, that could help.

I've read all this topic and didn't find anyone mentioning that you can skip research of rock crusher if you choose starting map with oil biome which has tons of refined metal - lead - to build incubators and any automation needed.

Also there is interesting thing with hatch farming when they can dig in to ground, when they are underground they don't get overcrowded or cramped, although they can be groomed only when they are out.

It's possible to start ranching before cycle 10, you just have to roll initial dupe with critter ranching skill.

If planning to ranche hatches for achievement, then you need at least 5 of them from the start - assuming you will start ranching before cycle 10.

And one question about binge eaters: exactly how much they can eat on one rampage? 'cause I had 3 binge eaters stressed but they did not ate enough before stress levels dropped down.

[nessumo]

57 minutes ago, WhiteWind36 said:

And one question about binge eaters: exactly how much they can eat on one rampage? 'cause I had 3 binge eaters stressed but they did not ate enough before stress levels dropped down.

This comes from me playing minibase before DLC, but from my observations for maximum efficiency you want binge eater to focus on stressing only. Plan is: he goes to 100% stress, eats a lot, drops to 60% stress and in "good" conditions he can repeat this every cycle. Having that I saw one binge eater consuming over 10K of food per cycle. No hard numbers here, as there were many factors involved, but I would say 10K/cycle/dupe is quite achievable.

[SackMaggie]

3 hours ago, WhiteWind36 said:

If planning to ranche hatches for achievement, then you need at least 5 of them from the start - assuming you will start ranching before cycle 10.

No, just one hatch is enough If you use incubator for every egg you get, You will have about 20 hatches 50-60 cycle after you start the ranch, Which is enough food for 12 dupes.

With 12 dupes you will need to start eating barbecue at cycle 66, Which I believe it very archivable.

 

3 hours ago, WhiteWind36 said:

I tried to do carnivore achievement on rocky oil asteroid on max difficulty - although I failed

I've tried 4 attempts on flipped asteroid, I think I need better strategy.

[WhiteWind36]

6 hours ago, SackMaggie said:

I've tried 4 attempts on flipped asteroid, I think I need better strategy

I was thinking that flipped asteroid could be next best option for carnivore, because of sweeties. Just need to make sweetie lay grubgrub eggs, and that will give faster growth and provide more meat than hatches...

Although on rocky oil you have plenty of refined metal which helps a lot building incubators.

[Spoonwood]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:15 AM, WhiteWind36 said:

I tried to do carnivore achievement on rocky oil asteroid on max difficulty - although I failed, but there is few tips I can share, that could help.

 

You played on the Desolands?

Did you use the teleporter to go to the second asteroid?

[Spoonwood]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:48 AM, SackMaggie said:

No, just one hatch is enough If you use incubator for every egg you get, You will have about 20 hatches 50-60 cycle after you start the ranch, Which is enough food for 12 dupes.

With 12 dupes you will need to start eating barbecue at cycle 66, Which I believe it very archivable.

 

I've tried 4 attempts on flipped asteroid, I think I need better strategy.

What difficulty settings are you playing with?

When I've taken a look at the flipped asteroid it seems that the Desolands is always the 2nd asteroid.  In my opinion, this makes it the easiest of the final five for getting carnivore.  I just looked at one Flipped asteroid map, and using debug mode I counted 20 hatches and 27 sweeltes on the starting asteroid.  There were 6 hatches on the desolands.  2 hatch ranches of 7 hatches is enough for carnivore, if you get constant meat production up by cycle 50 and that's often achievable with the help of incubators.  So, that sample there seems like an abundance of possible sources for carnivore so much so that I'm not sure incubators would even need used at all if one dug aggressively enough.  Maybe it's unusual, I don't know.

With respect to carnivore/locavore, when hatches are avialable quickly, I think the best strategy involves taking two diggers and then a researcher or maybe a rancher who does research early.  Maybe the diggers do some basic setup like outhouses and beds.  Then they dig up where the ranches will go and build them.  Then they go around digging up all the cracks in the sandstone biome and it's borders for all the muckroot.  It's quickest to use digging techniques as hinted here in this video.  Some ladders for basic travel that everyone will use.  But, much, if not most early digging is about finding critters in cracks or liberating sweetles.  The way I think about it, the sooner a hatch is uncovered, the sooner it can lay an egg.  The sooner sweetles are liberated, the sooner they can lay eggs.  No need for fancy infrastructure, except for where research, cooking, ranching, and incubating will happen. Bedrooms don't need fully dug out, just enough space to plop cots down and some tile flooring for quicker movement.  But dig up *all* the cracks sooner rather than later.

I also like to use switches with incubators.  I do use the ranching skill increase these days, but I did a few carnivore runs without it on Terra.

I haven't played flipped, but my strategy if playing unmodded for an all achievement run would be as follows on standard settings.

1. Take diggers and a researcher to start.  The researcher has operating as his/her second priority so that he/she will run on the wheel as soon as he's drained the power from researching.  Maybe life support as high as researching.  Oh, I always deconstruct my ration box and put the research station in it's place on cycle 1 or 2 for the light bonus.  The supercomputer goes directly on the other side of the printing pod for it's light bonus.

2. Take the best duplicant on cycle 3.  That duplicant will get the farming skill to harvest any wild plants growing, and later become a rancher at about cycle 11 or cycle 12.

3. I like to research for a jumbo battery and deodorizers first.  But, honestly, both of those could probably get skipped if you don't mind some polluted oxygen from polluted dirt.  Research the rock crusher and firepoles next.  Then the ranching tech.  The tech for incubators.  And finally the tech for the automatic dispenser.  I always keep my research researching, but if I were concerned about carnivore I'd stop research at that point for a bit.  Or, thinking about the size of the flipped start, research only the technologies needed for an electrolyzer system.  Don't go with something chunky and time-consuming like a full rodriguez.  Forget oxygen pumps also for such a system.  Make it an open air system with a hydrogen pump and then use excess hydrogen to power metal refinement (possibly unnecessary if your second asteroid is the desolands) or to power incubators.  Switches can help conserve a lot of power when using incubators.  Cycle sensors also can help.  Sinks and lavatories can and should wait until all the cracks are dug, incubators are setup and running, and oxygen production is secure.

4. If the teleporter is found, at cycle 6, take the best duplicant, make them digger, and teleport him (or one of the starting diggers) to the desolands.  Defrost your friend.  Setup outhouses, and cots.  Get to crack digging on the desolands.  If the teleporter isn't found, take the best duplicant and make them an operator.  I like to have 8 incubators when I've done carnivore/locavore on one world, which is 32 rock crushes.  The operator will also be very useful for running on the wheel.

5. On cycle 9 take an operator if you took a digger and teleported.  If you took an operator, take another digger.

6. The other duplicants I would take on Flipped would be a cook, a second rancher, and a second cook.  I'd probably prefer to hold off on those until they have interests, but it's not necessary, and the second rancher might be more helpful sooner rather than later to helping out the first rancher, even if he has little skill in ranching (this is part of the reason why ranching critters should increase skill in the unmodded game).  The second cook is backup/help if one needs to cook.  One duplicant uses the musher for mush bars, while the other fries it up.  Lights can help with with.  The musher would be the most important building to have lit when operated, since it takes up the most power, and thus more power gets conserved by it's task getting done quicker.  I'd run two hatch ranches of 7 hatches each on Flipped.  I'd use a setup to drop the eggs into a drowning pit where the primary cook doesn't have access to place where eggs get dropped, but is the only person who has access to the drowning pit.

7. For the desolands, the defrosted friend defaults, I guess to a rancher.  Oh, whenever I've defrosted the friend he has three skill points ready for use.  This means that ranching could start as soon as one can teleport and finish the research.  It's only five techs in.  With a skilled researcher and good use of light, this suggests, that ranching could in principle start by cycle 8, I think, if not cycle 7.  But, I wouldn't count of finding the teleporter early.  On Terrania, sometimes it's been behind abyssaltie, and sometimes it's close, and accessible without even granite level digging.

O. K. so for the desolands, I'd have a digger, a rancher, a cook, and an operator there.  I'd run one ranch of 7 hatches.

8. I guess with that many sweetles, may as well set up a sweetle ranch after the hatch ranches are setup?

Though maybe oxygen production is a big issue on Flipped?

If I were playing on no sweat difficulty, I'd make sure to have 16 duplicants by cycle 50, but also have the same number of hatch ranches.  Now that does sound like there's some pressing oxygen production issues for sure, but there would also be more labor to handle that.

[WhiteWind36]

9 hours ago, Spoonwood said:

If the teleporter is found, at cycle 6, take the best duplicant, make them digger, and teleport him (or one of the starting diggers) to the desolands.  Defrost your friend.  Setup outhouses, and cots.  Get to crack digging on the desolands

I was playing on rocky oil asteroid ( as I understand you call it desolands) and teleporter there to the radioactive ocean. I found there 1 pip.

On my starting asteroide I found 6 hatches pretty early, and there was 8 starting hatches overall.

As my mechatronic engineer died from starvation on massage table I did not make any shipping, nor did I used automatic dispensers or doors to automate eggs removal from ranches. I've just builded incubators up till I had 20+ all of them on one 1kw wire with timer set to 30s on 570 off, having only one incubator enabled at the time. At the end I had 4 ranches 2x6 and 2x8 of hatches.

13 dupes on 200% difficulty, 4 of them with bottomless stomach and 5 of them binge eaters that were stressed last 5 cycles.

There was also some bug with atmosuits, they we're with atmosuits, but atmosuits we're not used and not showed on dupes. Also they had a soiled suit debuff, but could breathe normally like without suits. For additional stress there was dupes without suits to piss all over to make everyone get soggy feet debuff.

Although on cycle 92 I've got a care package of 12000 kcal barbeque and used an exploit on save/loading the game to get additional packages... Without it I've wouldn't have make it enough meat in time.

And there was 3 reasons for that:

1. At first I had ranches with natural tiles and hatches we're buried most of the time.

2. Had priorities and schedule issues with incubators and ranchers which supposed to lullaby eggs. Having lullabied eggs maybe only half time.

3. Trying to incubate slicksters, and dreckos. It takes much longer especially when taking in consideration (2).

Edited: oh! And another reason for not having enough meat in time was eating hatches to avoid starvation... Yup the biggest challenge is to not starve to death until you will have enough meat. Up till cycle 92, I've already had consumed 150k kcal of meat and in the next 8 cycles consumed 250k kcal, it's when my starving problem ended.

Edited more: also did not used any of the geysers, only starting water, oxygen from algae using diffusers and algae terrariums + deodorizers. Did not build rock cursher or metal refinery. Long time playing without mess hall to minimize the time needed for dupes to eat. Because when they need 2500 kcal per cycle and eats meal lice (600kcal), they eventually starts to starve because it not enough to eat just one time per cycle. And when there is no mess hall - they just eat food where it is and saves a lot of time. Also there was no food storage up till cycle 92, because any food available was eaten in less than half cycle.

[SackMaggie]

On 1/16/2022 at 2:30 AM, WhiteWind36 said:

I was thinking that flipped asteroid could be next best option for carnivore, because of sweeties. Just need to make sweetie lay grubgrub eggs, and that will give faster growth and provide more meat than hatches...

Although on rocky oil you have plenty of refined metal which helps a lot building incubators.

Yeah, it a lot easier once we go out side starting area, but that only in the start there's not enough sulfer to support them long term (the geyser dormant time).

13 hours ago, Spoonwood said:

What difficulty settings are you playing with?

On maxed difficulty, all achievements, no care package, teleported are allowed only once after landed a ship on secound asteroid(for teleported achievement)

My colony collapse within 40 cycles, Mainly I don't have enough food, power. If you try and survived that give me a tips pls.

[WhiteWind36]

30 minutes ago, SackMaggie said:

On maxed difficulty, all achievements, no care package, teleported are allowed only once after landed a ship on secound asteroid(for teleported achievement)

My colony collapse within 40 cycles, Mainly I don't have enough food, power. If you try and survived that give me a tips pls.

I wasn't aiming for all achievements just for carnivore. Max difficulty settings except for radiation 150% and suit wearing at 100%, also with care packages. For power only used manual and coal generators. Had 4 wheels, and 2 coal gen. Tried to feed dupes with mealwood and bristle blossom, but had to make lots of mush bars/mush fry and ate a lot of hatches, dreckos and slicksters too early to avoid starving to death. Hardest part is that everyone is busy with farming mealwood and almost all the time from cycle 10 till cycle 92 I've got warnings of starving dupes up to 3 dupes starving at the same time. Micromanaging all the time to barely survive. Also keeping as much as possible wild plants and even building ceiling lights for wild blossoms and for algae terrariums. I think it would be easier on normal settings, just you would need more oxygen for twice as much dupes. If to go for super sustainable and locavore, I would go for normal settings. Because on max difficulty you have to do mass mush bars and while you do it, it's not like you can do anything else. Even with mealwoods it is hard to keep up with food production. Most important is right scheduling and prioritizing. I am always going for 12 different schedules overlapping through all cycle. And you must have dedicated cooks and/or farmers and definitely ranchers.

For stress relief use massage table just beware that starving dupes don't go to eat while having a massage.

Did not care about decoration, and as I mentioned before did not build mess hall or any mess tables for very long time, to avoid dupes getting starved to death on the way to dedicated place for eating.

For morale builded a shower and washroom early on, just after starting ranches and before first incubators. (10-15th cycle)

Oh, very important - roll initial dupes with critter ranching skill, superhard digging skill and grilling.

[Spoonwood]

8 hours ago, SackMaggie said:

Yeah, it a lot easier once we go out side starting area, but that only in the start there's not enough sulfer to support them long term (the geyser dormant time).

On maxed difficulty, all achievements, no care package, teleported are allowed only once after landed a ship on secound asteroid(for teleported achievement)

My colony collapse within 40 cycles, Mainly I don't have enough food, power. If you try and survived that give me a tips pls.

I've thought sometimes that limiting it to four duplicants one max difficulty could work.  One rancher can keep up with two ranches of 7 hatches, and have time to hug eggs at least sometimes even with only skill from getting ranching it seems, if one uses switches to manually turn on the eggs when the rancher has time to hug them.  If the rancher has some skill, he/she should keep up most of the time I think.  Though, one would have to get the metal for the incubators.  Two diggers can dig everything up.  The fourth duplicant can research what is needed and cook mush fry.  Maybe one of the diggers could help out with mush fry.  4 duplicants on constant barbeque by cycle 50 is enough for carnivore.  Such an approach would also mean that one can take 3/4 of good duplicants at the start and only have one duplicant who is weaker.

But, I am speculating here.  8 mush fry a cycle is a lot of power and time.

Oh, I don't do it in the DLC, but I use to put shinebug eggs in a storage bin in my bathroom in the base game, then empty it, so that they would pee faster.  Incubators and cooking can all use light and probably come as more needed to get done quickly than peeing or eating.  So, have you tried putting shinebugs in your kitchen or incubator room?  I never make an actual room for incubators come to think of it.  Though, maybe on max difficulty shine bugs would lead to radiation sickness, I don't know.  As I think you know, it's only one rock crush to get enough wiring for a light connected to a motion sensor, though shine bugs are quicker and less power intensive.

I usually keep both research stations by the printing pod.  But, the musher will be the most power intensive, so maybe it makes sense to deconstruct the research station after a bit, and put the musher on the left side, and the grill on the right hand side.

Come to think of it, that new radiation eater trait could help to get some food on max difficulty if one uses shinebugs in certain areas.  I don't know how much that would help.  I found a post on reddit talking about pairing a radiation eater with a glowstick duplicant, and it seems that the radiation eater can get up to 500 kcal a cycle from a glowstick duplicant:

 

[SackMaggie]

@Spoonwood I played on 4 dupe as well, 2 digger 1 research and 1 cook(9 skill+). Turned out 1 cooker can barely support 4 dupes with mush bar(not much time to fry it). One of my digger running on generator half of the time. Research got so far ahead but nothing was actually built.

My next plan would be 1 digger, 1 build/operate, 1 cook, 1 rancher/research. Which hopefully balanced things out a bit. 

Although I never thought light buff might be a life saver (It's small but its benefit actually add up long run)

[Spoonwood]

2 hours ago, SackMaggie said:

@Spoonwood I played on 4 dupe as well, 2 digger 1 research and 1 cook(9 skill+). Turned out 1 cooker can barely support 4 dupes with mush bar(not much time to fry it). One of my digger running on generator half of the time. Research got so far ahead but nothing was actually built.

My next plan would be 1 digger, 1 build/operate, 1 cook, 1 rancher/research. Which hopefully balanced things out a bit. 

Although I never thought light buff might be a life saver (It's small but its benefit actually add up long run)

To review, the light buff is a 15% workspeed bonus.  Machines only consume power when running.  So, let's say it would take a duplicant 90 seconds to make a mush bar without light (I don't know if 90 is a good number here or not).  The musher consume 240 joules of power a second.  So, that's 21,600 watts of power.  If the duplicant has the light speed buff, I think it's (90 / 1.15) = 78.2 seconds to make a mush bar.  That's 18,768 watts of power.  It's both less time to finish the work and to run on the a generator (they are run by foot, not by hand!).  18,768 watts of power is (18,768 / 400) = 46.92 fewer seconds running on a wheel.  It would be less than that in practice due to runoff from a battery, but probably not much less.  I didn't realize that.  The biggest savings seems not so much from the faster operation of the machine such as a rock crusher or microbe musher, but the decreased amount of time spent using a pedal generator!  That's also less time spent moving from the machine to the pedal generator.

To review, mush fry increases the calories from a mush bar from 800 calories to 1050 calories.  250 calories is more than one fourth of 800.  The electric grill consumes 60 watts of power instead of 240 power.  So, one would conserve power by frying mush bars into mush fry, if the electric grill and microbe musher are close enough.  To get more precise, the least common multiple of 800 and 1050 is 16,800 according to a calculator I found online.  That's 21 mush bars or 16 mush fry, which would be 16 mush bars made and then 16 bars fried.  Given that mush bars took a second to make, that would be (21 x 240) = 5040 watts of power for the mush bars.  The mush fry would be ((16 x 240) + (16 x 60)) = (16 x 300) = 4800 watts of power.  A savings of 240 watts of power.  Which is about 4 less seconds spent running on a wheel. 

Edit: So, although frying mush bars doesn't save time for the first mush bar, if enough mush bars get fried, that will save time somewhat soon it seems.  It's less than 16 mush fry for sure, but I haven't figured out the logic on how to calculate when.

[Spoonwood]

Come to think of it, it's not necessary to have motion sensors to turn lights on and off.  All of that could get done by the player by using switches.  If there's only 4 duplicants, watching those who use the machines might work with liberal use of the pause button.

I think a 5th duplicant might pull his weight if 4 duplicants can't keep up with cooking mush fry.  I don't know about how to expand food past mush fry, since there's either another ranch which could take more time to get up, or farming in addition once locavore is completed.

[Spoonwood]

I've been trying this on Flipped, max difficulty settings.  Cycle 11.  I forgot to turn care packages off, but I haven't used them.  I'm at cycle 29, and haven't killed any critters in an emergency, though some have died naturally, and I think a sweetle got too cold when I dug out to sleet wheat.  I'm finding that sleet wheat helps a lot.  Thing is, I didn't do it right at first.  Sleet wheat should first get moved to an unpowered fridge next to the oven.  Then it should get cooked.  I've done things like reposition my cots, so that they don't sleep next to the cold biome.  I have 200 copper and have just finished research for incubators.  Cycle 28  I'm still sweeping eggs into a storage bin and dumping the eggs out every so often.  Sooo slow on research, and since my researcher has helped cook a fair deal, it seems like it might have been the right call.

I went with two diggers, and a rancher to start figuring I wouldn't need to research much.  Thing is, since I haven't made deodorizers like I usually do, and I've had some polluted ice melt (I have mopped it), I have a waft of polluted oxygen now getting all over the place and my duplicants get yucky lungs every so often.  Algae is starting to run low that I've dug up so far.  On cycle three I drew a +7 rancher with grilling skill.  I haven't tooled her for ranching, she's been researching.  On cycle six I drew a +5 cuisine duplicant who has become the main cook.

 I got minor radiaton sickness for one duplicant recently, but I think that's done with, and I dug up one of the offending wheezeworts in an area.  It's tricky.  One wheezewort seems safe enough.  Three wheezeworts in an area is probably not.  The radiation animations eat up time.

Also, on my map I've noticed that there's a steam vent, a hydrogen vent, and a natural gas geyser.  The steam vent is kind of close to ice, and the hydrogen vent kind of close to ice with an AETN.  My map has three AETNs.  Unless something has changed, they each could get deconstructed for 400 iron each, which could net me 6 incubators total.  Maybe keeping one around would be the right call long-term for such a map?  I'm pretty much in the dark of the value of doing that long-term on this map.

I tried making a storage bin for polluted dirt and putting the polluted dirt under water, and manually moving the sweeper to wash their hands.  That's worked, but since I have this waft of polluted oxyxgen from polluted water, I'm not sure it was worth it, and decided to stop doing it.

Not sure I'll continue.  The polluted oxygen started to bother me the last few cycles, and I'm still three techs away from deodorizers and might really want an electrolyzer before I even think about deodorizers. And still no automatic dispenser to make sweeping eggs more pleasant and require less micro-management.

Babysitting switches also isn't exactly fun and I leave them on or don't turn them on, because I'm trying to watch other things.  Motion sensors could replace all current switches I've used so far, but they couldn't replace how I use switches with incubators, and cycle sensors would require more research, and might run the incubator and the rancher might be too busy ranching critters since they prioritize grooming over egg hugging, even with incubators set at priority 9 and the station set at 5 from my experience.

Huh, I started thinking, is there even iron ore on this map?  I checked some random seed on Tools Not Included and it says that 1.6 tons of iron exist on the map, but I haven't seen it.  No iron ore.  Is that iron up near the magma at the top?  I was thinking that using radiant piping to keep the electrolyzer and hydrogen pump cool might work with some of the water, and there's ice.  Though, deconstructing an AETN and making 300 steel I guess would be another option.

[Spoonwood]

On 1/17/2022 at 9:14 AM, SackMaggie said:

Yeah, it a lot easier once we go out side starting area, but that only in the start there's not enough sulfer to support them long term (the geyser dormant time).

The liquid sulfur geyser I have is submerged in magma.  Have you seen that on your flipped asteroids?

[WhiteWind36]

2 hours ago, Spoonwood said:

The liquid sulfur geyser I have is submerged in magma.  Have you seen that on your flipped asteroids?

Seen this couple of times. I would say it is pretty fair, 'cause otherwise sulfur geyser would be too good.