Shine Bug farms

[DimaB77]

Two Shine Bug farms producing 1.5 and 7 kW:

[Tranoze]

lumber farm produce much more power + free Co2 to feed lavae with 0 need of dupe interaction for that size of room.
Or you can just drop 2 eggs in each cell and use dropper to feed them daily without care and they will keep their population the same.

[DimaB77]

3 hours ago, Tranoze said:

lumber farm produce much more power + free Co2 to feed lavae with 0 need of dupe interaction for that size of room.

What does the lumber have to do with it? I have an article about the lumber, too.

3 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Or you can just drop 2 eggs in each cell and use dropper to feed them daily without care and they will keep their population the same.

Whose two eggs? Shine Bug?

[Tranoze]

21 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

Whose two eggs? Shine Bug?

Oh you mean 55 shine bug per cell.. now that a real waste of power, not in game power but in real life power.
Even if shinebugs doesnt have to move more than 1 cell, game still have recalculate it's path, and it's room's population every now and then, so the lag doesnt got reduce much.

It very hard to understand your farm without 55 shine bugs per cell.

[DimaB77]

1. With 2 Shine Bug the panel will produce only 2.6 watts.

2. Each solar panel requires more than 50 Shine Bugto work at full power. In total you need more than 200 of them.
Are you suggesting to find 200 wild Shine Bug on the map? And 800 Shine Bug for the second circuit?

3. Once their population reaches 220 pcs, they do not need power, as I wrote in the article.

[Tranoze]

  

40 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

2. Each solar panel requires more than 50 Shine Bugto

 

Can you put 2 line of Visco-Gel on center of Solar panel, and one  tile on top to see if it reduce amount of light bug needed?

[DimaB77]

Bugs are placed in a single cage in order to limit their movements, and thus reduce the load on the computer.

I tried your version. The beetles need 37 pieces. 1.5 times less beetles, but 2 times more movements. In terms of load on the computer, this option would be worse, I think.

[Tranoze]

2 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

Bugs are placed in a single cage in order to limit their movements, and thus reduce the load on the computer.

I tried your version. The beetles need 37 pieces. 1.5 times less beetles, but 2 times more movements. In terms of load on the computer, this option would be worse, I think.

It movement only got caculate every 5 or 10 secs, depend on how fast your computer is.
And the movement function arent all function come with shinebugs, tbh that the least important function. Shine bug are the combination of light map + thermal ... Even if the shine bug dont move, the movement function still get call every few secs, so that wont reduce lag by any bit. If you dont know in DST, if you bait your pig with wall, that cause more lag that you leave pigs run around wild.

You should do a fps test with both setup before saying 55 shinebugs is better than 37 shine bugs.

And if you want 1 tile only, you can still do visco gel in U shape instead of l l, that leave only 1 free space for shine bugs.

[DimaB77]

Yes, I agree with you. It's worth testing. It's not good to have to waste viscogel in the circuit. That would put the circuit in the category of post-cosmic.
For a 1.5kW circuit it's absolutely unnecessary, but for a 7kW circuit, it's worth a try.

[Tranoze]

5 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

Yes, I agree with you. It's worth testing. It's not good to have to waste viscogel in the circuit. That would put the circuit in the category of post-cosmic.
For a 1.5kW circuit it's absolutely unnecessary, but for a 7kW circuit, it's worth a try.

Cosmic is not that big of a wall to prevent you from doing anything, I wouldn't waste food on shinebugs just to produce 1.5~7kW power and slow my game down early, where food/water and dirt are too important to waste on stuffs other than research.

Even without viscogel, you can still fill first layer with water and add 2 blob of liquid on top of it to create cell to hold shinebug.

And im sure 37 shinebug with 2 tiles will cause less lag than 55 shine bugs, because 1 shinebug with 110 tiles cause less lag than 55 shinebug with 1 tile each.
 

[DimaB77]

5 hours ago, Tranoze said:

I wouldn't waste food on shinebugs just to produce 1.5~7kW power and slow my game down early, where food/water and dirt are too important to waste on stuffs other than research.

Quote: "Diet: 0.17 kg/cycle"  Х Quote: "scheme, it takes about 45...50 cycles to give birth to 220 Shine Bug"

= 8,5 kg Phosphorite. Quote: "Once the circuit is in working mode, feeding and maintenance of Shine Bug can be stopped"

That is, the scheme requires about 9 (36) kg of phosphorus to start, and then we get 1.5 (7) kW of energy for free, + the shell and decor. I think that's great.
 

5 hours ago, Tranoze said:

And im sure 37 shinebug with 2 tiles will cause less lag than 55 shine bugs

What a persistent man And that's great.
I'm going to put together a diagram...

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, DimaB77 said:

What a persistent man And that's great.
I'm going to put together a diagram...

Last time i wasnt in game to put you a good perfect shinebug farm blueprint late game, but now i can do you atleast a good blueprint.
Shinebug shine for 9 tiles instead of 7 if you put it right in solar pannel so i think you can even reduce more number of shinebugs.
Build from bottom to top.
 

[DimaB77]

It's a great farm:

Only there was one little problem - I have no idea how to create a water trap not in debug, except for viscogel for 3 cells. There is no way to put a bottle emptier on the panel.

[LadenSwallow]

Based on a escher pump forum post about placing the requisite 2 gases, I would guess try the following:

 

1) Vaccum the desired area initially (tile/deconstruct method)

2) Build panel

3) Build bottom layer pipe/bridge and bridge in desired fluid (looks like brine/salt water)

4) Build top layer pipes and bridges and bridge in desired fluid (looks like water)

5) Deconstruct lower layer pipes/bridge to form bottom layer

6) Deconstruct top layer pipes/bridges to form top layer

My concern would be that liquid pipes can contain up to 10kg of fluid which would probably be sufficient to spread and drown the poor bugs, moreover, could be enough to flood the panel and prevent it working, and if it will keep working post reload?

So my guess to 'prime' the water drops will involve a 'mechanical filter' with appropriately set valve:

a) Build a 'c' or equivalent shape in 4 tiles, connect the 'open' sections to the input/output of a valve to create a 1 way loop.

b) Fill the loop with the desired fluid with a bridge (40kg fluid in loop), deconstruct the filling bridge.

c) Build pipes to required location from the valve input to the desired square.

d) Set the valve to (10000-x/4)g, where x is the desired fluid in the lone pipe segment (another forum post regarding fluid duplication suggests x<60g?).

e) Wait 4 seconds for the filter to loop all the fluid, each filter segment contains (10000-x/4)g, the lone pipe segment should contain xg.

f) Deconstruct the lone pipe segment.

 

You could reuse the same filter multiple times, but you would need to disconnect the input bridge before piping to each desired square (otherwise the filter will refill and then send more packets), and disconnect the piping to each desired square. I think the minimal amount of micromanagement would come from:

https://blueprintnotincluded.com/b/60aa17d036a98a71d7828022 , deconstructing the input bridge, the bridge to relevant already placed sections, and the pipe under the 'output' bridge by the valve.

 

If you wanted to get really fancy, you could perhaps use automation with pipe element sensors, liquid shutoffs, counters, buffer and filter gates, to automate the whole process, but you will be aiming to deconstruct elements of this anyway.

[DimaB77]

Tested it. (requires only 32 bug, water underneath gets in the way).
Thanks so much for the idea!

[LadenSwallow]

I've come across a potential further optimisation.

Using a tessellation of: https://blueprintnotincluded.com/b/60aa6e8b36a98a71d7828027 in sandbox mode, and creating a 3 horizontal panel 3 vertical panel version, and putting 26 shine bugs in each of 4 holes gives, create the two 'double water' locks around the chute:

top left and right panels: 148.82W top middle panel: 297.65W

middle left panel: 148.82 centre panel: 380W (maxed) middle right panel: 231.5W

2 bottom panels (collecting light only from above): 90.95

Limit Maximum Power per bug: 14.783...

Compared with: 380/32 = 11.875

So:

Pros, more power per bug. Furthermore, each bug is limited to 1 tile. Smaller vertical footprint

Con: Wider horizontal footprint, caveat: 4x8 = 32tiles, 5x7 = 35 tiles if deconstructing chutes, 6x7 if not deconstructing chutes, so smaller total footprint, the higher maximum power per bug would mean that it could even be potentially narrower for truly large solar power arrays (14.783/11.875 > 8/7). Top layer will not receive same power per bug as lower levels, thus requiring more bugs. Panels at the side would also require more bugs - could always 'hybridize' at edge cases, or accept the slightly lower output.

[Tranoze]

46 minutes ago, LadenSwallow said:

I've come across a potential further optimisation.

Why you both always have one tile between solarpanel? cant you just do this?

[LadenSwallow]

Unfortunately, the bottom of a solar panel doesn't count for a tile for the 'top' water layer to cling to, so the bugs can escape.

[Tranoze]

2 minutes ago, LadenSwallow said:

Unfortunately, the bottom of a solar panel doesn't count for a tile for the 'top' water layer to cling to, so the bugs can escape.

Are we talking about the same place the bug live? because all 4 tiles surrounded the bug arent bottom part of solar panel. They are 2 water tile and 2 diamond tile.

[LadenSwallow]

The requisite top water drop will form a tiny drop which for some reason the shine bugs are able to path through. If the top water drop touches a 'tile' instead of a solar panel, it instead makes a tile high wall preventing pathing.

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, LadenSwallow said:

The requisite top water drop will form a tiny drop which for some reason the shine bugs are able to path through. If the top water drop touches a 'tile' instead of a solar panel, it instead makes a tile high wall preventing pathing.

oh alright.
Also if that blueprint only 8.71/7 more efficient, then use 9 solar pannel + 7 light bug traps in a line of bug will still be better.

OP just want it to look nice so only used 1 bug spot for each panel, but they can be used that way.

[LadenSwallow]

The reason for the window panel between each panel is that it allows light to pass down to panels beneath it, the loss to the panels it is next to is more than offset by the additional power supplied to panels below.

[Tranoze]

23 minutes ago, LadenSwallow said:

The reason for the window panel between each panel is that it allows light to pass down to panels beneath it, the loss to the panels it is next to is more than offset by the additional power supplied to panels below.

What about putting shine bug here?

Bottom panel will still have some of it's part light by the top shinebug, but shine bug now have all it's 1800 lux covered in solar panel.
Bottom panel's light bug also light up top panel light bug also

[LadenSwallow]

The trouble then comes in actually filling that spot with a shinebug, the tile above the highlighted tile for some reason causes more light to hit bottom tiles in the current configuration.

[LadenSwallow]

Some more sandboxing has lead to yet another design: https://blueprintnotincluded.com/b/60aaefd236a98a71d7828032

Provided you are able to build in multiples of 15 wide tiles, then a 3 panel tall tessellation (so 6 solar panels total) yields ~2.27kW for 172 eggs (55 bottom, 51 mid, 66 top) ~13.2W per egg, occupying 60 tiles space, allowing space for autosweepers and conveyor loaders (which if you alternate sides with the sweepers lets you reduce the number of loaders) if you want the egg shells.

From spreadsheets, adding more layers further improves egg efficiency (4 layers (i.e. 16 tiles tall, 8 panels total) yields ~3kW for 226 eggs (from top 66, 51, 55, 54), ~13.4W per egg. The limit as layers tends to infinity is just under 14W per egg.