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HowlVoid

Easier Nightmare fuel for Wormwood

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Everyone can farm living logs now with mad lab + mushgnomes making Wormwoods perk lackluster.

Perhaps a new craft where he can sacrifice some hp to turn petals into evil petals. Plus allow him to passively shed petals between phases of his blooming.

Or

Passively shed evil flower petals between blooming phases. Or During blooming be able to rip off some evil flowers from himself.

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51 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Everyone can farm living logs now with mad lab + mushgnomes making Wormwoods perk lackluster.

 

still being easier and faster without need of waiting large amount of days to grow the totally normal trees (which needs living logs to start) or waiting mushgnomes respawn

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31 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

still being easier and faster without need of waiting large amount of days to grow the totally normal trees (which needs living logs to start) or waiting mushgnomes respawn

Yes but you only ever need a few darkswords for bosses. You can plant them in batches in preparation for each boss and once you have a number of sprouts that no longer even matters.

For example: in a season I can get 30~40 bat wings so 60~80 dark swords in ONE season. By the time I have run out of living logs I have already harvest more batches.

PLUS totally normal trees DON'T REVERT TO SMALL TREES. This means at some point you can have a huge forest ready to be harvested. What's funny is that Wormwood has an easy time paying the sanity cost so its a preferred method mid to late game.

Wormwood losses out long term in the time it takes for him to get nightmare fuel because a lot of character can farm it easily by killing nightmares or farming the monkeys. 

Beside the Chess pieces method exists so why not make it easier for Wormwood?

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17 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Yes but you only ever need a few darkswords for bosses. You can plant them in batches in preparation for each boss and once you have a number of sprouts that no longer even matters.

For example: in a season I can get 30~40 bat wings so 60~80 dark swords in ONE season. By the time I have run out of living logs I have already harvest more batches.

PLUS totally normal trees DON'T REVERT TO SMALL TREES. This means at some point you can have a huge forest ready to be harvested. What's funny is that Wormwood has an easy time paying the sanity cost so its a preferred method mid to late game.

Wormwood losses out long term in the time it takes for him to get nightmare fuel because a lot of character can farm it easily by killing nightmares or farming the monkeys. 

Beside the Chess pieces method exists so why not make it easier for Wormwood?

because he doesnt need more buffs like you suggest in every suggestion topic about wormwood. He is in a wonderful state and, even, if some of his perks, like creating living logs for a cheap price, seems less strong now it doesnt mean that is a bad perk

he doesnt need a perk to farm nightmere fuel when he already have one of the easier sanity management in the game

about living logs perk:

but this isnt needed when you can make an spider farm and use the silk for tents+all the food he can farm and glands for healing to get all the living logs you will ever need without the need of waiting for mushgnomes to respawn or crafting with the mad scientific farm

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1 hour ago, Just-guy said:

Wormwood has a flexible sanity management which makes it easier to obtain Nightmare Fuel, so I don't know if this could be much useful.

Yes, but killing the nightmares themselves takes a while. Wolfgang for example can amass a large number of bat wings passively with bunny men at a sinkhole. It would then not take long for him to have a forest of totally normal trees. With a bone helmet he can easily gain a lot of nightmare fuel do to his increased damage. This applies to both warly and wigfrid.

Wendy gets more uses per darksword thanks to abigail and this applies to Warly, Wigfrid and Wolfgang.

Willow can gain a lot nightmate thanks to bernie and pay the sanity cost for normal tress sprouts thanks to her fire sanity regen.

Winnona can farm nightmare monkey for easy nightmare fuel. 

Wormwood has the worst synergy with darkswords out of the reworked characters.

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

because he doesnt need more buffs like you suggest in every suggestion topic about wormwood.

Let me guess you main Wendy? How can you not see the large gap between him and Wendy or Warly? Just how far do you think a speed buff can get him? I don't ask to make him some god, just some buffs to give him an edge in battle. Is it so bad I want my favorite character to be given as much attention as others? You see Wormwood and assume, "oh yeah, hes great now, ok Klei, never touch Wormwood again." C'mon, get real.

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He is in a wonderful state and, even, if some of his perks, like creating living logs for a cheap price, seems less strong now it doesnt mean that is a bad perk

Never said its a bad perk. He is in a wonderful state that is true, but unless you main him too then you'd understand how in comparison to other characters he could be further polished. 

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he doesnt need a perk to farm nightmere fuel when he already have one of the easier sanity management in the game

Sanity management is a non issue for every character not just Wormwood. He is simply the only one that can gain it instantly if he so chooses. 

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about living logs perk:

but this isnt needed when you can make an spider farm and use the silk for tents+all the food he can farm and glands for healing to get all the living logs you will ever need without the need of waiting for mushgnomes to respawn or crafting with the mad scientific farm

This is a HORRID example. I would rather not have to rely on another character to make one of my perks more viable. 

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9 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Yes, but killing the nightmares themselves takes a while. Wolfgang for example can amass a large number of bat wings passively with bunny men at a sinkhole. It would then not take long for him to have a forest of totally normal trees. With a bone helmet he can easily gain a lot of nightmare fuel do to his increased damage. This applies to both warly and wigfrid.

Wendy gets more uses per darksword thanks to abigail and this applies to Warly, Wigfrid and Wolfgang.

Willow can gain a lot nightmate thanks to bernie and pay the sanity cost for normal tress sprouts thanks to her fire sanity regen.

Winnona can farm nightmare monkey for easy nightmare fuel. 

Wormwood has the worst synergy with darkswords out of the reworked characters.

use his traps to farm monkeys, easy and fast fuel

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3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

use his traps to farm monkeys, easy and fast fuel

So use living logs, to farm nightmare fuel for my living logs? It is in all honestly a valid strategy but you have to remember they are a pain to constantly re-set. It work for Winnona because once its set up, bam, you're done. Why else does no one use tooth traps for this type of fuel farming? Not to mention how messy and dangerous.

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23 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Let me guess you main Wendy? How can you not see the large gap between him and Wendy or Warly? Just how far do you think a speed buff can get him? I don't ask to make him some god, just some buffs to give him an edge in battle. Is it so bad I want my favorite character to be given as much attention as others? You see Wormwood and assume, "oh yeah, hes great now, ok Klei, never touch Wormwood again." C'mon, get real.

dont make assumptions since i didnt make any about you. I actually ask every time for a nerf to wendy so keep that comments to yourself

Spoiler

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no warly foods used in any of these worlds except for CK. Since it is so important to you to know what i play

23 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Sanity management is a non issue for every character not just Wormwood. He is simply the only one that can gain it instantly if he so chooses. 

but for him is easier

23 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

This is a HORRID example. I would rather not have to rely on another character to make one of my perks more viable.

is a valid example since is a multiplayer game and perks should be balanced taking in count that. And his perk is way to viable playing alone

10 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

So use living logs, to farm nightmare fuel for my living logs? It is in all honestly a valid strategy but you have to remember they are a pain to constantly re-set. It work for Winnona because once its set up, bam, you're done. Why else does no one use tooth traps for this type of fuel farming? Not to mention how messy and dangerous.

but he isnt winona, neither wigfrid, neither wendy. He is one of the most useful characters and his capability to do certain things like fighting shouldnt be compared with other characters that havent his utility. Seems like you want wormwood to be a jack of all trades + his strong perks

 

 

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36 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

dont make assumptions since i didnt make any about you. I actually ask every time for a nerf to wendy so keep that comments to yourself

Then its true? It kind of hypocritical to try and keep a character underdeveloped when Wendy is such a powerhouse. Not sure why you are taking it personally, though, assumptions are part of discussion, I need to to know where you are coming from because I honestly don't see your angle. 

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image.thumb.png.665b8571d6d6c53ebbae96f708141ed3.png

no warly foods used in any of these worlds except for CK. Since it is so important to you to know what i play

Knowing what someone uses is important because from that I can gather information for my counter argument.  Using Warly foods is a Warly perk not sure why you mentioned that... Using the florid postern does not suddenly erase every characters shortcomings. 

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but for him is easier

Yes. This is what's called a pseudo perk, because although it can be used as a positive it is normally a detriment (Losing sanity when chopping).  Its more of a side effect of using Wormwood and I would honestly trade it up for something more advance. 

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is a valid example since is a multiplayer game and perks should be balanced taking in count that. And his perk is way to viable playing alone

Then tell Klei that. Why is every Character so far a jack of all trades? They have a perk for battle, defence and utility? This is an assumption on your part that the single player portion of the community isn't being considered. 

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but he isnt winona, neither wigfrid, neither wendy. He is one of the most useful characters and his capability to do certain things like fighting shouldnt be compared with other characters that havent his utility. Seems like you want wormwood to be a jack of all trades + his strong perks

No he isnt. That's besides the point and not the point I am trying to make. Wormwood is a great character right now, but as a solo player I would like an edge in battle against the hp bloated bosses. The buffs I have recommended, though sometimes too much, have been far from overpowered. Also, this is the second assumption you've made. A simple edge in battle is all Im asking for, nothing less and nothing more.

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On 3/25/2021 at 2:50 PM, HowlVoid said:

Everyone can farm living logs now with mad lab + mushgnomes making Wormwoods perk lackluster.

People jumped on the new mush gnomes but they’re really not that reliable. You can get like 3-4 living logs easily enough but then you’ll need to wait for them to respawn. And they do have a decent 600 health so you’ll want a good weapon in the first place. It also depends on world gen.

I haven’t heard of anyone actually using the mad lab to farm totally normal trees. It’s really slow with lackluster returns.

On 3/25/2021 at 5:22 PM, HowlVoid said:

No he isnt. That's besides the point and not the point I am trying to make. Wormwood is a great character right now, but as a solo player I would like an edge in battle against the hp bloated bosses. The buffs I have recommended, though sometimes too much, have been far from overpowered. Also, this is the second assumption you've made. A simple edge in battle is all Im asking for, nothing less and nothing more.

He has a dirt cheap speed boost, and can produce dark swords easily. Wormwood is an amazing combat character.

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1 hour ago, Friendly Grass said:

People jumped on the new mush gnomes but they’re really not that reliable. You can get like 3-4 living logs easily enough but then you’ll need to wait for them to respawn. And they do have a decent 600 health so you’ll want a good weapon in the first place. It also depends on world gen.

In combination with the mad lab? They're more for getting a living log farm started. Having 600 hp isn't much of of a big deal when they're super easy to kite.

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I haven’t heard of anyone actually using the mad lab to farm totally normal trees. It’s really slow with lackluster returns.

Bat wings have a great chance of dropping. Its only slow initially but speeds up significantly especially if you plan on staying in a world for a long time. If you walk to a few sink holes you're bound to get tons of bat wings for them. Also living trees dont revert to smaller sizes so there's no reason why you can't plant tons of them in advance. Bearger can net tons of living logs on his own too. Living logs are plentiful and the mad lab is yearly available. Others should be using them more often if they're not. You turn 1 dark sword into 2 and have an extra for another potion. Its a great late game farm thats really a no brainer.

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He has a dirt cheap speed boost, and can produce dark swords easily. Wormwood is an amazing combat character.

Wolfgang has a dirt cheap speed boost, abigail has a dirt cheap potions, wx-78 hasnt been reworked yet, wurt has a dirt cheap speed bost, Woodie has a dirt cheap speed boost, your point? He isnt an amazing combat character at all, Warly, Wendy and Wolfgang are. They all get HUGE damage boosts for dirt cheap. Im not trying to make him a combat character either. Id like a small buff to deal with large hp bosses similar to how every reworked character has gotten a small combat advantage thus far.

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53 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Wolfgang has a dirt cheap speed boost, abigail has a dirt cheap potions, wx-78 hasnt been reworked yet, wurt has a dirt cheap speed bost, Woodie has a dirt cheap speed boost, your point? He isnt an amazing combat character at all, Warly, Wendy and Wolfgang are. They all get HUGE damage boosts for dirt cheap. Im not trying to make him a combat character either. Id like a small buff to deal with large hp bosses similar to how every reworked character has gotten a small combat advantage thus far.

Wolfgang needs to stay at max hunger at all times, WX needs a wicker slave or daily purple gems, wurt has to move turf around which other characters can just do with cobble, and woodies goose form is extremely niche. Wormwood’s blooming is easily the cheapest and most consistent character speed boost in the game. And speed is of extremely high value, especially for large hp bosses as a solo player!

 

50 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Bat wings have a great chance of dropping. Its only slow initially but speeds up significantly especially if you plan on staying in a world for a long time. If you walk to a few sink holes you're bound to get tons of bat wings for them. Also living trees dont revert to smaller sizes so there's no reason why you can't plant tons of them in advance. Bearger can net tons of living logs on his own too. Living logs are plentiful and the mad lab is yearly available. Others should be using them more often if they're not. You turn 1 dark sword into 2 and have an extra for another potion. Its a great late game farm thats really a no brainer.

How does this specific event based farm devalue wormwoods accessible crafting perk? Especially since wormwood benefits from bat wings too.

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55 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:

Wolfgang needs to stay at max hunger at all times,

Incorrect, after reaching a threshold, Wolfgang speed increases along with his hunger. He does not need to maintain his hunger at maximum capacity. Food is easily the one of the most common commodities in the game.

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WX needs a wicker slave or daily purple gems,

I explicitly mentioned that he has not been reworked. For all we know this will be easier to trigger and its speed boost is 50%.

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wurt has to move turf around which other characters can just do with cobble,

That... Is cheaper than cobblestone, a pitchfork... You do realise that?

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and woodies goose form is extremely niche.

Haha, no. Its not niche at all just ask any woodie player. Unlimited night vision, speed boost, can carry a back pack, and can walk on water, all for the price of one meaty stew+ idol. There is a plethora of scenerios where these are all usable. Run to the ruins, finding the lunar island and making trips to it, literally traveling any long distance.

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Wormwood’s blooming is easily the cheapest and most consistent character speed boost in the game. And speed is of extremely high value, especially for large hp bosses as a solo player!

Correct, one speed buff alone is not enough though. As I've mentioned many characters have speed buffs on top of other powerful perks. Id like Wormwood to also have that, because other than a speed buff what other powerful perk does he have? Wolfgang's speed boost is the most consistent speed buff, actually, and becomes the cheapest mid to late game. 

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How does this specific event based farm devalue wormwoods accessible crafting perk? Especially since wormwood benefits from bat wings too.

It doesn't devalue it at all you are misunderstanding. I have been a vocal advocate to the bat bat as Wormwood primary source of early to mid game healing. This whole thread has been derailed a bit as the main topic was on nightmare fuel. As a Wormwood main I actually use my perk to cycle my totally normal tree forest using the mad lab. 

Even if Wormwood would obtain only 5 dark petals per level 3 transformation that's, what, 1 night mare fuel every 4 days? I want to cement dark swords as Wormwood's go-to weapon by making them only slightly cheeper. That was the idea behind my whole post in the first place.

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27 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Incorrect, after reaching a threshold, Wolfgang speed increases along with his hunger. He does not need to maintain his hunger at maximum capacity. Food is easily the one of the most common commodities in the game.

 

At 250/300 hunger, he only has a 12.5% speed boost. And even if food is easy his 3x hunger drain at max pails in comparison to wormwoods 1.2x hunger drain.

32 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

That... Is cheaper than cobblestone, a pitchfork... You do realise that?

You can pitchfork cobble from the mosaic. And wormwoods speed boost stacks with it multiplicatively.

33 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Haha, no. Its not niche at all just ask any woodie player. Unlimited night vision, speed boost, can carry a back pack, and can walk on water, all for the price of one meaty stew+ idol. There is a plethora of scenerios where these are all usable. Run to the ruins, finding the lunar island and making trips to it, literally traveling any long distance.

We were talking about combat. Woodies goose form is no help then. I’d also like to point out it’s only a 40% speed boost. Wormwood with a walking cane is 50%, add on a magi and it’s 80%.

37 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Correct, one speed buff alone is not enough though. As I've mentioned many characters have speed buffs on top of other powerful perks. Id like Wormwood to also have that, because other than a speed buff what other powerful perk does he have? Wolfgang's speed boost is the most consistent speed buff, actually, and becomes the cheapest mid to late game. 

Wormwood doesn’t have other powerful perks? Pardon?

Wolfgangs speed boost is not consistent as you need max, sorry, incredibly high hunger to get a decent speed boost. Wormwood, on the other hand, has a flat speed boost at the cost of 1 kelp and 1 ash every once in a while. That is not more expensive.

43 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

It doesn't devalue it at all you are misunderstanding. I have been a vocal advocate to the bat bat as Wormwood primary source of early to mid game healing. This whole thread has been derailed a bit as the main topic was on nightmare fuel. As a Wormwood main I actually use my perk to cycle my totally normal tree forest using the mad lab. 

Even if Wormwood would obtain only 5 dark petals per level 3 transformation that's, what, 1 night mare fuel every 4 days? I want to cement dark swords as Wormwood's go-to weapon by making them only slightly cheeper. That was the idea behind my whole post in the first place.

Sorry about the derailment of this thread. Wormwood is already great at farming nightmare fuel the old fashioned way as he can stay or go insane whenever he wishes. Like, sure I wouldn’t say no to that but I don’t see how it’s needed and klei has already done an unprecedented rework with RWYS so they’re definitely not gonna do more changes.

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29 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:
 

At 250/300 hunger, he only has a 12.5% speed boost. And even if food is easy his 3x hunger drain at max pails in comparison to wormwoods 1.2x hunger drain.

The milk hat helps maintain his speed a bit and this combined with his max 6.6 damage potential. Wormwood pales in comparison, why even need darkswords at that point.

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You can pitchfork cobble from the mosaic. And wormwoods speed boost stacks with it multiplicatively.

You will never find as much natural cobble stone as there is an entire swamp biome. 

On top of this she has other great perks and her merms are great for bosses that dont have aoe's. Although Wurt has similar issues with great relevant perks just like Wormwood. 

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We were talking about combat. Woodies goose form is no help then. I’d also like to point out it’s only a 40% speed boost. Wormwood with a walking cane is 50%, add on a magi and it’s 80%.

We were talking about speed, something you brought up btw. Speed is utility from my point of view and a semi-great damage perk. The problem with speed is that it caps in the damage potential area. With a walking cane and magi I can get 2 extra max hits in a boss reliably. With his added speed boost I can MAYBE get one more. 

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Wormwood doesn’t have other powerful perks? Pardon?

Oh you mean the food he can farm for everyone else and gains little benefit from? Do you mean the niche crafts that have limited uses in limited scenerios? Or do you mean the living logs accessible to everyone? He has two great perks: Reliable Speed and great healing outside of battle. I can give you a whole list in how many useful ways Warlys perks can be utilized and don't get me started on Wendy. 

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Wolfgangs speed boost is not consistent as you need max, sorry, incredibly high hunger to get a decent speed boost. Wormwood, on the other hand, has a flat speed boost at the cost of 1 kelp and 1 ash every once in a while. That is not more expensive.

It is consistent enough. Just check the numerous speed runs online I shouldn't have to go in great detail in how plentiful it is. You forgot to mention the boat cost and the time it takes to get a sufficient amount of pearl's containers. Wolfgang can utilize it straight out the box and can maintain a moderate speed buff for days with juicy berries. Early game you're better off letting fish rot but that still takes time.

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Sorry about the derailment of this thread. Wormwood is already great at farming nightmare fuel the old fashioned way as he can stay or go insane whenever he wishes.

I want more. Mooooooooooore lol. I was farming nightmare creatures the old fashioned way when I realized, ugh, isn't there a better way? Who uses the darksword more than Wormwood? Who can maintain the sanity drain better than Wormwood? So lets make it easier for him.

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Like, sure I wouldn’t say no to that but I don’t see how it’s needed and klei has already done an unprecedented rework with RWYS so they’re definitely not gonna do more changes.

Oh, they'll do more changes alright, that I can assure you. They have been and I couldn't be more glad that they implement small changes all the time. I just have to keep coming up with ideas until I inspire a dev to give Wormwood some love. I imagine once he has more practical plant friends I can shut up about it, as that's the most likely path they'll take. Until then I am happy coming up with ideas that will never be implemented, but hope it gives someone out there that CAN do something about it, an idea. 

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24 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

rwys made wormwood easily one of the strongest characters in the game, he absolutely doesn't need a buff

Can you please elaborate on how he is the strongest? Other than the speed boost I have exhaustively tried to counter, how is he the best character in the game. And don't take this the wrong way, but I find it troubling coming from someone who uses a Wendy profile picture. Wendy is currently the most powerful character in the game.

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and any character can farm shadow splumonkeys with some walls, mini signs and a flingo so I don't really see a problem with that

Yes! Everyone can... Know what everyone cant do? Make catapults, have a 20% and 75% damage increase at any moment, have 2000hp tank that does damage and can be repaired instantly, have a sister than can kill dozens of mobs in seconds and have the second highest damage output in the game, have 3 different transformation all tailored for different scenerios. Not to mention to some of these characters it doesn't even stop there. 

But Wormwood has a 20% speed increase... Wooo.... Do you see the problem? At the very least, Id like for his crafts to be adjusted.

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19 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Can you please elaborate on how he is the strongest? Other than the speed boost I have exhaustively tried to counter, how is he the best character in the game. And don't take this the wrong way, but I find it troubling coming from someone who uses a Wendy profile picture. Wendy is currently the most powerful character in the game.

Yes! Everyone can... Know what everyone cant do? Make catapults, have a 20% and 75% damage increase at any moment, have 2000hp tank that does damage and can be repaired instantly, have a sister than can kill dozens of mobs in seconds and have the second highest damage output in the game, have 3 different transformation all tailored for different scenerios. Not to mention to some of these characters it doesn't even stop there. 

But Wormwood has a 20% speed increase... Wooo.... Do you see the problem? At the very least, Id like for his crafts to be adjusted.

a 20% speed increase with almost negligible cost is extremely powerful, in terms of who speeds up the game's progression (aka power) wormwood definitely outclassed wendy prior to year of the beefalo, also she was never the strongest character wth lol

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7 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

a 20% speed increase with almost negligible cost is extremely powerful,

I don't deny this, and as I have stated time and time again this is his one unique perk. One! 

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in terms of who speeds up the game's progression (aka power) wormwood definitely outclassed wendy prior to year of the beefalo,

You must be joking. Wendy can kill dragonfly in 8 minutes, she can face tank bee queen and fuel weaver all before beef were updated.

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also she was never the strongest character wth lol

Not before her re-work no. Now she can maintain over 200 dps on a beefalo at 0 up-keep. Maybe you don't know Wendy as well as you think you do.

And you still have as of yet to provide any evidence on how Wormwood is as overpowered as you claim.

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