TRDragony Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Or will there be improvements of the physics? Especially I am wondering if there will be improvements on the following two issues: -> Water doesn't flow like water, but more like viscous goo if travelling horizontally. Example: One tile has 1000kg of water, while 30 tiles to the right you have a gap and its dripping down there. It needs about 5 minutes until the water is gone. Expecation: A few seconds. -> Gas in tiles at a relatively high pressure does not expand to tiles containing gas at much lower pressure. Example: Zoom out at maximum range (without mods). Now lets say you have a base as big as your screen. The base has mesh tiles and gaps nearly everywhere for vertical air flow. Over the base is a chamber as big as another screen. It is filled with 5kg of Oxygen via high-pressure vents. Below the base is another chamber as big as a whole screen, which contains different gases at low pressure (~300g). One expects that the 5kg Oxygen atmosphere presses down into the base and compresses the gases at the bottom. In the game you can see a vertical pressure difference of around 100g per tile, even after 20 cycles. This just feels totally wrong. Expected pressure difference is maybe 10g per vertical tile and even thats far away from realism, thats my expectation from a gamer's view. I am not asking for a high-precision simulation, I just want expectations of people having a standard education being fulfilled! There are many more face-palming problems in the game but I don't want to upset people here, I want feedback. So, will (or are?) there be improvements to at least these core mechanics, or is the DLC just "more of the same"? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Liquid transfer is 0.25 the difference per tick (0.2 s) capped by max and min flows. Gas flow is 0.10 diff/tick unless breathable which is 0.12 diff/tick with no caps. The simulation is clearly not perfect. What would you propose instead? With all the caps put in place on liquid flow, specific to each liquid, the devs have clearly spent a bit of time testing various options. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/#findComment-1394062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRDragony Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Well, I am not involved and I don't know the internals of the game, but if a tick takes place every 0.2s, I would radically do this: The following just recalculates pressure of two adjacent tiles having the same gas: tile1 = (tile1 + tile2) / 2 tile2 = tile1 This should spread the pressure quite quickly without involving much math. I am not a scientist, I just want to make it feel right. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/#findComment-1394066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 4 hours ago, TRDragony said: tile1 = (tile1 + tile2) / 2 tile2 = tile1 This should spread the pressure quite quickly without involving much math. I am not a scientist, I just want to make it feel right. I know I go off topic, but let us have some fun with "simple" calculations: Let´s asume we have 9 tiles in a 3x3 grid. 8 tiles are empty and one contains our gas/liquid. => In which order would you do "your" recalculation ? Spoiler Even if you would just look at a one dimensional array of tiles, There a multiple issues attached: Let´s say we have tile[0] to tile[x], would you go: Now you equalize tile[0] and tile[1], but what next ? Equalize tile[1] and tile[2] => Starting with 8kg liquid in tile[0] we would end up with 4kg in tile[0], 2kg in tile[1], 1kg in tile[2] ... Equalize tile[0], tile[1] and tile[2] => The calculations are not feasible for larger arrays. [And it would still "feel" wrong if you look at how the liquid spreads] Do some even longer calculation ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/#findComment-1394129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinhPham Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Same "calculation" as above, but the coder way : The 9 tiles in 3x3 grid actually is an "array" of 9 tiles. Walk through the array every tick. For each "item" in the "array" we had to check 4 adjacent tiles and spread the gas/liquid. Flag the adjacent tiles that we just made change and ignore that tile for the rest of the tick's calculation. As you see it can only spread into adjacent tiles, if you want it to spread faster you had to "walk" through every tiles again in the same tick, or check more tiles around the tile you doing the calculation, which increase the calculation exponentially ... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/#findComment-1394145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniDeathStar Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Let's also remember they are on a small asteroid with weak gravity. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/#findComment-1394148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRDragony Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Yeah I bet with arrays and multi threading its much complexer than this. But lets not forget that its not our job to write ONI code. Since no one has replied to my question, I suppose there are no change in physics in the DLC. This makes me very sad. While the my brain is able to ignore the other flaws (even the horizontal-water-flow flaw), that pressure flaw has made me quit playing. :( I'm sorry, but thats just too much for me. It could have been a great game, but knowing that millibars convert to tons of pressure when talking about square meters, not even talking about bars, which just disintegrates* humans within milliseconds and I cant even pump fresh air through my 80 meter base despite having Bars this it just... just......... NO! nonono... just NO!!!!!!!!!!!! *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/#findComment-1394239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokitomi Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Dont mention burning physics... Game have only melting / freezing mechanics. But things can burn, decrease its mass, produce heat and gas. Also produce different subproducts. Looking forward, there is a place for chain reactions, exsplosions, decompressions (that thing kinda work already, okay), natural recources transformations (like, overpressure coal vein somehow to gain diamonds), natural metal alloys generation, gas merging (imagine little rework of electrolyzer with piped output, but instead we get reaction if oxygen and hydrogen can merge into water again).... And list can go and go further.... But, i glad we get at least this ^_^ Eh, at least some implementation of fire would be crazy... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/123669-are-there-any-improvements-of-the-physics-in-the-dlc/#findComment-1395161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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