Liquid deletion?

[Drizzledrei]

I had 10 kg/s of crude oil dropping into a pool of naphtha covered by a layer of petroleum.  I was expecting the crude oil to push the naphtha and petroleum up but instead it looks like the 10 kg of crude and 10 kg of naptha annihilated each other? 

[Nebbie]

Mass deletion that transfers heat? Hoo baby, that looks very exploitable. Incredibly stupid, but exploitable.

[mathmanican]

11 hours ago, Drizzledrei said:

I was expecting the crude oil to push the naphtha and petroleum up but instead it looks like the 10 kg of crude and 10 kg of naptha annihilated each other? 

This is currently very consistent behavior.  Materials try to merge into a tile next to them when liquid spawns on the tile. None of the surrounding tiles contain naphtha, so the spawning material and naphtha each delete the exact same amount of mass.  This is exactly what happens with solid flaking, when 5kg of liquid flakes off and cannot find a place to spawn. 

Adding more petro above does not fix the issue. The same thing happens here. 

The exact same matter deletion happens in the picture below.  The hydrogen is at 1000kg, and the chlorine and carbon dioxide started at 200kg.  I dripped (not beaded) 100kg of crude into the hole, and it annihilated 100kg of carbon dioxide. 

I modified the chlorine/CO2 example to match what you saw, and again got matter deletion. 

Remove the chlorine, as you don't need the extra layer, to get the exact same problem. Here I deleted 200kg of crude in a single tick, using 300kg of CO2 held into place by 1000kg of hydrogen.

Vacuum above the petro still results in matter deletion, as the naphtha cannot merge with another cell. It is irrelevant that the petro could push upwards.  The crude oil wants to spawn below the naphtha, but the naphtha cannot merge, so the two delete each other.  

But, a gas (that can merge with a neighboring cell) or vacuum above the naphtha is a win. The naphtha is allowed to merge into vacuum or push the gas aside, provided the gas can merge with another cell.  If the gas is a single blob, then you get @Zarquan's infinite liquid compression pitcher pump, or you get matter annihilation if you drop in extra materials. 

7 hours ago, Nebbie said:

Mass deletion that transfers heat?

No heat is transferred here from the crude to anything.  The heat transfer is coming from the petro.  Watch the animation right as the cursor crosses over the petro, and you'll see this. 

 

There was a time, long ago, when the matter deletion was only happening to the spawned in material. This resulted in tiny blobs of CO2, trapped in a hole, being able to delete massive amounts of a liquid.  Instead, now both materials are deleted. 

@Drizzledrei, You can fix your issue by putting a mesh tile directly under the vent.  This forces the liquid to spawn on the vent, and then bead downwards. Then liquids will swap places every tick, moving the petro upwards, and then the naptha upwards (getting what you wanted).  The problem here arises from the liquid "dripping" (not beading) down, and then spawning at the bottom of the fall (rather than at the vent). 

[Zarquan]

I have seen this.  When I was making my pitcher pump, I first tried to put in all the liquids at once and things went crazy.  So I put them in one at a time. 

I don't think this is actually a bug.  I think this is a compromise between the idea of everything leaving the pipe vanishing and completely replacing a tile because there was a single bad packet. 

I think it is a bad compromise. 

I think that if a droplet fails to reconstitute below, it should try moving up until there is space or the liquid vent.  If it hits the liquid vent, then I guess mass has to be deleted.

We could use this to delete massive amounts of heat through a waste product like liquid sulfur, but I feel this is one of those unfortunate consequences of a one element per tile system.  More of an existential problem with the system.  This is may be one of those very rare intended features that the use of could reasonably be considered an unfair exploit.  Especially since it is easily avoidable and likely doesn't affect too many people.

Plus, I hate deleting mass.  Give me all the stuff and I will infinitely compress it and have it on tap for the rest of time.

[Nebbie]

Maybe liquids should just always bead when they exit a vent?

[Zarquan]

9 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

Maybe liquids should just always bead when they exit a vent?

That would cause other problems.  Beads have properties we don't really want in all falling liquids, including forcing gases up and causing liquids of different types to go crazy.

[TripleM999]

21 minutes ago, Nebbie said:

Maybe liquids should just always bead when they exit a vent?

They will already interact with anything in between... liquids leaving a vent will first begin to interact on their impact point... both have their advantages and disadvantages... beaded liquids will thermally interact with anything on the way, even split, if conditions are right... falling liquids will try to "come into existence" first at their impact point, where they begin to interact.

[Nebbie]

On 8/5/2020 at 12:34 PM, Zarquan said:

That would cause other problems.  Beads have properties we don't really want in all falling liquids, including forcing gases up and causing liquids of different types to go crazy.

Really, that's kind of the behavior I expect from a falling liquid, to mess with other liquids and gases as it comes down, but of course it would be weird to see full blobs of water doing crazy stuff unlike a little droplet.

On 8/5/2020 at 12:49 PM, TripleM999 said:

They will already interact with anything in between... liquids leaving a vent will first begin to interact on their impact point... both have their advantages and disadvantages... beaded liquids will thermally interact with anything on the way, even split, if conditions are right... falling liquids will try to "come into existence" first at their impact point, where they begin to interact.

It feels like the game might be just a bit too all-or-nothing, and needs some kind of semi existence of a second element in a tile when liquids fall.

[Drizzledrei]

Thanks for the replies very informative! I guess I will not file a bug report seems like an intended though perhaps sub optimal behavior.  btw I tried using a mesh tile to make a bead and that does get rid of the deletion but the bead of crude will split and some of it will slide off the edge to the left which isn't quite what I wanted.

[bobe17]

Another liquid deletion example:  molten glass produced by the forge and dripping on the floor + room mostly filled with oxygen + a tile  of co2 or polluted oxygen on the floor under the vent = mysterious loss of mass in your glass production. Since then, i drip the molten glass in a pool of polluted water.

Now, i'm wondering about mass deletion in each scenario ^^