Mastermindx Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 So, I've got a new "But it worked before" situation. I'd like to understand what changed that would explain the new behavior. So here's one of my experimental volcano tamer. I know, not my best design, but it worked well for many cycle. The concept here is, I put as little supercoolant as needed for it to boil when the volcano erupt, but as much as needed for it to remains under 900 degrees to not overheat (and even cool down) the thermium machinery. It used to work pretty well. Volcano erupt, supercoolant boils, things slowly cool down and once it hits about 500 degrees, supercoolant pressure starts to drop as it's starting to condensate back to liquid form. It appears with the latest update that the supercoolant is turning back to liquid way faster than it used to. I checked it twice, cause the first time I encountered this bug again : So on the 2nd try, I can say there was 5KG+ supercoolant pressure in the room when the eruption happened... But later on, only a few mg of pretty hot supercoolant overheating the machinery remained. So, any insight as to what changed? The Rocky Bunker Cycle 1254.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, Mastermindx said: But later on, only a few mg of pretty hot supercoolant overheating the machinery remained. They altered gas flow somehow, and I see more wild fluctuation than before. For one, you no longer encounter temp swapping. The vertical swap with hot/cold tiles still happens, so my best guess is that the hot stuff is getting swapped upwards, and no longer being cooled by the temp swap bug where other tiles on the top had colder temps. So nothing else changed, other than that the hot gas at the top is NOT being miraculously cooled anymore. Possible fix: Put a temp shift plate behind the lower tiles of the conveyor loader. This will force gasses in those cells to exchange temp more rapidly, and cool stuff down at the top. That's my best guess. It explains the issue in my mind, but I could be completely wrong. The temp shift plate should fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermindx Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, mathmanican said: So nothing else changed, other than that the hot gas at the top is NOT being miraculously cooled anymore. My issue it exactly that it got magically cooled up. I was thinking maybe now there is some "reverse flaking" mechanics the makes gas partially condensate when it's in contact with a colder surface even though it is still hot. That would explain why the gas at the top slowly lost most of it's mass even though it stayed pretty hot. 5 minutes ago, mathmanican said: That's my best guess. It explains the issue in my mind, but I could be completely wrong. Yeah... I know better than to bet against you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Mastermindx said: I know better than to bet against you! I have made many mistakes, so feel free to bet against me on this one. I do think the more rapid cooling is interesting, but without the old game to actually compare it against, it may just be anecdotal gut feeling (which has lots of value for making hypothesis). I do not know of any reverse flaking mechanic, nor seen one. A perhaps more likely explanation would be that the update to flaking made it so that the supercoolant did not flake to gas without sapping away the right amount of energy (hence the energy loss). So the actual energy loss (more rapid cooling) is coming from the initial flaking of the super coolant, and then the overheating at the top is coming from the loss of the temp-swap bug. Again, not sure if this is the issue, but maybe this explanation is more plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermindx Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 Well, right now, I'm pretty sure the overheating at the top is caused by the debris in the conveyor loader... and it does so because the mass of gas got too low to "buffer" the temperature increase from the debris. The part I'm missing is why all the gas turned back to liquid that fast when there is 5 debris at over 1000C to heat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifegrow Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Got a picture of your conveyor overlay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermindx Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 Well... It's going straight to the left... Not much to see there. So, I tested it again with keeping the camera on the volcano the whole time, and it's not and "off screen" mechanics issue. It would appear my system is now cooling "too fast". Kindda wish Klei would let us install older build to test those things :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 33 minutes ago, Mastermindx said: It would appear my system is now cooling "too fast". Or not heating up as much. If your supercoolant is flaking (which it most likely is) then the new flaking mechanic now saps energy out appropriately. Before the change you could flake stuff with almost no energy loss. Watch it in debug and look for the tell tale 5kg chunks of flaked gas. If you see those then this is probably the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 If you think it is a reverse flaking bug, then set up an experiment to find out. Set up a vacuum room using Insulation tiles with a known quantity cold tiles up top (say, 1000kg granite at -200c). Then add a known amount of supercoolant at 5c above its boiling point and calculate how much heat it has. Start the simulation, watch the super coolant vaporize and fill the room, making contact with the cold tile up top. After the room is vacuum again, calculate the heat energy lost in the super coolant and the heat gained from the tiles. They should be equal quantities. If the super coolant is too cold, then you're right and there's an energy loss bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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