Thoughts on graft balance

[pacovf]

Ok, been meaning to do this for a while, but it's easier now that we have the compendium. I haven't unlocked all grafts since we got it, so I may miss some stuff. Sorry for the wall of text!

 

BATTLE
~Common~

Dark cowl: 3 combo at the beginning of the fight helps a lot to smooth out combo decks. Pretty solid.

First blood: 4 bleed at the beginning of a fight is ok, but not groundbreaking. Nice to have, but no big loss if you replace it for something better.

Nailed glove: I still have to try it, but seems ok to me. Makes it a lot safer to mass huge amounts of combo for some large finisher. Not many combo grafts are better than this, if any. Could be an uncommon graft.

Snap Talon: +1 damage on bleeding targets is ok. Bleed and Power don't have a whole lot of synergy together, which hurts what's otherwise a very acceptable graft. Likely to be replaced.

Buckshot: Amazing on any 1-on-1 fight if you have any source of wound. Most of the harder fights have more than one enemy, and it's not very useful there. Still, a lot of fights are 1-on-1, so this is still excellent.

Company band: +10 health on pets is nice, but not groundbreaking. Very likely to be replaced.

Recycler: some extra card draw is nice, but this is neither reliable nor exploitable. Likely to be replaced.

Red bandana: I've actually never taken this, but seems fine. Most of the harder fights will give you allies, so it will be useful when you actually need it. Makes pets even more desirable than they already are. Unfortunately, its power depends largely on your allies: it's great with smugglers, but ignorable with guards. Likely to be replaced, especially after the day 3 boss.

Rejig: turn 1 is when you are the most vulnerable, so the extra reliability is welcome. Works great with discard-for-benefit cards. Solid graft, but loses out to grafts with stronger synergies. 

~Uncommon~

Arterial scanner: effectively increases the damage from bleed by 50%, and makes cards like Hemorrhage, Barnacles, Leech that much stronger. Be careful not to accidentally kill surrendering enemies with their huge bleed stacks. Probably the best bleed graft, so very likely to keep it if you go that way.

Buster: extra defense and bleed on breaking defense. It's ok. Not all enemies put defenses up, and when they do, it's usually a large amount, and they are preparing to deal a lot of damage at the same time, so spending actions breaking that defense hardly seems worth it for what you gain. It's pretty good against fleads tho. Could be a common, IMHO.

Predictive brawling: one combo per turn is nice, but it takes three turns for this to give as much as Dark Cowl. I would rather have the certainty that I can use my combo spenders on turn 1 even if I draw them without combo producers. Honestly this could be a common graft, it's about as strong as Dark Cowl.

Serrated edge: double damage from wounds. Stacking wounds is not easy, but this always makes it worth it. It's excellent. Nothing more to add.

Skeletal suspension: defense from combo for free. Haven't had a chance to use it since the change, but looks ok to me. Stack enough combo and you become invincible. You have to build your deck around it though.

Body piercing: counter for every 3 defense. Great for enabling the abilities that do stuff on counter without having to go 100% into that type of deck. Good for counter decks too, although it might be overkill there (that may be because discard-counter decks are arguably too strong right now). Pretty solid overall.

Muscle bank: +3 cards per turn is amazing for any kind of deck, and downright broken for discard decks. The downside is barely a downside. Should be a rare or a boss graft, honestly.

Robustify: I don't think you can get this other than as a gift from Fssh? Should be a common, otherwise.

Shell: Defense and counter when outnumbered. Solid, although once again, it might be overkill for counter decks.

Wounding barbs: first attack each combat applies 2 wounds. It's ok. Kinda weak for an uncommon graft though. I've replaced it pretty much every time I got it.

~Rare~

Bloody Mess: +1 bleed to all enemies at the beginning of each turn. Hemophage loves this, and Gash is pretty happy with it too. I don't know how it interacts with Bloodbath, although I assume it's the same than with the Kradeshi whip (anybody tried that?). Aside from the combo with Hemophage, I am not entirely sure this is that much better than Arterial Scanner.

Dynamo: +1 power every time you shuffle. This is good, and if you build towards it, pretty amazing.

Feedback loop: first attack each combat deals double damage... this is really, really weak for a rare. This is barely better than a common graft. Was the plan to make it deal double damage for the first attack each *turn* instead of combat? Might be acceptable there, if you build the right deck.

Perpetual recycler: drawing every time you expend a card can get out of hand if you build towards it. Seems ok at rare.

~Boss~

Booster clamp: + action, but enemies don't surrender. By far the hardest downside of any of the +action grafts: enemies have higher effective health, you will end up with a bunch of people hating you, and you automatically fail any quest that requires you to beat someone without killing them. Still, +1 action is really good. 

Dangerous bulb: +action is definitely worth taking 3 damage per turn and a graft slot. The best of the +action grafts.

Quick charger: it's kind of like +action, only you don't get to choose one of the cards you play, and it fails altogether if it hits a 0-action card, or an item you don't want to spend. Still a good pick.

Calamity Jar: +Action, can't have pets. Automatic pick if you don't currently have a pet, since you may never get one anyway. Much harder choice if you do have one, probably not worth it if you've been building your deck around having a pet.

Quick strap: some cards have two upgrades that behave very differently, and some cards have one upgrade that is vastly better than the other (eg. barnacle). It's a very risky pick on day 1, but acceptable on day 2 if your core cards are upgraded already.

Illicit shifter: upgrade 3 random cards. As is, this should not be a boss graft. It needs to be reworked, or downgraded to uncommon.

 

NEGOTIATION
~Common~

Cerebral stimulants: +1 card per turn is good. Really good. This should be an uncommon.

Cludger: steal up to 4 composure is useful against anything that isn't a Spree, and amazing against labourers and smugglers. Doesn't work very well with Doubt, but that's hardly a problem. I don't think I've ever gotten this replaced. Could be an uncommon with no problem.

Shrieker: 1 damage against all arguments is ok. Would be better if it was easier to incept vulnerability, but right now the only source of that is Quick Thinking (and you don't always get it). Lost some usefulness when Haggling got changed, it was reasonably good there. Likely to be replaced.

~Uncommon~

Disruptive glanworm: one dominance at the beginning of combat is... just ok. It could be downgraded to a common with no problem.

Frontal goad: extra resolve on new arguments is actually pretty nice, especially for low composure arguments like influence or tactical mind. Doesn't really synergize with anything, but it's a solid graft. Somewhat more likely to be replaced in a Hostility deck.

Keenskin: 2 composure on destroying an argument by a card. It's just weak. Very likely to be replaced. Should be downgraded to common.

Luminjectors: +1 resolve to a random argument at the beginning of each turn. Can this affect your core resolve? It's just barely ok if yes, otherwise it's just really, really weak. Could be a common graft.

Midbrain padding. +1 composure for all arguments every turn. Decent. Still, fairly likely to be replaced.

Mind spool: +3 cards per turn is still crazy in negotiations, even if less so than in battles. Should be a rare or a boss graft.

~Rare~

Brain spur: first card every turn damages an extra random target. Solid, though needs some support to shine.

Impulse Jack: add a 0-cost card to your starting hand. Not sure what to say, doesn't seem very powerful unless you have a specific combo in mind. Otherwise, cerebral stimulant is plain better, since that one keeps drawing extra cards past the first turn.

Pons Mite: Increase minimum damage of all cards by 1. Pretty much useless in Diplomacy decks, somewhat ok in Hostile decks. Not sure it's strong enough for a Rare, to be honest, unless I am missing something.

~Boss~

Coactive Orbslug: 2 damage to a random target on influence gain. Not sure if it's as good as the action grafts, but it's still strong enough. Can get pretty crazy with the right support.

Contractor: 1 damage to all arguments on dominance gain. Dominance is harder to get than influence, although 1 damage to all targets is arguably better than 2 damage to one random target. It's ok.

Distributed processing: drawing an extra card when drawing a status card is deceptively powerful. Works great when you go the murderer route because of all the reputation cards you will be getting, although that pushes you towards a Hostility deck. Also helps a lot against Merchants, which are some of the hardest people to negotiate against. It's good.

Interior Drill: everything I said for the Quick charger applies here, athough items are more rare, and 0-cost cards are also rare outside Influence decks. One of the better choices for a boss graft.

Roller Drum: eeeeh. Automatic pick if you go Hostile, automatic pass if you go Influence. Considering the number of things that push you towards Hostility (Intimidation attemps, Provocations, Reputation cards, the labourer argument that reduces influence damage by 1), this feels wholly unnecessary.

Three fingers: +action, but two people hate you. Once you provoke and kill those people, this effectively has no downside. It's strong.

Chemical Regulator: upgrade 3 cards. Everything I said about the Illicit Shifter applies here. Should be an uncommon graft.

 

CONCLUSION

The general feel I get is that common grafts are meant to offer weak bonuses that you won't miss if you replace them, uncommon grafts are the bread-and-butter of your build, boss grafts are mainly for the +action, and rare grafts offer sizeable bonuses for specific builds. There's only some grafts that don't have the rarity that corresponds to their power (or viceversa), mostly among negotiation grafts.

However, if rare grafts are meant to be strong rewards for specific builds, this is a bit of a problem. The few times I see a rare graft, it's one offer from Plokka on day 4, and from beating a hard quest on day 4. By then, my deck is already made, and I can't really change course anymore. Not to mention that rare grafts are prohibitively expensive to buy from Plokka (her grafts could use a ~33% decrease in price IMHO, players have a lot less money since the Haggle change). Would be nice to have access to rare grafts earlier than that.

[s5unaMe]

Your analytics is really solid so there is nothing to add or disagree with

 

[Hraklea]

The one that gives you defense on combo points is way too strong imo. And I think the "no pet" extra action is better than the 3 damage one.

Other than that, I probably agree with everything.

[pacovf]

You're probably right about Calamity Jar being better than Dangerous Bulb (I wrote that before remembering Calamity Jar was in the game). I just wouldn't take it if I currently had a pet. The ranking between those two might change if pets are ever made more frequent / reliable, but that's not the case right now. You can still use the item pets (e.g. vroc whistle), even with the Jar.

[TheCoolestFool]

missing bloody mess rare graft: apply 1 bleed to all enemies at start of turn. Good in large enemy fights if you have some healing on bleed synergy going on.

Missing Hemophage rare graft: Whenever you apply bleed restore 1 health. Its a good graft for bleed decks obviously.

Dark cowl,first blood,snap talon,company band,red bandana and rejig i think these grafts suck. Only grab them if im offered a combination of them lol. I actually like recycler a lot. I tend to grab it often or at least over the above mentioned. Its fine if common grafts suck though.

 

 

[pacovf]

I think you underestimate Dark cowl. It’s a solid graft for combo decks, especially at common rarity.

Also, now my analysis is outdated.

[TheCoolestFool]

Just a bit out dated now lmao. At least some of your suggestions came to be. As for dark cowl i still dont think its good but i dont think any common graft is good. Nailed glove is the exception. Buster being common now might be nice too with all the early low armor stuff.

Booster clamp seems to terrible should instead increase morale of all enemies by x per turn or something depending on what the enemy is. Then battles will last longer but you dont have to slaughter everything.

[pacovf]

I mean, +1 action is +1 action. If it’s the only one offered, I will probably take it. The only thing I regret about it is that some quests become impossible (my idea for fixing that was to only prevent surrenders for the first 4 turns, which is very similar to your idea). However, killing people is not thaaat bad now that we can provoke people. Still, it’s true that the other +action grafts are much milder.

Just for the fun of it, here are ideas for similarly harsh drawbacks for the other grafts:

Quick Strap: one less option when upgrading, and randomise all the upgrades you’ve already done.

Calamity Jar: no pets, increase price and target resolve when trying to hire people

Dangerous bulb: lose 3 health at the end of each turn (i.e ignore defense)

Three fingers: 2 people hate you. You can’t provoke people any more.

War Drum: Diplomacy and Hostile cards deal 50% less damage on alternating turns.

 

...idea for prestige 8 difficulty, Klei? Harsher boss graft penalties

[TheCoolestFool]

Counter band: whenever you block all damage from an attack, gain 2 combo. Is one of the new ones.

I just find even though you have 1 more action the graft makes fights longer if your deck is just basic cards or has nothing strong in it yet. Just played with the new roller drum and made a hostile deck with it since day 1 and it was still very powerful so thats cool. Glad it doesnt kill hostile decks.

Heres the deck. Got veiled anger on day 4 and the deck would go infinite if interior drill hit the right card.

[pacovf]

Cloister: +2 damage while you have defense

Clot hammer: bleed deals 2 more damage (I think? the wording is a bit awkward)

Almost all of the new grafts are Rare, according to the compendium

[s5unaMe]

Clot hammer: 2 extra damage on targets with bleed?

[Hraklea]

On 20/09/2019 at 12:31 AM, pacovf said:

However, killing people is not thaaat bad now that we can provoke people.

Killing people is a good thing often. Provoking is pretty easy, the battle itself isn't that hard, and you get the card/xp from the fight.

[pacovf]

Yeah, the only two issues are that the person that hates you after you murder someone might have had a good relationship with you before, so you lose the social boon, and that it may take forever to find the person that hates you. If it weren't for those facts, I would be murdering everyone left and right.

[s5unaMe]

Has anyone try to go for full killing machine and avoid negotiation as much as possible? I've tryied it once but made several stupid mistakes and have been crushed by Drusk boss (my first Drusk after 20+ walkthrough ). Also haven't got a Distributed processing to do atleast something with negotiation.

[pacovf]

I've tried once, with a discard-counter deck. The highlight was going to the harbour by myself at the end of D3, killing everyone enforcing the quarantine (Oolo didn't like that), then running past the clerk and the smuggler to kill the Drusk (pre-nerfs), still by myself. Good times  This was also before the changes to Social Banes and the introduction of provocations, though.

[RageLeague]

11 hours ago, s5unaMe said:

Has anyone try to go for full killing machine and avoid negotiation as much as possible? I've tryied it once but made several stupid mistakes and have been crushed by Drusk boss (my first Drusk after 20+ walkthrough ). Also haven't got a Distributed processing to do atleast something with negotiation.

I tried it with a defence counter deck. All my negotiations are provoking people that hate me. Even still there are 12 people that hate me at the end of the game. Good thing I bribed some admiralty guard for sparring otherwise I'm screwed with all the bully debuff.

One of the worst thing that happened in the game is that I made a feud citizenry laborer hate me because I captured him to the admiralty now every people in the feud citizenry hate me. If I attack any of them they instantly hate me and I can't effectively drink with the sprees because the bartender dislikes me.

[pacovf]

Ok, some of the grafts that I am missing in my original post are:

Uncommon:

Unstable Augmentation: Gain 4 temporary power on your 2nd, 4th or 6th turn once per battle (chosen randomly)

Rare:

Cloister: Deal 2 bonus damage while you have any defense.

Clot hammer: Deal 2 bonus damage to targets affected by bleed. (compare Snap talon: your attacks deal 2 bonus damage to targets with bleed. Still not sure what the difference is) Attacking targets affected by bleed grants 2 defense

Counter band: Whenever you block all damage from an attack, gain 2 combo.

Flourish: Whenever you spend all your combo, gain 5 defense.

Fragmenter: Whenever you discard a card, apply 1 wound to a random enemy

Heartless: If you are under 25% health, all attacks inflict 2 wound

Hemophage: Whenever you apply bleed, restore 1 health. (same name as the card with the same effect)

Bottom Edge: All attacks gain +1 to minimum damage, up to their maximum damage

 

Only missing 1 graft now. Will try to update my original post with the new info when I get that. Anyone has come across the last one?