Temperature handling is very unrealistic

[TwoThe]

I recently discovered ONI and playing it like mad right now. I personally love how all those gas calculations are very realistic, how you can actually apply physical knowledge in this game to gain benefits. Until I discovered how temperature is handled in this game.

First of all: my sandstone pipes break in an ice biome, even though they carry no water. Under no circumstances will Sandstone fall apart just because it is cold. The only reason non-fluids break when they are cold is because either fluids inside that material expand and break it, or if the temperature is so rapid, that the expansion and/or contraction cause the material to break down.

A proper temperature handling in this game would make the pipe take damage if water is cooled below freezing point, or if super-cooled pipes receive (relatively) very hot fluids.

Secondly: the radiator I tried to use to transfer heat from the water to the surrounding ice biome broke the very instant I tried to use it, because... it got too hot. From water with a temperature of 26°C. This is physically impossible as the device cannot transfer more heat that it's own heat capacity. Especially not a device with the single purpose of transferring heat, because the designers would think of it becoming hot. Also the device had plenty of capacity to transfer heat to the ice-cold surroundings, but never did so. 

It would be great if this game would handle temperatures (more) physically correct as that seriously breaks the immersion.

[Gwido]

2 hours ago, TwoThe said:

A proper temperature handling in this game would make the pipe take damage if water is cooled below freezing point, or if super-cooled pipes receive (relatively) very hot fluids.

It's already how it's managed.

But in addition, the frozen liquid fall on the ground, where it occasionaly freeze if the temperature is low enough.

 

So, if your liquid pipe broke, it's because the liquid inside reach the freezing temperature.

 

For your second point, what building are you talking about ? Aquatuner ?

If it's the case, this building heat very quickly, and you have to use proper material to build it. Steel or thermium are the best.

[Nightinggale]

3 hours ago, TwoThe said:

my sandstone pipes break in an ice biome, even though they carry no water.

I just tested this ingame and I got the expected result: no damage to empty pipes even when exposed to extreme cold environments. Pipes are however quickly damaged if ice forms in them. Maybe you had ice in your pipes, they broke and now the ice is in your ice biome. Broken pipes leak the contents.

3 hours ago, TwoThe said:

the radiator I tried to use to transfer heat from the water to the surrounding ice biome broke the very instant I tried to use it, because... it got too hot. From water with a temperature of 26°C. 

The pipe should be just fine as long as the water inside the pipe stays between 0 and 100 C. Radiant pipes exchange temperature very quickly and it's possible that one cell has better cooling than the previous cells, meaning ice broke the pipe even if the water was 26 C before reaching that point.

If this doesn't explain what happened, then we will need a screenshot because we are unsure of what you have done. We don't fully get your setup based on your description.

[Sasza22]

5 hours ago, TwoThe said:

First of all: my sandstone pipes break in an ice biome, even though they carry no water.

This is impossible. There must have been water in them when they broke. You probably missed it. Keep in mind that when water freezes in the pipe it takes damage (breaks eventually) but the ice is dropped on the ground since solids can`t be inside liquid pipes.

5 hours ago, TwoThe said:

Secondly: the radiator I tried to use to transfer heat from the water to the surrounding ice biome broke the very instant I tried to use it, because... it got too hot.

The aquatuner is tricky to use. The thing heats up extremely fast. It`s beacause it removes 14<sup>o</sup>C from 10kg of water per second. That`s an insane amount of energy transferred (given the heat capacity of water). None of this energy is lost it all heats up the machine. You can`t run it in air or it will break. You need to surround it with water or oil that can absorb the heat fast enough.

 

5 hours ago, TwoThe said:

It would be great if this game would handle temperatures (more) physically correct as that seriously breaks the immersion.

It`s funny but your examples are actually physically correct. Maybe other than the aquatuner being 100% effective with almost no excess heat created. Meanwhile things like the water sieve exist that outputs 40^oC no matter the input temperature so you can feed it 99^oC polluted water and cool it at minimal cost.

[TwoThe]

On 24.6.2019 at 11:46 PM, Sasza22 said:

This is impossible. There must have been water in them when they broke. You probably missed it. Keep in mind that when water freezes in the pipe it takes damage (breaks eventually) but the ice is dropped on the ground since solids can`t be inside liquid pipes.

The pipes were not even connected to a water source just yet, as I was still building them. I started placing them in the ice biome to come up with some cooling system, but they broke down as fast as I placed them till I eventually gave up. Later I placed those pipes made from gold again and surprisingly this time they did not break.

A while later I had the full system running, however the cooling wasn't very effective, as the first few pipe sections outside the cold area already heated the water in the pipe back up from 14° to 23°. However when the whole system clogged up eventually the water inside the pipe froze to -7° and yet there was neither damage to the pipe nor did the water stop flowing when I fixed the clogging.

[Sasza22]

1 hour ago, TwoThe said:

they broke down as fast as I placed them

I never seen that happening. Pretty weird. Guess i need to do some testing.

1 hour ago, TwoThe said:

A while later I had the full system running, however the cooling wasn't very effective, as the first few pipe sections outside the cold area already heated the water in the pipe back up from 14° to 23°.

To prevent that you can build insulated pipes outside the cold areas and radiant inside. Also the heat transfer is much faster if the pipe is surrounded by water.

1 hour ago, TwoThe said:

the water inside the pipe froze to -7° and yet there was neither damage to the pipe nor did the water stop flowing when I fixed the clogging.

Was it polluted water by any chance? It doesn`t freeze until around -20^oC iirc unlike clean water.

[TwoThe]

20 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Was it polluted water by any chance? It doesn`t freeze until around -20^oC iirc unlike clean water.

No only clean water. I actually had a cleaning system attached to that pipe section at some point for some other reason, so polluted water couldn't possible be in that system at all.

[Sasza22]

Water should freeze at -7^o normally. Actually are you sure it was the water temperature not the pipe? For me it always breaks pipes on phase change (actually it does damage, breaks after 4 or 5 packets freeze). Damage shows as a red bar on the pipes. Only scenario when it won`t freeze is when it`s below 100g (which is not possible when the pipe is clogged).

There`s a lot of weird things happening in your game. Anyway it seems like you fixed most of the problems. If something weird happens again make a screenshot so we can see what caused it. Maybe you found a rare bug the devs aren`t aware of.

[I_Link_I]

On 24.6.2019 at 9:18 PM, Gwido said:

 

 

For your second point, what building are you talking about ? Aquatuner ?

If it's the case, this building heat very quickly, and you have to use proper material to build it. Steel or thermium are the best.

Put your aquatuner in liquid,this way it wohnt overheat as quickly