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Electric and thermal power conversion analysis


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1 hour ago, Altaric said:

This is the 85° limit makes the incredibly small power cost not exploitable with the turbine.

...unless you use an exploit, in which case it becomes very much exploitable with the turbine.

Not to the point it used to be, but still.

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5 hours ago, goatt said:

You mentioned ignoring input output, but you still included the heat dispatched in coolant. I don't have problem understanding that, but I did find it confusing.

It seems to me that the metal refinery is different enough from other buildings to justify including the heat transferred to the coolant, but I see what you mean. I think most other industrial buildings have output temperatures close enough to room temperature that it doesn’t make much difference, but I could be wrong. Polymer press outputs steam that I could include in the calculations, which I think would give around 5 kDTU/s more (if cooling steam to 95 C through a turbine). Glass forge could potentially output a lot of heat for its power rating, but I haven’t checked how long it takes to process one batch of glass.

5 hours ago, goatt said:

My opinion, 1. while DTU / J is an interesting way to look at thermal emission, DTU / s will be the decisive factor. A light bulb of 10 W will produce less heat than a oxygen diffuser (even tho a cluster of bulbs will produce more)

Yeah, DTU/J is irrelevant if you don’t also look at your power consumption. Still, I find it interesting to see that most buildings have similar conversion ratings, so you can estimate where you need cooling just by checking where is your power consumption.

The analysis also hopefully shows which buildings are outliers. Don’t spam ceiling lights if you are worried about your base heating up, for example.

5 hours ago, goatt said:

2. I think diversity is important. Different heating devices having different heat output (rate) as well as working condition restriction add a lot more fun and space for creativity than having all devices with similar electricity to heat conversion rate, in which case, all you need to do to get a certain level of heat production is to just choose a power level.

I see what you mean. Ultimately it’s a matter of opinion, but I would prefer if all heating buildings worked at similar efficiencies, with the working conditions being what distinguishes them.

 

9 hours ago, M.C. said:

Super coolant aqua tuner is slightly power-negative. IIRC only a pulsed (read: glitched) tepidizer is power-positive.

My numbers assumed you could recover the heat dissipated by the turbine for free, which now that I think about it, is not very reasonable. Considering the cost of recovering heat, I think you are right, a super-coolant aquatuner running a turbine should still be power-negative, if barely.

 

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3 hours ago, Gus Smedstad said:

By "just because" I mean that there's no rational explanation as to why it has a 85 C limit beyond the developers arbitrarily deciding that it can't get hotter than that. You keep skipping over that part, even though that's the specific objection I was raising before. "Working as intended" was never part of my concern one way or the other.

And you are missing my point. The tepidizer is *NOT* meant to boil. Period. End of discussion. 

With the exception that it heats water externally instead of internally, it is functionally identical to the water heaters in almost every household in the industrialized world. 

If this is an arbitrary and irrational decision to you then I've got some bad news for you about water sieves, wheezeworts, oil refineries, natural gas generators, pufts, morbs, petroleum generators, gulp fish, metal refineries, steam turbines, glass refineries, rockets, hydrogen generators, aquatuners, molten slicksters, etc. Basically? The entire game. 

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...Can we not drift towards a “fix physics plz” kind of discussion, please? I would rather not get the thread locked :)

If you feel like you are getting worked up over the working temperature range of the tepidizer, please take a step back and come back to discuss it later. And if you don’t seem to be able to convince the other person, just agree to disagree. People in this forum have different opinions on how important real life physics should be in ONI, and that argument tends to... heat up (haha) quickly.

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34 minutes ago, pacovf said:

My numbers assumed you could recover the heat dissipated by the turbine for free, which now that I think about it, is not very reasonable. Considering the cost of recovering heat, I think you are right, a super-coolant aquatuner running a turbine should still be power-negative, if barely.

You could, in theory, recover that heat with another aqua tuner to run a second turbine... and then recover heat of the second turbine with another aqua tuner. And so on. It's aqua tuners all the way down!

I am fine with running a 100% uptime aqua tuner consuming 60W power, to be honest. Perpetual motion machines never felt right to me and I avoided them even when I could build them.

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48 minutes ago, pacovf said:

It seems to me that the metal refinery is different enough from other buildings to justify including the heat transferred to the coolant

I know why you went there and I know why this can be useful. But another different thing about steel refinery is the requirement of providing recipe materials. This is not solely dependent on electricity like other buildings. To provide a good amount of discontinuous heating (because supplying building and refilling coolant will take a little bit of time), unlimited raw metal ores will needed. And similar to icedrofan, manual operation is also required. I know my opinion is different from yours. But I just want to show them.

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I've reorganized the OP a bit, and added an extra section on what ONI balance would look like if we tried to enforce some extra real life physics into it. Main conclusion is that things would get toasty :p 

EDIT: I am also extremely happy that I *finally* managed to figure out why you can use an aquatuner with a turbine as a cooling box in ONI, which is obviously impossible in real life. It’s because in ONI, the efficiency of the aquatuner is decoupled from that of the turbine, and also does not produce heat for the electric power it consumes. I can’t tell you how *much* this has been bothering me since the new turbine was announced.

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