Starter Pack(Think Default+, only more mellow)

[Silentdarkness1]

NOW AVAILABLE FOR ONLY NINE NINETY NINE US DOLLARS OVER 9000 DOLLARS NO MONEY DOWN

 

Suggesting that Klei add the option to give new players certain supplies when they start. Maybe not call it Starter Pack, i'm sure they could come up with a much better name. Up to 5 different items, which can be customized by the player to some extent. Off by default, but can be turned on or off when a server is being made or resumed.

[Ciirulean]

What would this add to the game?

 

The most fun part of DST is gathering materials with your friends and then making stuff with what you've gathered.

Why make that part shorter?

[Silentdarkness1]

I've had problems in default worlds, and it looks like i'm not the only one, where i'm literally running around like a headless chicken, unable to find any FLINT.

 

Seriously. And this is on freshly spawned worlds, too. Not ones that have already had several players in it for a while. Also, it could be used by a server owner to mitigate the eventual, inevitable depletion of certain unreplenishable resources once they're gone(gears, rocks, FLINT, so on so forth).

 

Also, some people want to set up a proper PvP arena. This would certainly make it a lot easier.(bleh, pvp)

[Desblat]

Really good idea for endless/pvp servers, because if there are 5+ players you can die at the thirst days cause no flints=>no logs=>no firepit...

[Silentdarkness1]

Firepit? Nevermind that. How about a fireplace at all?

[porps]

nice idea... the major one which most of us have probably ran into by now is no flint... i tried putting flint on more to help avoid the problem, but it doesnt really help too much... eventually theres no flint in the start area, even if theres plenty in other biomes.

The other problem i have ran into is people joining my server during winter... I did my best to go and take heatstones to them as they arrived, but that got quite annoying for me, and extremely frustrating if they just die anyway within a day or 2 then leave the server.. as happened quite a bit.

 

(i play endless servers btw)

[daviejohnson]

I like the idea but I think that it should be up to the host what those items are, also something to think about is that maybe there should be an option to say that the players have to be able to create/collect the items beforehand, it could be interesting.

[DaMich]

I think that the issue with no flint in the starting areas(or even food) is a real one, but i don't think that a starter kit is the right solution.
It doesn't feel right to me that you would start in such a world with a starter kit. How about spawning some flint randomly as soon as someone joins in the biome around the portal, basically reseting the starting area by a bit, and giving the player who joins late a comparable experience to the early joiner.

 

 

[shigad]

I think that the issue with no flint in the starting areas(or even food) is a real one, but i don't think that a starter kit is the right solution.

It doesn't feel right to me that you would start in such a world with a starter kit. How about spawning some flint randomly as soon as someone joins in the biome around the portal, basically reseting the starting area by a bit, and giving the player who joins late a comparable experience to the early joiner.

you read my thoughts

[Silentdarkness1]

I think that the issue with no flint in the starting areas(or even food) is a real one, but i don't think that a starter kit is the right solution.

It doesn't feel right to me that you would start in such a world with a starter kit. How about spawning some flint randomly as soon as someone joins in the biome around the portal, basically reseting the starting area by a bit, and giving the player who joins late a comparable experience to the early joiner.

That's a bit obtrusive, isn't it? Also, it tends to screw with any structures built around the starting idea. This is one of those ideas that sounds nice in theory, but will fail in execution. Also, this encourages greedy players in a public server to try and set up camp near the start area and scoop up all the flint they can get, leaving the new player to struggle for enough.

 

And sadly, such people will exist. This idea cripples the balance for other players. At least, as far as non-pvp servers are concerned. I can't support this idea at all. This makes it easy for well-doing players to make things even harder for those who just joined. It's not just flint that becomes a problem. Let's take some real bad examples, like, say, a world full of griefers who seem to like to burn picked grass and saplings. A new player who joins won't even be able to get the materials for a torch, and has to either find a base camp, or become Charlie's newest chew toy(unless they play as Willow, I suppose).

 

With what i'm suggesting, that problem won't be so profound and in your face. Keeping in mind that, at the end of the day, the server host has ultimate control over what's in it. Sure, sure, a server owner could roll back the griefing, but there's really only so many times he or she can do that before it gets tiring. This is a lot more customizable, less exploitable method.

[RalphKastro]

Really good idea for endless/pvp servers, because if there are 5+ players you can die at the thirst days cause no flints=>no logs=>no firepit...

ever heard of torches?

Anyway, this is a good idea for those servers that stay open forever, specially with people's tendency to pick all the grass and twigs in an explorable area in winter, making survival impossible. but I think it should be customisable outside of the "world settings" menu, as it would only be necessary in most cases after day 20.

[DaMich]

That's a bit obtrusive, isn't it? Also, it tends to screw with any structures built around the starting idea. This is one of those ideas that sounds nice in theory, but will fail in execution. Also, this encourages greedy players in a public server to try and set up camp near the start area and scoop up all the flint they can get, leaving the new player to struggle for enough.

 

And sadly, such people will exist. This idea cripples the balance for other players. At least, as far as non-pvp servers are concerned. I can't support this idea at all. This makes it easy for well-doing players to make things even harder for those who just joined. It's not just flint that becomes a problem. Let's take some real bad examples, like, say, a world full of griefers who seem to like to burn picked grass and saplings. A new player who joins won't even be able to get the materials for a torch, and has to either find a base camp, or become Charlie's newest chew toy(unless they play as Willow, I suppose).

 

With what i'm suggesting, that problem won't be so profound and in your face. Keeping in mind that, at the end of the day, the server host has ultimate control over what's in it. Sure, sure, a server owner could roll back the griefing, but there's really only so many times he or she can do that before it gets tiring. This is a lot more customizable, less exploitable method.

 

Have you played Don't Starve Together yet? Because if i can get just one or two flint i am good to go. Meaning i don't need to camp flint because it is not that valuable of a resource that i would choose my base placement over it.

Secondly, considering griefing, this problem is already existing. The suggestion doesn't fix it, but it also doesn't enhace it. I really cannot see, where this idea would handle or influence griefing any different than the current state.

And lastly, you can avoid spawning it on structures or near other players.

I still think it is a better idea than a starting kit, since it doesn't leave you helpless in the starting area, and is not creating the feeling that the game is holding your hand.

What i really get from your post, is that you are angry or afraid on griefing. And i honestly can understand you, but this suggestion is not trying to fix griefers, it just allows new players to get out of the starting zone with a bit more than a torch.

[RalphKastro]

Have you played Don't Starve Together yet? Because if i can get just one or two flint i am good to go. Meaning i don't need to camp flint because it is not that valuable of a resource that i would choose my base placement over it.

Secondly, considering griefing, this problem is already existing. The suggestion doesn't fix it, but it also doesn't enhace it. I really cannot see, where this idea would handle or influence griefing any different than the current state.

And lastly, you can avoid spawning it on structures or near other players.

I still think it is a better idea than a starting kit, since it doesn't leave you helpless in the starting area, and is not creating the feeling that the game is holding your hand.

What i really get from your post, is that you are angry or afraid on griefing. And i honestly can understand you, but this suggestion is not trying to fix griefers, it just allows new players to get out of the starting zone with a bit more than a torch.

so, what you're suggesting is that flint magically plops into existence? like you're just waltzing around and then *plop*, "oh look, some flint popped out of nowhere". Considering how Klei, even though they have made some bad decisions(OLD FREAKING BELL), never added something more inconsistent than Hounds appearing outside of your screen(and that's a bit consistent, if you think about it.)

Although I must say that the issue is not as big as it might seem(just make a torch and go looking for a meteor site. You'll find flint in no time), the Starter Pack(which is a name I don't like...) idea seems much more appropriate, and might create a better experience to new players.

[DaMich]

so, what you're suggesting is that flint magically plops into existence? like you're just waltzing around and then *plop*, "oh look, some flint popped out of nowhere". Considering how Klei, even though they have made some bad decisions(OLD FREAKING BELL), never added something more inconsistent than Hounds appearing outside of your screen(and that's a bit consistent, if you think about it.)

Although I must say that the issue is not as big as it might seem(just make a torch and go looking for a meteor site. You'll find flint in no time), the Starter Pack(which is a name I don't like...) idea seems much more appropriate, and might create a better experience to new players.

 

No exactly not. If you would have read my post, you would know that you would never be able to see flint spawning. And since the joining player is the one who is most likely to find it, he will not even notice the appearance of the flint since he did not see the area before the flint was spawning there. The only thing that is inconsistent is, that if another player findes the flint, he found a flint that was not there before, considering that he already revealed that spot(granted, it is very likely that it is revealed due to it being in the starting area). Which is a sacrifice i would be willing to make. (Despite me not considering it a sacrifice).

Also i just want to make clear that i don't feel the need for this. I normally know what i am doing and i also get along without flint in the starting area. But i am an experienced player and not a newbie. And you can't just give a new player a torch and expect him to survive for long without any tools.

 

Lastly i really think that there will never be a starter pack, because it is not fitting in the story and after watching the latest dev-casts, i had the impression that story and cohesiveness is very important for Klei at least more important than holding the hand of new players. But a spawn of 2-5 elements in the starting biome is not really game breaking, neither is it camp worthy, nor is it cutting in the story in a logical way, since the spawn is hidden from the player, making it like the flint has always been there and was just overlooked.

 

[Silentdarkness1]

I've been talking with Peter, and he seems to like the idea.

 

 

Have you played Don't Starve Together yet? Because if i can get just one or two flint i am good to go. Meaning i don't need to camp flint because it is not that valuable of a resource that i would choose my base placement over it.
Secondly, considering griefing, this problem is already existing. The suggestion doesn't fix it, but it also doesn't enhace it. I really cannot see, where this idea would handle or influence griefing any different than the current state.
And lastly, you can avoid spawning it on structures or near other players.

I still think it is a better idea than a starting kit, since it doesn't leave you helpless in the starting area, and is not creating the feeling that the game is holding your hand.

What i really get from your post, is that you are angry or afraid on griefing. And i honestly can understand you, but this suggestion is not trying to fix griefers, it just allows new players to get out of the starting zone with a bit more than a torch.

 

Have you played Don't Starve singleplayer?

 

I've had many a world where I was scraping around to get just enough flint. And this is singleplayer! SINGLEPLAYER! Now, imagine scraping to do this, with three or four other players running around doing the same thing. Doomed.

 

It's not the game that "holds the player's hand". It's the server host. It can be off by default. Besides, what if someone wants to make a server for doing fun stuff? Being able to quiet down some of the more unavoidable things in the game, like hunger and sanity issues would be great.

[RalphKastro]

No exactly not. If you would have read my post, you would know that you would never be able to see flint spawning. And since the joining player is the one who is most likely to find it, he will not even notice the appearance of the flint since he did not see the area before the flint was spawning there. The only thing that is inconsistent is, that if another player findes the flint, he found a flint that was not there before, considering that he already revealed that spot(granted, it is very likely that it is revealed due to it being in the starting area). Which is a sacrifice i would be willing to make. (Despite me not considering it a sacrifice).

Also i just want to make clear that i don't feel the need for this. I normally know what i am doing and i also get along without flint in the starting area. But i am an experienced player and not a newbie. And you can't just give a new player a torch and expect him to survive for long without any tools.

 

Lastly i really think that there will never be a starter pack, because it is not fitting in the story and after watching the latest dev-casts, i had the impression that story and cohesiveness is very important for Klei at least more important than holding the hand of new players. But a spawn of 2-5 elements in the starting biome is not really game breaking, neither is it camp worthy, nor is it cutting in the story in a logical way, since the spawn is hidden from the player, making it like the flint has always been there and was just overlooked.

 

First off, what's not cohesive in the starter pack? If you think about it, it might just be that the characters decided to grab some stuff before entering the portal. Very easy to explain, don't you think? Now, the only reason I can come up for those flint pieces that keep appearing randomly all over the place, is that Charlie has gone crazy and decided to walk around with a sack of flint, for reasons.

And also, you may be wiling to make this "sacrifice", but you're not the only one here. This thing should obviously remain off by default, but if Klei is going to choose one of these 2 ideas, which one do you think that they would choose? The Starter Pack, which is very similar to something they've already done called "Default Plus", and presents no annoying downsides, or the Flint random spawning, that makes flint grow like it's part of the grass, and can potentially flood bases at spawn, while also breaking consistency every time you see it in action?

[DuBears]

OR... if the server host really just wants the player to start with basic material, then he can just spawn in some tools/ materials using the console.

[Silentdarkness1]

OR... if the server host really just wants the player to start with basic material, then he can just spawn in some tools/ materials using the console.

Do you have any, ANY idea how clunk-tastic that is?

 

Especially if you don't know how to spawn in more than one unit of an item at a time. This means that the server owner has to find each player at spawn, assuming they don't run off(in which case, said person is at disadvantage because there's no admin way to find a player in the world), bring up the console, leaving themselves unable to do anything, and then DebugSpawn the items in.

 

Sorry, I don't see that as a viable solution.

[DaMich]

First off, what's not cohesive in the starter pack? If you think about it, it might just be that the characters decided to grab some stuff before entering the portal. Very easy to explain, don't you think? Now, the only reason I can come up for those flint pieces that keep appearing randomly all over the place, is that Charlie has gone crazy and decided to walk around with a sack of flint, for reasons.

And also, you may be wiling to make this "sacrifice", but you're not the only one here. This thing should obviously remain off by default, but if Klei is going to choose one of these 2 ideas, which one do you think that they would choose? The Starter Pack, which is very similar to something they've already done called "Default Plus", and presents no annoying downsides, or the Flint random spawning, that makes flint grow like it's part of the grass, and can potentially flood bases at spawn, while also breaking consistency every time you see it in action?

 

So what exactly would stop griefers or greedy players form camping spawn, but at this time not just looting the flint but killing every new player, since he is defenseless and probabaly not expecting it. It would be even more valuable than camping the starting biome for flint because they would not even have to look for it and would also get more out of it, since the default + contains more than just flint.

And you can kill people even on pve servers so don't give me that, especially if you can prepare for it.(e.g. tentacles)

[DaMich]

 

I've been talking with Peter, and he seems to like the idea.

 

 

 

Have you played Don't Starve singleplayer?

 

I've had many a world where I was scraping around to get just enough flint. And this is singleplayer! SINGLEPLAYER! Now, imagine scraping to do this, with three or four other players running around doing the same thing. Doomed.

 

It's not the game that "holds the player's hand". It's the server host. It can be off by default. Besides, what if someone wants to make a server for doing fun stuff? Being able to quiet down some of the more unavoidable things in the game, like hunger and sanity issues would be great.

 

 

So you died in Don't Starve Together because you didn't find flint? I am just talking out of experience but i did not encounter a scenario there i did not have enough flint to be able to leave the starting area, or die.

Also i never really encountered this scenario in the single player (excluding adventure mode)

(I played single player 135h and Don't Starve together 42h according to steam)

[RalphKastro]

So what exactly would stop griefers or greedy players form camping spawn, but at this time not just looting the flint but killing every new player, since he is defenseless and probabaly not expecting it. It would be even more valuable than camping the starting biome for flint because they would not even have to look for it and would also get more out of it, since the default + contains more than just flint.

And you can kill people even on pve servers so don't give me that, especially if you can prepare for it.(e.g. tentacles)

 

errm, what? You see, I don't see how any suggestion but yours makes people want to camp spawn.

In case you didn't notice, people would spawn with those things in their inventory, and I'm quite sure nobody would waste their time and resources for the occasional 3 flint, some grass and wood(which, In my opinion, shouldn't be in the pack). And even worse in PvP-off servers, in which there would be a ridiculous amount of investment, and great risks of ban just to get those basic resources. If anybody tried to do this, they would be banned before they even got a chance to kill anyone.

[DaMich]

errm, what? You see, I don't see how any suggestion but yours makes people want to camp spawn.

In case you didn't notice, people would spawn with those things in their inventory, and I'm quite sure nobody would waste their time and resources for the occasional 3 flint, some grass and wood(which, In my opinion, shouldn't be in the pack). And even worse in PvP-off servers, in which there would be a ridiculous amount of investment, and great risks of ban just to get those basic resources. If anybody tried to do this, they would be banned before they even got a chance to kill anyone.

 

Sorry, but would you build your camp at spawn to get more flint? Even the idea sounds stupid. And what stops servers from banning people who camp the spawn for flint. I mean everything you say can be applied in the same way to the default + as it can be applied to the flint spawning.

The more i think about this entire situation  the more i come to the conclusion that such a feature (neither of the both discussed here is needed, just crank up the flint to lots if the host so desires. But the more Don't Starve together i play, the less i see the need for this problem. Maybe i am just lucky.

[Silentdarkness1]

No, cranking up the flint to lots does not settle the problem. Matter of fact, setting anything to lots tends to have an......unhelpful....effect on the worldgen, crowding out other resources to make room. This only delays the inevitability of flint running out.around the spawn area on top of it. Why would I, as a server host, decide to start choking all other resources for map spots to spawn in, expressly for the sake of flint?

 

And to answer your question? No. I wouldn't. Because i'm not a fool. But then again, i'm not representative of the DST fanbase. (I did not mean to insult good people, i'm sure there's A LOT of nice people playing DST ) You may not be having problems like this atm, but that's because Klei has been hand-picking the beta participating up until now. Let's see what happens when it hits Early Access.

 

Also, yes. Yes, you are lucky. Again, banning people who do it constantly is nice, but why enable this in the first place? Also, it's very very hard to kill people in non-PVP servers, short of boobytrapping things with fire. Which you really only get away with if AFK happens.

 

Bottom line is, all the alternate ideas i've heard here so far feel shallow and prone to failure...

[shigad]

No exactly not. If you would have read my post, you would know that you would never be able to see flint spawning. 

your post says "some flint randomly as soon as someone joins in the biome around the portal"

nothing about "outside of player's vision" or "in an unexplored area"

[DaMich]

Oh yeah you are right, i did not mention it in that discussion, bur i mentioned it in this thread and got a little confused

 

And lastly, you can avoid spawning it on structures or near other players