[Roadmap] Objectives And Worldviews Towards Alpha

[lifemare]

This thread exists to gather our thoughs from other threads.
It's a suggestions thread, but for organizing and prioritizing, and developing a plan to focus our collective efforts towards alpha and subsequent releases.
This OP will be updated to include all ideas offered in this topic. And everything in it is open to discussion at all times.

 

Note1: If an item listed below doesn't have a question mark, it's safe to assume a degree of consensus has been achieved about it.

Note2: Green/Red color coding denotes approved/pending status.

 

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PLAN A

1. Define theme for Level 1

- Main theme: Jack and the Beanstalk

- Complements: Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of Oz and other fairytales (Brothers Grimm, HC Andersen, Greek Tragedies, etc)

- Vanilla elements + Lovecraft

 

2. Define properties for first 3 biomes

[biome 01 - Snow (default)]

- Poopturf. Coldest of biomes? Regular snowing?

- 1-2 native mobs (Sheep/Ram?; LongBill/Duckraptor?)

- 1-2 native flora (ThunderTrees?; Ball Lightning?)

- 1 setpiece (Strix Touchstone?)

- 1 boss (Beanclops?)

[biome 02 – Aurora?]

- Iridescent dark clouds?, Shadow creatures during sanity?

- 1-2 native mobs (Mantas?; Octocopters?; Batilisks??)

- 1-2 native flora (Cloud Algae?;?)

- 1 setpiece (Witches Grove?)

- 1 boss (Octoballoon?)

[biome 03 – Rainbow?]

- Multicolored turf. Mix between candyland and flower-power? Sanity drain?

- 1-2 native mobs (Rainbowcoons; Antlions?)

- 1-2 native flora (Aeronemone?;?)

- 1 setpiece (Beanzealots?; Scarecrows?)

- 1 boss (Beanclops?; Chimaera?; Cheshire?)

[boons]

- Golden Harp (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

 

3. Define frequency of mobs according to biome (B1, B2, B3).

[Rare Average]?

- Golden Golem (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- ?Golden Moose (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

[uncommon Average]?

- Beanlets (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Aetheel (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Electric Sheep/Storm Ram (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Flying Fish (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- LongBill/Duckraptor (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Rainbowcoon (B1- 0? | B2 - 0? | B3 - common?)

- Strix (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Marshmallow Bees (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

[Common Average]?

- Frogs (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Skyflies (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Birds of Paradise (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

 

4. Define frequency of flora according to biome (B1, B2, B3).

[Rare Average]?

- Skyshrooms (B1- 0? | B2 - 0? | B3 - common?)

- Thunder Trees (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Flytrap (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- ?Nyx Shrooms (B1- 0? | B2 - 0? | B3 - ?)

- ?Cloud Coral (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

[uncommon Average]?

- Skyflowers/Datura (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- ?Cloud Algae (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- ?Source of Cocoa (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- ??Aeronemone/source for Ambrosia recipe (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

[Common Average]?

 - Cloud Bushes (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

 

6. Define Items that can be crafted/dropped/found , their sources and their drop-rate (DR).

[Craftable]

- Cotton Clothes (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- Smores (1 cooked Marshmallow)

- Crystal Lamps (Recipe: 3? crystals + ??? + ???)

- Mag Net

- Staff of Growth (Recipe: 1 Black Gem + ??? + ???)

- Staff of Static (Recipe: 1 White Gem + ??? + ???)

- Cloud Walls (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- Stone Refiner (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- Cloud Farms (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- ?Everseer Staff (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- ?CrystalTorch (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- ?Cloud Wall (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- ??Weather Machine (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- ??Ambrosia (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- ??Wool Clothes (Recipe: ??? + ??? + ???)

- ???Potions

[Dropped/Mined/Scavenged/Grown/etc]

- Candy Fruit (picked food) [source: Cloud Bushes]

- Marshmallows (dropped/scavenged food) [source: Marshmallow Bees (?xDR=?%) & Beehives (?xDR=?%)]

- Magic Beans (dropped/plantable) [source: Beanclops?] (?xDR=?%)

- Crystal Shards (mined) [source:Crystals] (?xDR=?%)

- Gears (dropped) [source: Octocopters] (?xDR=?%)

- Magnets (dropped) [source: Octocopters] (?xDR=?%)

- Manta Leather (dropped) [source: Mantas] (?xDR=?%)

- Sting Whip (dropped) [source: Mantas] (?xDR=?%)

- Golden Eggs (dropped?) [source: Duckraptors?] (?xDR=?%)

- Cotton (dropped) [source: Skyflowers] (?xDR=?%)

- ?Coral Shards (mined) [source: Coral] (?xDR=?%)

- ??Wool (dropped) [source: Electric Sheep] (?xDR=?%)

- ??White Gem (?xDR=?%)

- ??Black Gem (?xDR=?%)

[Found]

- Cauldron (B2?)

- Eldrichest (B2?)

- ?Golden Lyre (dropped/found?) (?xDR=?%)

very incomplete (more recent ideas will keep being added)

 

7. Define structures and other world elements and their frequency.

- Beanstalk & Sky Waves

- Cloudcrags (B1- common | B2 - common? | B3 - common?)

- Monolith (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Crystals (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - common?)

- Marshmallow Hives (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- Crystal Touchstone  (B2?)

- ?Rainbow Bridge (lv.up) (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

- ?Whirlwinds (lv.up) (B1- ? | B2 - ? | B3 - ?)

 

(In progress)

 

Meanwhile, if you'd all care to forward some certainties and start reaching some unanimity in all this, we do have a pandemic of question marks in here...

 

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Further reading:

Every post in here :^P

The Biota OP

The Mod Contents OP

The post that led to this thread

The post describing our current scenarios for levels

The post containing our current biome distribution

The post containing a brief dated description of biota

A post attempting to distribute mobs by biome

The post containing our current mobs and their respective drops

[debugman18]

I think we should focus on one level at a time, for starters. So that involves defining a theme. In this case, it's Jack and the Beanstalk, with some fairy tale potpourri. 

 

The mechanics of the mod, as well as biota, that make up the atmosphere should be our main priority, in my opinion.

 

So far static is working beautifully (@simplex's doing) and anti-fire is on the drawing board. How do we want anti-fire to work? I think a component could be easily created that would effect all things with the burnable component, and drastically speed up the process; At least for the first level.

 

As for the biota, I think we should come up with a short list of things that will be common, things that will be uncommon, things that will be rare, and things that will be unique.

[simplex]

I think we should focus on one level at a time, for starters. So that involves defining a theme. In this case, it's Jack and the Beanstalk, with some fairy tale potpourri. 

 

The mechanics of the mod, as well as biota, that make up the atmosphere should be our main priority, in my opinion.

 

So far static is working beautifully (@simplex's doing) and anti-fire is on the drawing board. How do we want anti-fire to work? I think a component could be easily created that would effect all things with the burnable component, and drastically speed up the process; At least for the first level.

 

As for the biota, I think we should come up with a short list of things that will be common, things that will be uncommon, things that will be rare, and things that will be unique.

I agree. We should focus on the core mechanics and ambiance of the mod and make that the skeleton of our roadmap. The static mechanics and things like the fire extinguishing fall right in line with that.

And I just implemented the fire extinguishing, by the way. See what you guys think.

[lifemare]

Two things i'd add to my post in the Suggestions thread are:

 

- Not being afraid to include some mobs that inhabit the overworld (in a creative way of course). In fact, we should activelly pursue this goal, so that this mod offers some elements of familiarity to the player - otherwise it might risk being too different and weird and not really fitting with the rest of DS. Sort of like the caves, where you can find biomes, items and mobs from the overworld and where some things are actually a play on the world above (rabbits/bunnymen).

Example:

Frogs rain from the sky in adventure mode. We should see some in the clouds aswell.

Flying fish, Marshmallow Bees are also good examples. We've been neglecting birds though...

 

- Compile an organized list of essential items for survival up there (after deciding which mechanics will exist of course), and provide sources for them.

[debugman18]

I think the cauldron setpeice would be a good place to put frogs, if we did that.

[simplex]

Two things i'd add to my post in the Suggestions thread are:

 

- Not being afraid to include some mobs that inhabit the overworld (in a creative way of course). In fact, we should activelly pursue this goal, so that this mod offers some elements of familiarity to the player - otherwise it might risk being too different and weird and not really fitting with the rest of DS. Sort of like the caves, where you can find biomes, items and mobs from the overworld and where some things are actually a play on the world above (rabbits/bunnymen).

Example:

Frogs rain from the sky in adventure mode. We should see some in the clouds aswell.

Flying fish, Marshmallow Bees are also good examples. We've been neglecting birds though...

 

- Compile an organized list of essential items for survival up there (after deciding which mechanics will exist of course), and provide sources for them.

Damn, I'm out of likes already. I definitely agree that we should think of vanilla elements that go well up there.

[MilleniumCount]

Yes,

I would say clearly Birds and Frogs since they can either fly or fall down from up there ingame.

[Craig_Perry]

once we have the basic ideas for level 1 we should polish them up and make sure its working as intended and they all interact with each other in a way to keep the gameplay interesting,

currently the gameplay is perfect, you have to explore for new rewards but you must take care the cold and the rams are out there 

[lifemare]

Very short on time for the forum this week, but i'll update this thread bit by bit everyday after work.

Keep those great ideas coming, guys!

 

I think the cauldron setpeice would be a good place to put frogs, if we did that.

 

I was leaning towards them being common mobs, or at least common in 1 biome...

Since they're one of those elements that add familiarity to the cloud environment, and according to the "math" i did for mob frequency we do need more common mobs.

But that's a good idea, and everything's still open... I'd be fine with doing that, if we manage to populate the world a litte better.

[simplex]

Good compilation of ideas, lifemare!

I have a few observations, though: since skyflies don't spawn on the world itself, but instead from flowers, I think they shouldn't be included in the frequency list (unless we plan on tweaking the spawn delay according to biome); also, the flying fish would be catchable from "ponds" (wouldn't it?), so it shouldn't be listed there as well (since it's the pond frequency that matters).

[lifemare]

Good compilation of ideas, lifemare!

I have a few observations, though: since skyflies don't spawn on the world itself, but instead from flowers, I think they shouldn't be included in the frequency list (unless we plan on tweaking the spawn delay according to biome); also, the flying fish would be catchable from "ponds" (wouldn't it?), so it shouldn't be listed there as well (since it's the pond frequency that matters).

 

I'll put Skyflowers in there when i do the flora list then.

I don't know about the flying fish either, will they be regular looking ponds, or cloud ponds? I'll have to add that to the doc, i'd forgotten about that discussion...

We should probably have a ToDo thread here with the contents on the 3rd Slide of the doc, so artists can check which art needs doing, since i'm not sure people are actually using the doc for reference... Want to that, debugman18?

 

EDIT:

Do you both agree with the creatures frequency btw? I separated them by average rarity, they can be 0% on 2 biomes and common on 1 (uncommon average). What does everyone think about that?

[Luggs]

Space sheep? When did that happen?

[simplex]

Do you both agree with the creatures frequency btw? I separated them by average rarity, they can be 0% on 2 biomes and common on 1 (uncommon average). What does everyone think about that?

 

Seems about right. Except for frogs being common. "Average" is ok by me, but I think common is stretching it.

 

Space sheep? When did that happen?

I didn't want to pick details. But yeah, lifemare, please rename them to what they are: electric sheep.

[lifemare]

Space sheep? When did that happen?

 

uh-oh, my bad. that's just my nickname for them.

I think the agreed upon one was Sheep/Ram.....

Thanks for pointing that out.

[lifemare]

 I didn't want to pick details. But yeah, lifemare, please rename them to what they are: electric sheep.

 

Ok. now i'm confused. Electric Sheep/Storm Ram?

 

Please pick on everything, details or otherwise!

[Luggs]

@lifemare

They naturally utilize the ambient electricity in the air to survive. When the cycle reaches its peak, as Wendy says, "their cup runneth over." The amount of electricity running through them is too much and is released as agression. Hence. Storm Rams.

[lifemare]

I actually quite like the Electric Sheep name, specially because it reminds me of Blade Runner, and that's always good!

[Luggs]

I actually quite like the Electric Sheep name, specially because it reminds me of Blade Runner, and that's always good!

Slight derail: Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep?

[TheDanaAddams]

Slight derail: Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep?

Not a derail at all!

In fact, I was going to suggest that WX78's examine quote read something along the lines of "I've had dreams about these things..." ;P

[Luggs]

Not a derail at all!

In fact, I was going to suggest that WX78's examine quote read something along the lines of "I've had dreams about these things..." ;P

He actually hints at it. "WHY ARE THESE CREATURES FAMILIAR TO ME?"

[TheDanaAddams]

He actually hints at it. "WHY ARE THESE CREATURES FAMILIAR TO ME?"

Very subtle! Nicely done. =3

[Luggs]

Very subtle! Nicely done. =3

You wouldn't believe me where I actually got the inspiration from.

[lifemare]

OP updated a bit more.

I'd really appreciate it if someone can tell if this is going in the right direction, if it's useful, and how are we planning on getting rid of all the incognitas (since this isn't generating much discussion right now...).

 

EDIT:

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I'd leave things like mob frequency and item drop-rates outside of this and in the hands of our wizards, since those variables are very interdependent and better comprehended when dealing with the full code, but debugman18 specifically asked for some of this to be included, so, even if it complicates the OP, i'm leaving it there. Although i'm open to suggestions on how to better structure that, if it's starting to become too cryptic... 

[simplex]

OP updated a bit more.

I'd really appreciate it if someone can tell if this is going in the right direction, if it's useful, and how are we planning on getting rid of all the incognitas (since this isn't generating much discussion right now...).

 

EDIT:

---

I'd leave things like mob frequency and item drop-rates outside of this and in the hands of our wizards, since those variables are very interdependent and better comprehended when dealing with the full code, but debugman18 specifically asked for some of this to be included, so, even if it complicates the OP, i'm leaving it there. Although i'm open to suggestions on how to better structure that, if it's starting to become too cryptic...

I think it's going in the right direction. It's natural it hasn't got down to specifics yet since only the default biome has its basic elements, such as turf, already done (though we could use temporary ground types for them and start working on the big picture with them already there). I just didn't get that datura listed in the rate flora. The datura is the static counterpart of the skyflower, so is that meant as a permanent datura?

I feel mob frequency should be discussed by all (or at least by more than just the coders). Tuning aspects as a whole should.

And further along we need to think about structuring biome groups as tasks (but getting the biomes done comes first).

[lifemare]

I think it's going in the right direction. It's natural it hasn't got down to specifics yet since only the default biome has its basic elements, such as turf, already done (though we could use temporary ground types for them and start working on the big picture with them already there).

 

I'd say the priority there is defining what properties the remaining 2 biomes should have, so both the turf art and the biome contents can reflect that.

Are we fixed on the Storm and Rainbow biome going in to production for the first level?

I've made an effort to order things by their degree of priority, so i think we should start considering going through the plan, line by line, and making those tough decisions, one by one, as a group.

 

I'm planning on adding a list of biome suggestions to this thread, or reviving that discussion in the Cauldron, but for now all i have are mine - need to do a little digging around first...

 

I just didn't get that datura listed in the rate flora. The datura is the static counterpart of the skyflower, so is that meant as a permanent datura?

 

Sorry, i'd forgotten about that, was treating it like flowers/evil flowers.