Farms not needed at all

[_Q_]

Oh you guys. You just can't help yourself but hoard, can you?From looking at the numbers, I think that an individual box produces at too great a rate. If I bring it down too much you'll just grind for it, but I think it does need some balance. Maybe honey itself is just too tempting at the moment, and needs a little nerf. I think the fact that everyone seems so honey obsessed means that it is too good in relation to other foods.Or maybe poor wilson should go into sugar shock if all you do is eat honey ham all dang day. Don't make me add a nutrition system!

Nutrition system sounds good.We have some food problems. Meat is easy to get from pigs or their monster form, add to it some monster meat - you can set up few traps near spider den and you have fresh monster meat every day without any risk. Honey also quite easy to get, and very OP at the moment, I always use only 2 bee boxes - that is all I need for tons of honey ham. Production rate of honey should be a little slower, also bee boxes spits bees like machine gun, I can stand with bug net there and have tons of bees, I can make bee mines from that and watch that beefalos die - again no risk. And the last we have farms, that I don't feel the need to build while having tons of meat and honey. Whole problem here is the amount of meat, monster meat and honey you can get in a short time without any risk. Pigs are also easy to farm, I don't see any use for Pig Houses. We can build them but like with farms there is no real reason to do it. Pigs should be more of a hired warriors than bacon farm, let them live in more primitive shacks with very long respawn time, and let player build pig houses cut respawn time in half, but still keep it long enough that it can't be bacon farm. Less food in the world and more risk in getting it, like spiders cannot be trapped and as soon as you step on that sticky webbing spider warriors come out to attack you. And you need to find the balance in food granting health, hunger and sanity, some crock pot dishes should be only good at one of those.

[Palpetinus]

Less food in the world and more risk in getting it, like spiders cannot be trapped and as soon as you step on that sticky webbing spider warriors come out to attack you.

Oh, so i wouldn't have to risk to get attacked by spiders on the webbing, as i only have to touch the webbing with one foot and they come for me.. Honestly, that idea is stupid^^

[_Q_]

Oh, so i wouldn't have to risk to get attacked by spiders on the webbing, as i only have to touch the webbing with one foot and they come for me.. Honestly, that idea is stupid^^

Maybe not as soon as you step on it, but they should do some surprise attacks on you, and that spider can be trapped thing should go away.

[Palpetinus]

Maybe not as soon as you step on it, but they should do some surprise attacks on you, and that spider can be trapped thing should go away.

I agree on being unable to trap spider warriors, but the normal spiders are twohit with a spear, it's just not worth it to "buff" them in that way.

[FrenchTart]

Why not simply have the bees turn to killer bees when you harvest the box? Then you need to clear them out in the same way that you would do for a normal bee hive filled with killer bees.This would do a few things:* Reduce the honey production rate a little for a while after you clear out the box (whilst the normal bees regenerate).* Make the player sacrifice more of their log suit/bee hat in order to harvest the honey. On that note, the bee hat should be slightly less resistant to bees and/or break quicker.Reducing the production rate a bit (maybe to 1/2 of what it currently is) would be good too. Players may grind for more bee boxes I guess but to be honest the way it is 2 bee boxes give you effectively infinite honey. I have been playing a game with the mime and not paying attention to my bee boxes but I've still got 80-odd in a coolbox despite using honey as my primary food source.I also quite like the bees fighting each other idea. It'd be interesting if the bee hives themselves worked in this way and/or upgraded in the same way as spider nests. Fighting bee queens could be fun

Edited February 19, 2013 by FrenchTart

[Palpetinus]

Why not simply have the bees turn to killer bees when you harvest the box? Then you need to clear them out in the same way that you would do for a normal bee hive filled with killer bees.This would do a few things:* Reduce the honey production rate a little for a while after you clear out the box (whilst the normal bees regenerate).* Make the player sacrifice more of their log suit/bee hat in order to harvest the honey. On that note, the bee hat should be slightly less resistant to bees and/or break quicker.I also quite like the bees fighting thing. It'd be interesting if the bee hives themselves worked in this way and/or upgraded in the same way as spider nests. Fighting bee queens could be fun

Reducing the production rate would be silly, i could just build one or two more boxes to make it even.And the armo(u)r is not the problem, as i always kite them and never get hit.

[FrenchTart]

Reducing the production rate would be silly, i could just build one or two more boxes to make it even.And the armo(u)r is not the problem, as i always kite them and never get hit.

I've edited in a little more.I'm pretty sure it's nearly impossible not to get hit when you first harvest the box? Obviously after that it is quite easy to run around and avoid damage of course.

[_Q_]

Look at larger picture of all food sources, honey is only part of bigger problem.

[FrenchTart]

Look at larger picture of all food sources, honey is only part of bigger problem.

I completely agree. Sometimes you have to break down a problem into smaller parts and fix those one at a time though.The fountain of meat that is pig villages and/or beefalo herds is clearly a fairly major problem too.

[Silvi]

The 'problem' is that once you have a base you can have loads of food comming from different sources. The game isn't hard once you have a base and 2-3 food sources. I don't think any amount of tweaking is going to 'fix' that.I'm not even sure if it's an issue to begin with. Rather than punish having food sources, just encourage exploration (which the consecutive updates do anyway) and we're golden.

[_Q_]

The 'problem' is that once you have a base you can have loads of food comming from different sources. The game isn't hard once you have a base and 2-3 food sources. I don't think any amount of tweaking is going to 'fix' that.I'm not even sure if it's an issue to begin with. Rather than punish having food sources, just encourage exploration (which the consecutive updates do anyway) and we're golden.

Exploration is nice thing to do, but one you put a base near pig village and get some honey you don't have to leave your base at all, there is nothing that will make you go on exploration. You can just farm pigs and bee boxes. Beside all that I just want the words: Uncompromising Wilderness Survival have some real meaning. Exploration can be a part of survival, you must explore to get food required to survive, you must run short on food from time to time, feel some pressure from the world, right now its not there.

[Palpetinus]

I think one of the problems is that you can build everything in a small place around your campfire. 10 farms on one screen, 6 beeboxes in a very small place,I think farms should have too less fertility when built too close to eachother, and bees should fight eachother when there isn't atleast like 2 screen-lengths between them.Pigs respawning after 5 days, to prevent grinding there...EDIT: And i kind of find this whole "you have to explore" thing stupid, honestly.Humans stay in one place since 20.000 years ago.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Palpetinus

[Silvi]

Exploration is nice thing to do, but one you put a base near pig village and get some honey you don't have to leave your base at all, there is nothing that will make you go on exploration. You can just farm pigs and bee boxes. Beside all that I just want the words: Uncompromising Wilderness Survival have some real meaning. Exploration can be a part of survival, you must explore to get food required to survive, you must run short on food from time to time, feel some pressure from the world, right now its not there.

That's because resources to make a base are pretty easy to come across and there are no real big threats that could get you right off the bat, when you are vulnerable; the bosses come later and by that time you usually have a base (unless you're doing an extreme run).When I say resources I have grass etc in mind; but food is also pretty easy to come by. In fact I bet you could survive by just running around and picking berries from bushes and munching down some monster meat - the only threat that would prevent you from surviving in that scenario is boredom, which would get you before the hounds. All the food types restore a lot of hunger. It's literally impossible to starve if you know the mechanics behind the game and play it reasonable (not even safe. Just reasonable as in -> I see 4 berry bushes, I pick at least one).Beeboxes and farms just make the game even less of a challenge, thing is once you are able to build them you usually already have a base anyway. Pig houses make the game a cakewalk. To people who are familiar with the game's mechanics, this game is easy; to people who are new to it it seems hard, but they will learn how to survive pretty fast through their own errors. I'm not sure if making the game a real uncompromising wilderness survival would be possible without slowing down all the resource regeneration, making wood a little less 'easy-replenishable' and adding more hurdles I could probably think up if I felt masochistic enough. Edited February 19, 2013 by Silvi
typos

[Palpetinus]

That's because resources to make a base are pretty easy to come across and there are no real big threats that could get you right off the bat, when you are vulnerable; the bosses come later and by that time you usually have a base (unless you're doing an extreme run).When I say resources I have grass etc in mind; but food is also pretty easy to come by. In fact I bet you could survive by just running around and picking berries from bushes and munching down some monster meat - the only threat that would prevent you from surviving in that scenario is boredom, which would get you before the hounds. All the food types restore a lot of hunger. It's literally impossible to starve if you know the mechanics behind the game and play it reasonable (not even safe. Just reasonable as in -> I see 4 berry bushes, I pick at least one).Beeboxes and farms just make the game even less of a challenge, thing is once you are able to build them you usually already have a base anyway. Pig houses make the game a cakewalk. To people who are familiar with the game's mechanics, this game is easy; to people who are new to it it seems hard, but they will learn how to survive pretty fast through their own errors. I'm not sure if making the game a real uncompromising wilderness survival would be possible without slowing down all the resource regeneration, making wood a little less 'easy-replenishable' and adding more hurdles I could probably think up if I felt masochistic enough.

Yes, one could just live off berries, flowers (for some extra healing), monster meat and torches.

[_Q_]

My pig village has around 15 berry bushes in it, add meat I can get form pigs and you are ready to get bored to death.

[Silvi]

My pig village has around 15 berry bushes in it, add meat I can get form pigs and you are ready to get bored to death.

pretty much this. Once you know what is what, game challenge = 0This is exactly why I make up addition challenges for myself, like:"uncover whole map without chopping down a single tree and without standing in place at night just holding the torch" "Never eat stuff that wasn't cooked in croak pot" (counts from day 1 so no food till I get croak pot)"Sleep through every night" (kinda a desperate resource run)"Insanity 0 run" which I attempted. Got vertigo but it seemed entertaining.etc etc.This game is fun but it's not uncompromising survival just yet. Edited February 19, 2013 by Silvi

[Palpetinus]

pretty much this. Once you know what is what, game challenge = 0

I think (hope) winter will correct that :S

[Silvi]

I think (hope) winter will correct that :S

heh was editing my post while you ninja'd me.and winter will probably inspire hoarding food like a squirrel buuuuut that's only my suspicion. Since we have fridges it all depends on how long the winter will last.

[Palpetinus]

heh was editing my post while you ninja'd me.and winter will probably inspire hoarding food like a squirrel buuuuut that's only my suspicion. Since we have fridges it all depends on how long the winter will last.

Well, we are hoarding and overproducing in reallife, too. It's in our nature.

[_Q_]

Winter comes after 30 days, and that first 30 days need some tweaks in the amount of food and other resources, and structures like farms and pig houses must have some meaning and purpose beside sitting in crafting bar.

[Silvi]

Winter comes after 30 days, and that first 30 days need some tweaks in the amount of food and other resources, and structures like farms and pig houses must have some meaning and purpose beside sitting in crafting bar.

That and I do believe the night will be longer in winter.The first 30 days must be already difficult to survive on the food available to prevent overhoarding. I'm not a fan of those but what if the crops don't even grow beyond a certain amount of times before day 30 (and making new fields wouldn't reset the counter)? So no overusing poo to mass produce veggies. Or hell maybe no crops at all before winter, first winter you have to survive on what you can hunt down and what little berries you are able to get. Obviously the honey problem still prevails, unless there are certain amount of honey doses the hive can produce (again, no count reset).Anything to make the first winter actually mean something.

[Palpetinus]

That and I do believe the night will be longer in winter.The first 30 days must be already difficult to survive on the food available to prevent overhoarding. I'm not a fan of those but what if the crops don't even grow beyond a certain amount of times before day 30 (and making new fields wouldn't reset the counter)? So no overusing poo to mass produce veggies. Or hell maybe no crops at all before winter, first winter you have to survive on what you can hunt down and what little berries you are able to get. Obviously the honey problem still prevails, unless there are certain amount of honey doses the hive can produce (again, no count reset).Anything to make the first winter actually mean something.

I wonder if there will be some kind of "greenhouse", so those who are not prepared aren't completely helpless.

[Silvi]

I wonder if there will be some kind of "greenhouse", so those who are not prepared aren't completely stoned.

I'd wager that there will be ways to get food in winter - hunting most likely. I am not liking the greenhouse idea.

[Palpetinus]

I'd wager that there will be ways to get food in winter - hunting most likely. I am not liking the greenhouse idea.

Well, to be honest, i don't even like it myself. But it was the first thing that came to my mind

[Conny]

Well it is a survival game after all so nutrition doesn't sound like a bad idea. As for the honey, I personally think that you need to upkeep it and feed the bees or something when you take their honey (just like in real life), or they would die. Or, what if we have the same "Respect Nature" rule and a queen bee attacks you if you take too much honey?That'd be creepy as hell.