Math of heat

[Xizz3l]

I need some help with the math behind the heat in this game.

When I have something at a specific heat and I want to cool it some exact amount how can I calculate how much cooling I need in "W"?

For example let's say we have 1kg of water at 20 C and i want it at 10.

We know the Specific Heat Capacity of water: 4.179 (J/g)/K

I am rly bad at physics but what I think that means is that I have to take out 4.179 * 1000 J to cool 1 kg of water 1 K.

With the power of wikipedia I found out that 20 C -> 293,15 K and 10 C -> 283,15, so i need -10K.

-> 4.179 * 1000 J * 10 = 41790 J that I have to cool.

A wheezewort cools with 12kW (12000W). And wikipedia says W = J/s.

Does that mean a wheezewort needs roughly 3,5 seconds to cool 1 kg of water from 20C to 10C?

I want to calculate how much wheezeworts i need too cool a steam geyser to 10C.

A geyser emitts 0.167 kg/s steam(water) at 150 C and 4.028 kg/s water at 95 C.

Steam:

150 C -> 10 C: 423.15 K -> 283.15 K = -140 K

4.179 * 0.167 * 1000 * 140 = 97705.02 J

98 kJ / 12 = 8,17 Wheezeworts

Water:

95 C -> 10 C: -85K

4.179 * 4.028 * 1000 * 85 = 1430806.02 J

1430 kJ / 12 = 119 wheezeworts

 

That would mean I need 127 wheezeworts, what can't be true. Can someone explane me what I did wrong?

 

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

Because we have the thermodynamic bug.

[Kasuha]

46 minutes ago, Xizz3l said:

A wheezewort cools with 12kW (12000W). And wikipedia says W = J/s.

Does that mean a wheezewort needs roughly 3,5 seconds to cool 1 kg of water from 20C to 10C?

Performance of a Wort depends on what gas is it in. It cools the gas at a rate 1 kg/s by 5 C (= 5 K). You get best performance out of it if you place it in hydrogen, other gases reduce the amount of heat it destroys.

46 minutes ago, Xizz3l said:

That would mean I need 127 wheezeworts, what can't be true. Can someone explane me what I did wrong?

You did nothing wrong, yes that's the actual number (assuming your Worts are in hydrogen, otherwise it would be more).

There's no way to cool full geyser production using Worts or Nullifiers, you need to employ other methods, such as:

• Using the water hot (electrolyzers or scrubbers don't mind 95 C water and their output temp doesn't depend on it)
• Transferring the heat to polluted water using aquatuners, then getting that polluted water destroyed together with the heat in fertilizer makers or by boiling it to steam (a lot of heat is lost on transmutation of polluted water into steam which has much lower heat capacity)

[Xizz3l]

Ty.

WOW, ok then currently you have to use some heat deleting exploits? 

I wanted to play without, but it seems to be part of the game right now xD

[Kasuha]

1 hour ago, Xizz3l said:

WOW, ok then currently you have to use some heat deleting exploits? 

For the time being I consider heat deletion in machines and via evaporation fair game. If we put drip cooling aside, the game would be unplayable without them so the only thing that remains is that they're there on purpose for the time being (and maybe forever). They're not completely free anyway, 40 C is the lowest you get and that's not very comfortable even to duplicants, even less for plants. For lower temperatures, you must employ some technology or Worts.

Drip cooling is the only real exploit in heat management in my opinion.

[Master Miner]

14 hours ago, Xizz3l said:

Steam:

150 C -> 10 C: 423.15 K -> 283.15 K = -140 K

4.179 * 0.167 * 1000 * 140 = 97705.02 J

Steam has different heat capacity (1.996 J/gK) than water (4.181 J/gK).
When the steam is condensed it releases huge amount of energy (2257 J/g = 2257 kJ/kg). Note that there is no decimal point. 1 kg of condensing water releases energy equal to the energy needed to heat 539kg of water 1 K or to heat 1130 kg of vapor 1 K.
That is what makes huge clouds and storms IRL - rising vapor condenses partially, rest gets heated and continues to rise...

Steam 150°C -> 100°C: 50 * 1.996 = 99.8 kJ/kg
Condensing: 2257 kJ/kg
Water 100°C -> 10°C: 90 * 4.181 = 376.29 kJ/kg
Total: ≈ 2734 kJ/kg

I'm not sure how this is modeled in ONI, perhaps someone has already checked.

Looking now at water and steam details in the game:
Water has specific heat capacity of 4.179 J/gK, not 4.1814
Steam: 4.179 J/gK (same as water) instead of 1.996 J/gK

Writing bug report...

[Kasuha]

1 hour ago, Master Miner said:

Writing bug report...

No point writing a bug report about something that's obviously done intentionally. There's no state change heat in the game, the state change itself happens somewhat behind the declared state change temperature (about 5 C), i.e. water changes to steam at 105 C, steam changes to water at 95 C. It's not clear cut right at the moment but in general that's how the game implements it. That's not a bug. And if the steam had substantially lower heat capacity than water, you'd be able to delete heat just by boiling water with aquatuners and condensing it again with whatever comes out of them. You can already do it with polluted water, except you need additional step of changing the resulting clean water into polluted before you close the cycle. Not that hard but it puts an obstacle in the way.

[Master Miner]

1 hour ago, Kasuha said:

And if the steam had substantially lower heat capacity than water, you'd be able to delete heat just by boiling water with aquatuners and condensing it again with whatever comes out of them.

Not really, it is easy and cheap is to properly implement vaporization heat, please see ... you have already seen that - naturally, the heat heat shall be added back when condensing.

 

[Kasuha]

1 hour ago, Master Miner said:

it is easy and cheap is to properly implement

The only thing I can say about it is, devs are definitely aware of the phenomenon so if they chose to omit it, they had a reason.

[The Plum Gate]

They skipped the part where steam turns to snow. If it condenses and cools rapidly... it  does hail though.