Reworking jobs and stats (Occupational Upgrade)

[ScottFree]

 

Feedback:
The current job system is cool and a great addition. Changes will come and I want to provide feedback on some issues with jobs.

Duplicants do not work in harmony. Early game, there are not enough dupes to ensure specific tasks are completed. Late game, dupes with unaligned jobs can and often do take tasks while the specified worker is idle or doing a task that they are not suited for. This limits productivity. The task is performed slower because the duplicant with the appropriate stats are not being used. Productivity is hurt by duplicants when stratified with the large number of jobs also. 

I’ll divide the jobs into 3 categories.

Jobs with overlap but no synergy in stats
When building a project, the miner works with the architect and vise versa. But this means that there will always be one unspecialized dupe doing something (building or digging) to complete the task. These jobs work best when two dupes are doing them.
Groundskeepers and gofers often cross paths while working. The only difference between the two are the stations they maintain. 

Jobs with dead ends
Artists and engineers have a place in a young colony. However, art can be made in bulk while expanding and advanced generators/stations don’t require a lot of attention past their initial use. These jobs can be freely switched
Researchers are currently do not have a purpose after the research is finished. The time invested in training them is does not transfer into other tasks.

Jobs that make the most sense
Farmers and chefs are the best implemented of the above jobs because their tasks require cyclical attention. They depend on each other, work consistently, but not constantly. They assist with other tasks during lulls. Their stat growth scales well as a colony matures because as new dupes emerge, more food is needed. 

Suggestion:
Reduce the number of jobs by combining complementary tasks and stats. This will increase productivity by allowing dupes to remain at the worksite longer instead of moving around. For jobs with limited applications, they can support the colony by performing pressing jobs between the sporadic tasks.

New jobs (overlaps stats with connected tasks)
Engineer
Stats: Digging, Construction
Tasks: Digging, Building, Deconstruction

Technician
Stats: Tinkering, Athletics
Tasks: Supply, Tidy, Operate

New jobs (balances constant versus sporadic tasks)
Artisan
Stats: Cooking, Art
Tasks: same

Caretaker
Stats: Farming, Caregiving
Tasks: same

Job with no synergy
Researcher
Stats: Learning
Task: same

These jobs would be assigned the same as the current system. The stat growth and job progression would be the same, just with modified names at each tier. 

The end goal is more productivity per duplicant. For example, it takes 2 duplicants as a miner and architect to build a room. The suggestion allows 1 dupe do both tasks. Using two duplicants with the suggested system, they would be doubly productive. This makes more sense intuitively over the current job system. 
 

[BlueLance]

@ScottFree Is there any chance of you commenting with this in my thread as well? I added a poll and I really think everyones opinions should be in a single location with the topic as hot as possible so that it hopefully helps the devs,

I also agree with pretty much evetything you have said, I really do like the system but I can see many others do not, and I think it should be looked at by the devs with everyones feedback

 

 

 

[Kasuha]

3 hours ago, ScottFree said:

Farmers and chefs are the best implemented of the above jobs because their tasks require cyclical attention. They depend on each other, work consistently, but not constantly.

Farmers don't care about plant fertilization and chefs feel out of work when their table is not full of ingredients. If that are the best implemented jobs then ... well ... the system isn't very good as a whole.

If running speed got nerfed so substantially, then the focus should be on duplicant ability to do their jobs without running too much. And that requires them to do all of their job, not just part of it. A farmer should be able to take full care of the farm - planting, fertilization, watering, harvesting.  A cook should be able to take full care of his cooking station - delivering ingredients, cooking. An artist should be able to prepare his canvas, and an architect should be able to build a wall from scratch. Even Miners should be able to build ladders. By "able" I mean have on their job priority level. Help from other duplicants should be an option, not a requirement.

Together with that, there more than before needs to be an 'any' material selection when building, letting the duplicant to grab whatever material is nearby when building a ladder or wall piece. Maybe not the best choice for final state but a great time saver when just expanding the colony.

[blash365]

You are assuming that the current number of tasks does not extend in a future update.

Potential new end-game-tasks:

• Teaching a class (for raising stats, can teach any stats up to the level of his own learning stat) by researchers
• performing (for stress releave) by artists
• repairing/service machinery by engineers

All of those could be wrapped nicely with a new tier of extending jobs.

To me the current categorization leaves alot of room for further additions. I would hate to see that window of opportunity being closed.

[ScottFree]

1 hour ago, blash365 said:

You are assuming that the current number of tasks does not extend in a future update.

I agree and think jobs will be expanded. 

3 hours ago, Kasuha said:

Farmers don't care about plant fertilization and chefs feel out of work when their table is not full of ingredients. If that are the best implemented jobs then ... well ... the system isn't very good as a whole.

If running speed got nerfed so substantially, then the focus should be on duplicant ability to do their jobs without running too much. And that requires them to do all of their job, not just part of it. A farmer should be able to take full care of the farm - planting, fertilization, watering, harvesting.  A cook should be able to take full care of his cooking station - delivering ingredients, cooking. An artist should be able to prepare his canvas, and an architect should be able to build a wall from scratch. Even Miners should be able to build ladders. By "able" I mean have on their job priority level. Help from other duplicants should be an option, not a requirement.

Together with that, there more than before needs to be an 'any' material selection when building, letting the duplicant to grab whatever material is nearby when building a ladder or wall piece. Maybe not the best choice for final state but a great time saver when just expanding the colony.

I wholeheartedly agree and slways felt miners (digging) should include building ladders. Its maddening! Workers should do everything related to the job. 

[Maciej75]

I didn't play new new version yet, but problems I can see described in posts were partially solved in other, similar, games by concept of "warehouse".

Whether it was called "port" on island supplied by ships, or "stockpile" by cart, specialized units were always transporting only to "warehouses", while each fellow was taking his delivery from it personally.

In ONI, there is nice concept of "room". So maybe occupants should deliver things inside room themselves, while room-to-room transport should be handled by specialized unit?

For example, someone should fill in fridge in kitchen, but Cook should himself take products from fridge, cook, and put meal back to fridge. Or farmer should fertilize himself, if there is a storage compactor with fertilizer inside farming room.

[ScottFree]

18 hours ago, Maciej75 said:

I didn't play new new version yet, but problems I can see described in posts were partially solved in other, similar, games by concept of "warehouse".

Whether it was called "port" on island supplied by ships, or "stockpile" by cart, specialized units were always transporting only to "warehouses", while each fellow was taking his delivery from it personally.

In ONI, there is nice concept of "room". So maybe occupants should deliver things inside room themselves, while room-to-room transport should be handled by specialized unit?

For example, someone should fill in fridge in kitchen, but Cook should himself take products from fridge, cook, and put meal back to fridge. Or farmer should fertilize himself, if there is a storage compactor with fertilizer inside farming room.

That sounds like factorio. Currently, I guess there are smart storage containers but ONI gates a lot of the smart features away from the player for a long while.

[Maciej75]

I was rather referring to Anno 2070 and system of harbors handled by ships.

Also, as far as I can remember, Settlers also had an kind of "outpost" where you could request stockpiling configurable amount of goods. Those were filled in advance, so when needed were taken from local warehouse and products were put back there.

I do not want ONI to be another Factorio (that I spent long  time with, anyway). I do not want ideally crafted systems in fixed world. I expect playing with "stupid AI" in dynamically changing (heat, atmosphere) world, promoting "stable equilibria" solutions that can handle (limited) loss of balance by itself.

[randomdupe]

Hybrid jobs is one way to expand the jobs system further in the future