transit tubes power

[eloy2030]

I´m pretty sure is has been discussed already, but, anyway...

Does anyone else think that tube access consumes too much power?

I´d like my dupes to be able to, in the late game, use transit tube almost exclusively. But, with the amount of power they consume, this is not an option.

I´m currently housing 16 dupes. And if, let´s say, 8 of them were to use the at the same time, that would be between 8kw and 16kw (they have to come back). I think it´s just TOO much.

The other problem is the time it takes for the access to recharge, which, while being a nice addition to the game, pretty much renders the tube useless cause of the waiting times...

And third, 1kw of current means I can only use one conductive wire for every two accesses, but I want to build them all over the place. That´s just too much wire (and I don´t mean the ore, I mean the wires themselves).

My suggestion is to bring down the usage from 10KJ to 2,5KJ (or at least 5KJ). And the current to 5kw.

[Saturnus]

Due to their requirements tubes obviously aren't meant as the primary dupe transport. Use poles to go down, and ladders for shorter stretches.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Due to their requirements tubes obviously aren't meant as the primary dupe transport. Use poles to go down, and ladders for shorter stretches.

It does make tubes pretty useless though. I mean you can at best run 2 lines back and forth; anymore and you got power outage in most colonies. I think a better balance should be found, where it is indeed taxing but not overly so.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, turbonl64 said:

It does make tubes pretty useless though. I mean you can at best run 2 lines back and forth; anymore and you got power outage in most colonies.

It's not useless just because it doesn't serve the specific purpose you had in mind. There are many practical uses for tubes especially to areas that are further away from the centre, and that doesn't need to be visited by dupes very often.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

It's not useless just because it doesn't serve the specific purpose you had in mind. There are many practical uses for tubes especially to areas that are further away from the centre, and that doesn't need to be visited by dupes very often.

I actually meant it in the most general way possible, as in remote places on the edges of the map. Naturally you aren't going to use tubes for close range transport. However, there are 2 alternatives that make tubes overall an inferior solution:

-By the time you have researched it, have dug for oil and have produced enough plastic to traverse the whole map, your dupes have already a very high run speed, to the point they can still perform their tasks very well even if having to traverse half the map.

-You can put down a remote colony of a handful of dupes closer to those parts and just limit traffic.

The first solution will only end up being slightly slower and will not cost energy at all. The second solution is actually faster than traversing through tubes, and costs significant less energy.

 

I'm not saying it should be general transport, that's not what I am doing. My suggestion would be to lower the energy cost you can atleast sustain somewhere between 6 to 8 access points next to all else of your base, or significantly increase travel speed through the tubes.

[Saturnus]

I tend to think of it as a standard of living kind of thing. Like high quality food. It's not really needed but when you have everything else why not give your dupes some luxury.

[eloy2030]

42 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I tend to think of it as a standard of living kind of thing. Like high quality food. It's not really needed but when you have everything else why not give your dupes some luxury.

Look, I like to build like any other, and in my current base i´m just building tubes for parts of the asteroid i´m not (probaby) even gonna send any dupes, just for the sake of symmetry. And as there is no rush, i´m gonna pay the price in electricity plastic and iron.

But, let´s be honest here. Game wise, as of now, it doesn´t make any sense. I´m not talking about my own desires, im talking about game mechanics.

Forget for a second of the ¨BEACUSE U CAN BUILD IT¨  mechanic. If i really needed the materials, power and time, I´d never EVER build tubes, not even for leaving the asteroid.

[Zarquan]

One of the main uses I see for the transit tubes is as a perfect airlock.  If you have a room which you wish to keep pure and very very cold (like a liquid o2 room), then the only practical way to access it would be through transit tubes, as most liquids become solid before oxygen becomes liquid, which prevents the use of water locks.  Of course, liquid oxygen rooms are not really that necessary, but it is a potential use where the tube is the best possible option.

It also allows you to more easily perfectly thermally insulate a room but still have access, as you can use a diamond-shaped thing with a vacuum in the middle (G is gas, W is wall, C is crossover, T is tube)

GWG
CTC
GWG

You can also do this for free with two waterlocks, so it isn't all that useful unless the room is very cold.

I think the main benefit is probably the ability to move duplicants to their jobs quickly so that they can work longer before having to come back to breathe (if you are running a base that is too large to practically give everyone an exosuit). 

[eloy2030]

8 hours ago, Zarquan said:

if you are running a base that is too large to practically give everyone an exosuit

well, if your base is that large u can give everyone a suit. There are some bases out there where they make them use them ALL day. I have four exits in my base each with 8 suits. AND a tube access after them.

[chemie]

16 hours ago, Saturnus said:

It's not useless just because it doesn't serve the specific purpose you had in mind. There are many practical uses for tubes especially to areas that are further away from the centre, and that doesn't need to be visited by dupes very often.

except there is little benefit to the speed if it is "not very often".  Having to dedicate an entire transformer to entrance/exit does seem excessive.

Compare to suits where you can ignore the load on a circuit because it is so short a time to charge each station.

11 hours ago, Zarquan said:

One of the main uses I see for the transit tubes is as a perfect airlock.  If you have a room which you wish to keep pure and very very cold (like a liquid o2 room), then the only practical way to access it would be through transit tubes, as most liquids become solid before oxygen becomes liquid, which prevents the use of water locks.  Of course, liquid oxygen rooms are not really that necessary, but it is a potential use where the tube is the best possible option.

It also allows you to more easily perfectly thermally insulate a room but still have access, as you can use a diamond-shaped thing with a vacuum in the middle (G is gas, W is wall, C is crossover, T is tube)

GWG
CTC
GWG

You can also do this for free with two waterlocks, so it isn't all that useful unless the room is very cold.

I think the main benefit is probably the ability to move duplicants to their jobs quickly so that they can work longer before having to come back to breathe (if you are running a base that is too large to practically give everyone an exosuit). 

I had hoped to use them for air locks but sadly they transmit way too much heat (or cold).

[Guest]

Yeah plastic sadly is not a great insulator. Also, for a material that has to be produced it takes a very long while to get enough plastic to cover very large distances.

[Zarquan]

Transit tubes do not conduct heat if they are run through a vacuum.  Neither do wires or pipes.  I use this all the time with heavy watt wires.  I just tested it in game with tubes.  However, the tube needs to be made one tile wider.  The following pictures illustrate this.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244021020
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244020872
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244020761
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244020647

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Zarquan said:

Transit tubes do not conduct heat if they are run through a vacuum.  Neither do wires or pipes.  I use this all the time with heavy watt wires.  I just tested it in game with tubes.  However, the tube needs to be made one tile wider.  The following pictures illustrate this.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244021020
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244020872
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244020761
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1244020647

 

Then again, nothing transmits heat in a vacuum. You can get the same result with 2 airlocks, a pump and optionally some automation.

I know you put it forward as a possible solution, which is good. However, it adds a further burden to an already costly solution with relative low reward.

[chemie]

7 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

Then again, nothing transmits heat in a vacuum. You can get the same result with 2 airlocks, a pump and optionally some automation.

I know you put it forward as a possible solution, which is good. However, it adds a further burden to an already costly solution with relative low reward.

Yah, if I am going to do a vacuum, I can just do the regular 4 doors, one open square for small pump, and another door for perfect temp/pressure seal.

[Zarquan]

I don't completely trust the 4 door airlocks honestly.  A tile of another gas could get in if you have an anemic dupe in an exosuit and I like my purity.

[chemie]

15 hours ago, Zarquan said:

I don't completely trust the 4 door airlocks honestly.  A tile of another gas could get in if you have an anemic dupe in an exosuit and I like my purity.

That's why the 5 doors (4+1+door) works better.  Both thermal lock and prevents % leakage.

You could also use the 2 middle sideways doors (but that is a little exploity)