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Cooling system. What am I doing wrong?


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How come the cold hydrogen isn't cooling the plates, and the plates not cooling the room? I thought tempshift plates were supposed to equalise heat...

In this shot the plates are made of refined copper. I'd previously tried with dirt. Neither worked.

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I don't really understand exactly how the math works for these, but I'll give you the short answer until someone who does comes along.

"cold hydrogen isn't cooling the plates"  it is, just not very effectively, because it's in a pipe, and the thermodynamics involving pipes are a little strange and generally tend towards less interaction between what's in the pipe and the environment than one would expect.

"plates not cooling the room? I thought tempshift plates were supposed to equalise heat..."  ; but the plate IS the same temperature as the gas in the room, this is working exactly as you would expect but you're still surprised?

 

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build a gas bridge cross the temp shift plate, run your cold hydrogen through it.  Connect the tempshift plate to the floor below or ladders.  This will equalise the temp between the pipes gas bridge, the tempshift plate and the ladders, which are suspended in the gas you want cooled.

Yeah throttle your gas flow through the pipes so that its standing still, this will increase thermal transfer between its contents and the outside.  play around with flow rates, but i've found that using throttling the pass 1 packet occaissionally, and using 2 coolers drops the temp more, uses less power and runs more efficiently overall.

I've created O2 liquifiers without even using the tempshift plates, just coolers running hydro through pO2.  So I know the contents will thermal sync

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The plates are slowing cooling down. You equalized the temperature in the room. Because you are dealing with 800kg/cell extra, you have a whole lot more mass. Heat will therefore go down more slowly.

Run this for several cycles; it will go down eventually.

What material did you use for the gas pipes?

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42 minutes ago, Hyperlynx said:

How come the cold hydrogen isn't cooling the plates, and the plates not cooling the room? I thought tempshift plates were supposed to equalise heat...

In this shot the plates are made of refined copper. I'd previously tried with dirt. Neither worked.

 

27 minutes ago, trukogre said:

"plates not cooling the room? I thought tempshift plates were supposed to equalise heat..."  ; but the plate IS the same temperature as the gas in the room, this is working exactly as you would expect but you're still surprised?

The problem is that tempshift plates aren't conducting heat directly to the pipe, opposed to what I would expect them to do. It looks like tempshift plates for now only exchanges heat with tiles, doors, gases and liquids around (3x3) and not buildings or pipes.

image.png.194df081d651f9a51af17964aa34b17c.png

Debug mode test to check if tempshift plate exchanges heat directly with pipe - It does not

Solution to your issue could be to increase gas pressure which will increase heat exchange with the pipe, but it will still be slow. A much better option would probably be to pump cold hydrogen into a room separated with a heat exchanger (metal tile):

image.thumb.png.92c2612f87ec2e84c85654cee668af43.png

Edit: You can still improve on this using automation to stop pumping when required temperature is reached and to let hydrogen heat up

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"The problem is that tempshift plates aren't conducting heat directly to the pipe, opposed to what I would expect them to do. It looks like tempshift plates for now only exchanges heat with tiles, doors, gases and liquids around (3x3) and not buildings or pipes."

Not sure why you expected otherwise. Pipes don't even conduct heat with neighboring pipe segments, so this is consistent with that.

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7 minutes ago, Etiam said:

 

The problem is that tempshift plates aren't conducting heat directly to the pipe, opposed to what I would expect them to do. It looks like tempshift plates for now only exchanges heat with tiles, doors, gases and liquids around (3x3) and not buildings or pipes.

image.png.194df081d651f9a51af17964aa34b17c.png

Debug mode test to check if tempshift plate exchanges heat directly with pipe - It does not

Solution to your issue could be to increase gas pressure which will increase heat exchange with the pipe, but it will still be slow. A much better option would probably be to pump cold hydrogen into a room separated with a heat exchanger (metal tile):

image.thumb.png.92c2612f87ec2e84c85654cee668af43.png

 

The disadvantage will be that you might end up with spots of cold and spots of heat. I'd still recommend temp shift tiles in combination with your solution. That will increase cooling for sure. Slower, but it's worth to keep temperature the same across all plants.

 

I'd also recommend knocking that second metal airlock out. It will conduct heat which you don't want.

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4 minutes ago, trukogre said:

"The problem is that tempshift plates aren't conducting heat directly to the pipe, opposed to what I would expect them to do. It looks like tempshift plates for now only exchanges heat with tiles, doors, gases and liquids around (3x3) and not buildings or pipes."

Not sure why you expected otherwise. Pipes don't even conduct heat with neighboring pipe segments, so this is consistent with that.

It's a special structure for heat distribution, it could be different than pipes :p

3 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

The disadvantage will be that you might end up with spots of cold and spots of heat. I'd still recommend temp shift tiles in combination with your solution. That will increase cooling for sure.

You're right tempshift plates will help equalizing the temperature around the room ;), but it still pretty fast.

image.thumb.png.80a712184e383a0cbebeb306e8abd162.png

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20 minutes ago, Etiam said:

 A much better option would probably be to pump cold hydrogen into a room separated with a heat exchanger (metal tile):

image.thumb.png.92c2612f87ec2e84c85654cee668af43.png

Aha! Thanks, I'll try this.

19 minutes ago, trukogre said:

"The problem is that tempshift plates aren't conducting heat directly to the pipe, opposed to what I would expect them to do. It looks like tempshift plates for now only exchanges heat with tiles, doors, gases and liquids around (3x3) and not buildings or pipes."

Not sure why you expected otherwise. Pipes don't even conduct heat with neighboring pipe segments, so this is consistent with that.

Well, because I didn't know that pipes don't conduct heat. Obviously.

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I also got a feeling that the pipes are not made out of granite.

For the record, the pipes do conduct heat. However, it only does so with the gas and "walk" tiles. The gas on its turn conducts heat with all of its surroundings, including the temp shift tiles. Carbondioxide isn't a very great conductor of heat. But more importantly is the resource you used for the pipes. Granite is hands down the best material to conduct heat for gas pipes (as we sadly cannot use metals). Igneous Rock however is a lot worse, and usually that will be the standard selected material (given it is the most common resource).

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13 minutes ago, trukogre said:

"It's a special structure for heat distribution, it could be different than pipes :p"

It could have been anything, but the question was why would you have expected different, not what it could have been.

It seems I'm not the only one that thought the pipe or building with a tempshift plate at the same cell would increase heat exchange with each other, that was also the first use for them that came into my mind when I first saw them.

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35 minutes ago, Hyperlynx said:

 

Well, because I didn't know that pipes don't conduct heat. Obviously.

That question was directed at someone else. Obviously. :)

 

16 minutes ago, Etiam said:

It seems I'm not the only one that thought the pipe or building with a tempshift plate at the same cell would increase heat exchange with each other, that was also the first use for them that came into my mind when I first saw them.

I couldn't agree more.

Temp shift plates are so funny  Apparently Klei was like, we should put something in game to help exchange heat.  What do they use in the real world to exchange heat?  heat exchangers...hm, those are real and useful and fairly simple.  Let's make temp shift plates instead.  We can make them unrealistic and unintuitive and made out of diamonds.  They'll never see that coming.  And it's true, we didn't.

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32 minutes ago, trukogre said:

That question was directed at someone else. Obviously. :)

My bad, I meant to quote your other smartarse remark, which was directed at me:

2 hours ago, trukogre said:

but the plate IS the same temperature as the gas in the room, this is working exactly as you would expect but you're still surprised?

 

1 hour ago, turbonl64 said:

I also got a feeling that the pipes are not made out of granite.

For the record, the pipes do conduct heat. However, it only does so with the gas and "walk" tiles. The gas on its turn conducts heat with all of its surroundings, including the temp shift tiles. Carbondioxide isn't a very great conductor of heat. But more importantly is the resource you used for the pipes. Granite is hands down the best material to conduct heat for gas pipes (as we sadly cannot use metals). Igneous Rock however is a lot worse, and usually that will be the standard selected material (given it is the most common resource).

Hm. In which case, I should be able to direct granite pipes through gold metal tiles to have them behave as radiators, right?

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6 minutes ago, Hyperlynx said:

My bad, I meant to quote your other smartarse remark, which was directed at me:

 

Pointing out that two numbers are in fact equal is "smartarse"?  How can such simple math be seen to have 'attitude'?  Oh well. Good luck with your colony :)

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the last tempshiftplate is touching the door, so you are also trying to cool the door which might be counterproductive atm since the temp outside of the door is high.

 

also, make the gas pipes go back and forth in the room. they have rather little surface area in the room to cool with, as you cant make gas pipes out of metals they all have rather bad heat transfer so maximize the area is necessary. 

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2 minutes ago, Hyperlynx said:

Hm. In which case, I should be able to direct granite pipes through gold metal tiles to have them behave as radiators, right?

Not necessary in the setup provided by Ethiam, but a good solution in your current one. The solution made by Ethiam has the cold gas reacting with the metal tiles in a direct way instead of an intermediary with pipes.

I do think Ethiam's solution is better. Not necessarily that it cools better, but you have much more control over the temperature. When your room has reach the requested temperature, the hydrogen in the pipes will still continue to cool down the room, which might end up being too cold. Ethiam's solution will allow you to pump away the hydrogen once the room is cool enough.

Also a good little rhyme with gas pipes in general:

-Do you want the cold to bite, then use granite.

-Do you want to ignore the heat, use abyssalite.

-And if you don't care, use whatever you want with flair.

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