The Learning Curve...

[The Luck Duck]

Okay I love this game but it has one pretty big problem. Without a guide which is the way many people (including me) play most games, this game has a steep cliff. Not literally but there is a point in the game where you need to switch to a better power supply other than generators and that's where the "cliff" is. Once you get into the later game a stampede of new big threats attack you at the same time (Heat, resources, running out of water) making it nearly impossible to sustain the first few times you play. Sure the game is around the type of die learn repeat which I am perfectly fine with but when you die too many times at the same spot things get problematic. Now I am not saying make the game easier. I would just like a bit more substance in-between these points.

The thing that's worrying me the most though  is each new update. The past 3 updates have been adding more end game content. I know that's what most people want as before there was little depth to all of the game's functions but a good game needs to have a sustaining neck to support end game from the early game. I am not a game designer so the best thing I could think of is more options to deal with these threats or maybe a more encouraging view of the outer spawn to help players be willing to not huddle in their depleting spawn forever. 

[Coolthulhu]

It seems a common opinion on the forums that Klei will balance things once the game is close to release. I haven't seen any dev actually comment on this so it might be optimism rather than realism.

At the moment the game has a bunch of noob traps that new players need to unlearn - most notably algae terrarium (biggest water hog out there, also inefficient) and microbe musher food (water hog if used as main calorie source). Careful balancing would easily fix problems like this.

The other new player problem is algae. The terrarium causes water problems but doesn't fix algae problems. The new research tree can be a bit overwhelming - experienced players know that going for electrolyzer is almost necessary, new ones will probably lose a few times before figuring that out.

Nerfing electrolyzer and buffing terrarium would do a lot to make the game more manageable for new players while also harder for experienced ones.

With oxygen provided by electrolyzers and food by raw meal lice, the initial water stores can easily last for 200 cycles.

[SkunkMaster]

40 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

xperienced players know that going for electrolyzer is almost necessary, new ones will probably lose a few times before figuring that out.

That thing can not only power it self, but keep a healthy base powered. 

 

Small beginner tip, if you want a ez game, lock down geysers.

Water geyser will give you all the water you need, germ free. And the NG geysers give you energy and germy poluted water. But so much energy you wont know what to do with it, and the worst part ? you can plug a few fertilizer machines to the output of the NG generators and make even more power... So, i don't know bro, but i have a tendency to restart the colonies at 2-300 cycles in because it just get's too easy. Maybe that's just me ? 

 

Also i don't lock down geysers if i can avoid it, i feel they are TOO strong at this current momment. - there are a million ways to deal with all the problems you encounter in the game, from passive to active cooling, from morb farms to electrolyzers for oxygen and so on and so forth.

 

Play the game, try out all the ways you can deal with the various problems you face and figure out what suits your style of play the best. You don't know how to deal with a specific problem ? go youtube, both "Hello Lacy" and "Brothgar" are VERY explainatory around their testing and methods for dealing with various problems. - also good source for inspiration

[The Luck Duck]

On 12/10/2017 at 3:21 PM, SkunkMaster said:

That thing can not only power it self, but keep a healthy base powered. 

 

Small beginner tip, if you want a ez game, lock down geysers.

Water geyser will give you all the water you need, germ free. And the NG geysers give you energy and germy poluted water. But so much energy you wont know what to do with it, and the worst part ? you can plug a few fertilizer machines to the output of the NG generators and make even more power... So, i don't know bro, but i have a tendency to restart the colonies at 2-300 cycles in because it just get's too easy. Maybe that's just me ? 

 

Also i don't lock down geysers if i can avoid it, i feel they are TOO strong at this current momment. - there are a million ways to deal with all the problems you encounter in the game, from passive to active cooling, from morb farms to electrolyzers for oxygen and so on and so forth.

 

Play the game, try out all the ways you can deal with the various problems you face and figure out what suits your style of play the best. You don't know how to deal with a specific problem ? go youtube, both "Hello Lacy" and "Brothgar" are VERY explainatory around their testing and methods for dealing with various problems. - also good source for inspiration

I think hotter geyser water would be a good nerf for them. Forcing you to cool them down or else your base will be toasted

[Hechicera]

I have some general purpose feedback on early/mid game pacing and also challenge via obfuscation vs challenge via discovery. I though about making a thread for that, but maybe they both can be blanketed under "learning curve". For background, I'm new to ONI, but a longtime player of survival and builder games including Klei's other DS & DST. I'm on my 13th colony set-up run, and all the last ones are stable. But I am still learning.

- The early pacing is off in the balance between building, discovery and research. Some examples:

 Heat Buildup dictates you find cold biomes soon and make at least some strategic use of them. The exosuits are often researched by then and would be super useful, but it is more of a pain than fun to grab the iron and pump them out the checkpoints, then set up even more power to throw oxygen into them. The exosuits are great, but you need to put the power in the cold biome to set up the suits to go into the cold biome comfortably, So I ignore them for the early/mid game, but I wish it made sense to use them. But if I don't wait my base gets too hot.

The automation branch. Another set of neat tools (and I used to teach introductory circuits in college, so very geeky to me). Not touched them yet. Again, I can do every thing better in the early/mid game without worrying about refining the metal. Gets me in the same issues with heat and exosuits. It is better to use manual switches/valves and sneaker-net. It actually reminds me a lot of the very real pitfall on a job to offer an over-engineered solution.

It would be good if early heat management was more forgiving, or the research tree was rearranged. Power is too restricted early game to make setting up many things useful. Power is again, mostly restricted due to heat. Yes, I know there are heatsinks eventually, but that put you in the same loop of you need to go into the cold biomes and set up the stuff to set up the stuff to get to the cold biomes. I know some of this comes together when you push into the petroleum biomes, so this is early/mid game pace feedback only.

- Some items are not useful. The hydrofan being one of them right now is a further balance aggravation in early/mid game.

- I enjoy learning and restarting in survival games, but right now ONI make you learn things that I think are unrealistically obfuscated.

The prime example of this is equipment where the output is at a fixed temperature. In my case the first I ran into was the water sieve. If the building stays that way, I can manage. I did not find it fun though to have to use google after studying all my input/output, machine and backing tile temperatures to figure out why. The machine's output volume is listed, why not temp.