Compact-no-heat Natural gas Setup (2 geysers)

[eloy2030]

Hey, I wanted to show my setup for natural gas power generation.

Features:

-Compact (as much as this monstrosity could be)

-Auto-cooling _ No heat leaves the build (Zero heat impact to the rest of the colony - No overheating)

Feeds:

-2 Natural gas geysers

-1 steam geyser

Buildings:

-17 Natural gas generators

-25 Fertilizer synthetisers

-4 carbon skimmers

-11 liquid pumps

-3 gas pumps

Products:

- Around 8.1 Kw/s (4.86 Mw/cycle) -Really, this is the only product (aside from around 180 g/s of carbon that the skimmers are unable to filter - I wanted to limit the input of water to 1 steam geyser)

-5.13 ks/s of polluted water

-1380 g/s of Carbon dioxide

 

The build:

Heat Screen:

Wires:

Pipes:

Vent:

Cooling system: (This handles all the cooling - If it gets too hot(above 50 C , it sends some water to the synthesizers and some new, cooler water from the generators comes in)

Power report: (note that around 100 kj are being used in cooling, some cycles spikes to 200 kj, some down to 50)

 

Well, I hope you enjoyed it!

Tell me what you think!

[Byste]

Congrats on coming up with a design you like.

Some critique for improving on this:

• I would recommend sending your CO2 to slicksters instead of skimmers, you get more out of it that way using oil pathways which also create natural gas, polluted water, and ultimately power (I personally run one air skimmer for cooling purposes, but I know it's sub-optimal so I wouldn't recommend it).
• I didn't look super closely but it looks like you use a significant amount of power for cooling that definitely could be circumvented with some better design + wheezeworts. For example, if you can get your generators cold by keeping them in hydrogen gas with a couple wheezeworts, then they put out cold polluted water, which is just free energy for keeping the rest of your system cold.
• You also waste a lot of power with pumps when you could just cascade all that water down and collect it at the bottom with one pump, not to mention all the cooling you get out of dripping that polluted water.

Personally, I also prefer not dedicating all of my polluted water and a lot of water toward a massive power plant. I recognize this is a playstyle choice so you're quite welcome to disregard this entirely, but I find it much more interesting to use such resources in other ways, such as in the oil pathways or for more fun food than braindead meal lice. Not to mention I can't find meaningful ways to use all that extra power, and I'm sure that goes for most people.

Lastly, please don't take it the wrong way, but I sincerely hope this becomes irrelevant in 3 days when the next preview branch should be available. People have been doing this since natgas geysers were introduced in AU, and while it's funny to see how much power you can create, there needs to be stronger demands on water/polluted water that make doing builds like this more of a sacrifice. I'm looking very hard at food.

[eloy2030]

First of all I want to say that I don´t take any of your comments badly, on the contrary, aside from showing of, this exactly what I wanted.

6 hours ago, Byste said:

Congrats on coming up with a design you like.

Thanks!, That was mainly the idea!

 

6 hours ago, Byste said:

I would recommend sending your CO2 to slicksters instead of skimmers, you get more out of it that way using oil pathways which also create natural gas, polluted water, and ultimately power (I personally run one air skimmer for cooling purposes, but I know it's sub-optimal so I wouldn't recommend it).

The difference in power is abyssal. My way u get a total of 8.1 KJ/s. Slickster way only 4.78 KJ/s.

7 hours ago, Byste said:

• I didn't look super closely but it looks like you use a significant amount of power for cooling that definitely could be circumvented with some better design + wheezeworts. For example, if you can get your generators cold by keeping them in hydrogen gas with a couple wheezeworts, then they put out cold polluted water, which is just free energy for keeping the rest of your system cold.
• You also waste a lot of power with pumps when you could just cascade all that water down and collect it at the bottom with one pump, not to mention all the cooling you get out of dripping that polluted water.

The power ¨wasted¨ on cooling the whole thing is around 300 w/s which is around 4% of the total power production. While it would be more efficient with worts, I Kinda liked to be able to control the temp and personally think that it looks cool! XD

 

7 hours ago, Byste said:

Personally, I also prefer not dedicating all of my polluted water and a lot of water toward a massive power plant. I recognize this is a playstyle choice so you're quite welcome to disregard this entirely, but I find it much more interesting to use such resources in other ways, such as in the oil pathways or for more fun food than braindead meal lice. Not to mention I can't find meaningful ways to use all that extra power, and I'm sure that goes for most people.

 Made bases that used pure Ph2o oxygen production, that fed 24 dupes stuffed berries and distilled all the polluted water generated into clean water via boilers (around 6kg/s). Yeah, totally agree with you, but this wasn´t about play style, I made this in debug, I just wanted to see how compact and efficient I could do it.

On the power side, I sometimes need more than 15 KJ/s. 8.1 does not seem that much. And I think many people run the same scenario.

 

7 hours ago, Byste said:

Lastly, please don't take it the wrong way, but I sincerely hope this becomes irrelevant in 3 days when the next preview branch should be available. People have been doing this since natgas geysers were introduced in AU, and while it's funny to see how much power you can create, there needs to be stronger demands on water/polluted water that make doing builds like this more of a sacrifice. I'm looking very hard at food.

I´d love to see some of these if you could paste me a link or something.

In this link I started a post about the next update

As you can see, my thoughts on food exactly, I really hope food starts being more of complex pros/cons thing with different food giving different options, like I feed my runners this, and my ¨tech¨ dupes that (instead of I-make-meal-because-I-don-have-anything-else-until-I-have-this-one-better) opposed to the I grow food like I build tiles it is now.

 

Well, thanks again and I cya around!

 

[Coolthulhu]

If you create perfect vacuum in the generator chamber before pumping any polluted water in, the water will not offgas and then you could scrap that pure water layer on top.

[eloy2030]

9 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

If you create perfect vacuum in the generator chamber before pumping any polluted water in, the water will not offgas and then you could scrap that pure water layer on top.

That´s perfect! 

I´ll re do it with that change.

Tks!

 

EDIT: Problem is, If you had to build it with dupes, it would be impossible for them to enter and deconstruct the pump after without breaking the vacuum. Or am I missing something? I can always leave the pump, but that would feel ¨impure¨.XD

[Byste]

43 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

The difference in power is abyssal. My way u get a total of 8.1 KJ/s. Slickster way only 4.78 KJ/s.

The difference is also that  you lose equal amounts water to whatever polluted water you create, whereas with a slickster you only gain net resources. That's why I would recommend it. If power is literally the only metric you're concerned with, then you're forgetting that clean water is still power by sticking it into oil wells: every 1000g of clean water = about 770g of polluted water + lots of extra power via natgas generators, oil refineries, petroleum generators, and slicksters, (not even talking about running that polluted water into fertilizer makers for even more power) so there's always something good to be doing with your clean water, even if you don't use it for electrolyzers or food.

43 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

Made bases that used pure Ph2o oxygen production, that fed 24 dupes stuffed berries and distilled all the polluted water generated into clean water via boilers (around 6kg/s).

 

I might be misreading this but are you claiming to do all 3 of these things concurrently in a single save on the latest patch? Because I would have to call ********. Heck, even the stuffed berries alone is currently impossible unless you use the trick to grow the bristle blossoms in natural tiles (nondomestic). The irrigation required for blossoms alone would be 15.36kg/s and you only get 8.39kg/s from steam geysers, and then you need an additional 9.24kg/s of polluted water for the pincha peppers. I've been trying to run a base that produces stuffed berries and I'm constantly running into a wall of deficit water and polluted water, by my calculations I won't be able to feed more than 5 dupes/day with stuffed berries while still operating my aquatuner boiler. It's legitimately ridiculous.

If you did the berry thing back in AU, then I understand completely, you could get away with a lot of things back then due to crazy quantities of resources at our disposal and the po2 not being consumed bug. If you were just citing these projects to demonstrate breadth of knowledge, I gotchu.

43 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

The power ¨wasted¨ on cooling the whole thing is around 300 w/s which is around 4% of the total power production. While it would be more efficient with worts, I Kinda liked to be able to control the temp and personally think that it looks cool! XD

Sure, I'm just saying that you can spend ~240 watts on it, period, by getting the generators cold and using that cold pH2O to keep everything else cool. No aquatuners necessary, probably only 1 pump needed just to feed the fert makers. Adjust wattage as necessary for however much water that is you're pumping, I'm not gonna bother checking.

43 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

I´d love to see some of these if you could paste me a link or something.

The first time I personally saw a system like this was Brothgar's video on it, here's the link. Guess that was June 17th, it was during AU when we first got natgas geysers. I think AU went live at the end of May, so it was about 3 weeks into the patch? It's not a good source for copying anymore, of course, since geyser gas rates were changed, but I think it was the first video of its kind and it demonstrates how to optimize well as well as how to do the calculations. I keep a similar spreadsheet these days and just update it each patch, it's very powerful for theorizing yields and rates.

43 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

In this link I started a post about the next update

 

I also posted in that thread =)

[eloy2030]

5 minutes ago, Byste said:

If you did the berry thing back in AU, then I understand completely, you could get away with a lot of things back then due to crazy quantities of resources at our disposal and the po2 not being consumed bug. If you were just citing these projects to demonstrate breadth of knowledge, I gotchu.

Yeah, Thats pretty much it.

 

6 minutes ago, Byste said:

The first time I personally saw a system like this was Brothgar's video on it, here's the link. Guess that was June 17th, it was during AU when we first got natgas geysers. I think AU went live at the end of May, so it was about 3 weeks into the patch?

I wasn´t claiming to make a build about power generation, it was more about fitting and aesthetics. And the fact (this is it for the most part) that it doesn´t produce any heat. Most of the build I´ve seen heat the base, overheat or relies on dripping (is that still a thing?) which I find an exploit. As for worts, they freeze the thing or (eventually) heats up.

 

12 minutes ago, Byste said:

I also posted in that thread =)

oh! yeah! now I remember! a lot of cool data there!

Looks like we think alike in terms of what is (and should be) coming!

[Byste]

11 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

I wasn´t claiming to make a build about power generation, it was more about fitting and aesthetics. And the fact (this is it for the most part) that it doesn´t produce any heat. Most of the build I´ve seen heat the base, overheat or relies on dripping (is that still a thing?) which I find an exploit. As for worts, they freeze the thing or (eventually) heats up.

Hey, mostly quoting you because I edited my previous comment pretty heavily and I added more info re: slicksters you would probably find helpful.

But just to clarify, I know you know you're not the first one to do this, it's still a nice video just for the demonstration since he comes up with the theory, tries to implement it, then makes a bunch of revisions to optimize. It's a very scientific approach and I still think it has merit in that regard.

Also, worts don't force a system to one exteme or another, they stabilize with the environment just fine. The drip cool bug is fixed afaik, it's just the power of liquid cooling that keeps everything stable. You could definitely look at it as "exploity" since you get free energy, but it's kind of impossible not to get free energy with closed system builds, one way or another you're deleting whatever heat your liquid picks up. This just takes more advantage of that + the fact that natgas generator's pH2O output isn't fixed like some other machinery.

[eloy2030]

5 minutes ago, Byste said:

But just to clarify, I know you know you're not the first one to do this, it's still a nice video just for the demonstration since he comes up with the theory, tries to implement it, then makes a bunch of revisions to optimize. It's a very scientific approach and I still think it has merit in that regard.

Also, worts don't force a system to one exteme or another, they stabilize with the environment just fine. The drip cool bug is fixed afaik, it's just the power of liquid cooling that keeps everything stable. You could definitely look at it as "exploity" since you get free energy, but it's kind of impossible not to get free energy with closed system builds, one way or another you're deleting whatever heat your liquid picks up. This just takes more advantage of that + the fact that natgas generator's pH2O output isn't fixed like some other machinery.

Brothgar is the best!

Don´t worts cool down to -60 C ? I´ve reache the temp with them many times, mostly cooling thermoregulators...

[Byste]

2 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

Brothgar is the best!

Don´t worts cool down to -60 C ? I´ve reache the temp with them many times, mostly cooling thermoregulators...

I know we bash the wiki on the forums all the time, but in this case it's still very accurate. Here ya go. TL;DR: they cool up to 1kg/s of ambient gas by a flat factor of 5° C, which means your cooling mileage varies based on that gas's specific heat and conductivity. Natgas will drop in temperature the fastest, but as far as real heat goes, wheezeworts cool the most in hydrogen.

So yeah a wort could theoretically cool down further and further til it stifles itself (like if you put it in an abyssalite chamber with nothing else but some gas), but usually there's things around it adding heat too, so you'll reach some sort of equilibrium with the surroundings.

[eloy2030]

2 minutes ago, Byste said:

So yeah a wort could theoretically cool down further and further til it stifles itself (like if you put it in an abyssalite chamber with nothing else but some gas), but usually there's things around it adding heat too, so you'll reach some sort of equilibrium with the surroundings.

I´m not really good at math, but it seems to me that it should go down or up. 

If it it is cooling more than the things adding heat, it will go down, if not up... seems like the logical thing to me.

[Byste]

9 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

I´m not really good at math, but it seems to me that it should go down or up. 

If it it is cooling more than the things adding heat, it will go down, if not up... seems like the logical thing to me.

You're correct: if it is cooling more than the immediate surroundings are gaining heat, then the local temperature will drop. This is a local effect and heat dissipates, so if you've got a growing cold zone it's interacting with more heat, and that heat will counterbalance the wort at some point, resulting in an equilibrium at a lower temperature than without the wort, but it won't just keep dropping forever. Also perhaps whatever is being cooled is being moved or consumed. Things tend to be in flux, especially in cooling systems.

[eloy2030]

2 minutes ago, Byste said:

You're correct: if it is cooling more than the immediate surroundings are gaining heat, then the local temperature will drop. This is a local effect and heat dissipates, so if you've got a growing cold zone it's interacting with more heat, and that heat will counterbalance the wort at some point, resulting in an equilibrium at a lower temperature than without the wort, but it won't just keep dropping forever.

suppose the wort cools the gas 5 C (depending on the gas it will be more or less w/s) and that the equipment is generating, also, some w/s, wouldn´t those two add each other? I mean, if wort is generating, lets say, -10 w/s and the equipment 5 w/s, wouldn´t the system be generating -5 w/s, Resulting in getting to -60 C at some point?

[Byste]

11 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

suppose the wort cools the gas 5 C (depending on the gas it will be more or less w/s) and that the equipment is generating, also, some w/s, wouldn´t those two add each other? I mean, if wort is generating, lets say, -10 w/s and the equipment 5 w/s, wouldn´t the system be generating -5 w/s, Resulting in getting to -60 C at some point?

Yeah, if you've got a wort paired with a powered battery in some hydrogen gas in a small to-size abyssalite chamber, you've got an excess of cooling that will keep dropping in temp until the wort stifles itself. It might take a long time, just because of the mass of the wort and the mass of the battery. It generally doesn't work that way though because you've got more atmosphere and more mass and lots of things can change and move and get consumed. (and there are more heat sources that are simply a bit further away)

[eloy2030]

7 minutes ago, Byste said:

Yeah, if you've got a wort paired with a powered battery in some hydrogen gas in a small to-size abyssalite chamber, you've got an excess of cooling that will keep dropping in temp until the wort stifles itself. It might take a long time, just because of the mass of the wort and the mass of the battery. It generally doesn't work that way though because you've got more atmosphere and more mass and lots of things can change and move and get consumed.

Yeah, like carbon, nat gas and ph2o being created...

To the point, I just like it better when I know how much heat the thing will produce. Besides, like I said in the first answer, it´s just 300 w/s from 8.1 kw/s and, for example, it would take a lot of worts to cool the skimmers part (I think?).

To end, this IS a closed system so... after a few 100 cycles it could freeze or overheat, I just dont know with worts (though, I suppose, with a little patience I could do the math for that to)

[Byste]

14 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

it´s just 300 w/s from 8.1 kw/s

By the way do you mean J/s? Because watts are per second.

14 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

it would take a lot of worts to cool the skimmers part (I think?).

To end, this IS a closed system so... after a few 100 cycles it could freeze or overheat, I just dont know with worts (though, I suppose, with a little patience I could do the math for that to)

It could take 0 worts to cool a skimmer if you drip its water onto itself then pump that water away to a fertilizer maker. This is why "closed system" is misleading -- your system is isolated from the rest of the base and it handles its own outputs, but it is not the same situation as a box with a wort and a battery, because you are creating and deleting material inside that nullifies its heat (or cold). So you don't have to worry about your system freezing over or overheating after x many cycles, because it will never happen -- it will reach an equilibrium. Just experiment around and you'll see what I mean. If you don't want to use them, it's obviously your game so play it as you like, I'm just trying to help you understand how they work.

[eloy2030]

11 minutes ago, Byste said:

By the way do you mean J/s? Because watts are per second.

23 minutes ago, eloy2030 said:

Yeah.

 

11 minutes ago, Byste said:

It could take 0 worts to cool a skimmer if you drip its water onto itself then pump that water away to a fertilizer maker. This is why "closed system" is misleading -- your system is isolated from the rest of the base and it handles its own outputs, but it is not the same situation as a box with a wort and a battery, because you are creating and deleting material inside that nullifies its heat (or cold). So you don't have to worry about your system freezing over or overheating after x many cycles, because it will never happen -- it will reach an equilibrium. Just experiment around and you'll see what I mean. If you don't want to use them, it's obviously your game so play it as you like, I'm just trying to help you understand how they work.

I wont argue on this topic anymore, because I really dont know (Though, what you say, its not my experience)

have a look at this post

Though it may no longer be valid...

[eloy2030]

10 hours ago, Byste said:

I would recommend sending your CO2 to slicksters instead of skimmers, you get more out of it that way using oil pathways which also create natural gas, polluted water, and ultimately power (I personally run one air skimmer for cooling purposes, but I know it's sub-optimal so I wouldn't recommend it).

I think I just understood what you meant by that. If you mean using that same clean water on an oil well would give more power, then yeah, It would give more thatn double: 900 w vs 2100 w. 

Again, this was about making this whole...

[Byste]

@eloy2030 Self cooling is not hard with a carbon skimmer because it has a fixed temperature output. Brothgar's video demonstrates that and that's still valid, it's not the glitchy drip cooling it's just actual liquid cooling. Rain that 40° C water down along with your generator water and it cools down all your machinery, then pump it into the fert makers to destroy it. Fert makers might require extra cooling with so many of them, I'm not sure, but back when I was building the large power plants (in AU) I had 16 of them and they didn't overheat without any effort to cool them down -- the heat gets conducted away via piping out the natural gas to the generators. That's also what I was referring to when I said I had one air skimmer for cooling.

I've since removed that skimmer to feed the CO2 to slicksters, the cooling is entirely done by my toilets/showers and algae distiller now. So it isn't isolated, but frankly I don't care because it's just my personal playthrough. I also use a wheezewort next to my petroleum generator because they put out so much heat. Personal base current setup screenshots are in the spoiler. It gets me about an average of 9.1 KW but it's a bit hard to say since it fluctuates. My energy demands are pretty close to there, I do drain my battery bank a bit from time to time but I've always had enough power (I also have 2 coal generators with my slicksters), and this is while running a double aquatuner + double tepidizer boiler, haha. I don't think many people do silly stuff like that, and I'm only tapping 1 oil well + 4 fertilizer makers.

Anyway what I'm talking about with using some worts to cool the generators to rain a bunch of free cold water can be seen on Eadra's stream for example. Here's the timestamped vod of when she's starting to turn on her generators after a lengthy period of actually setting it up. Here's a better timestamp to see what it properly looks like. She had 3 wheezeworts in there to cool it down originally, then went in later to deconstruct 2 because it was too cold. Hydrogen gas at the top to make the cooling extra effective. As she explains shortly into the second link, the heat came from the tiles (she pumped that chamber to a vacuum, then added in some polluted oxygen after building stuff inside it).

Spoiler

 

 

 

[eloy2030]

8 hours ago, Byste said:

 

@eloy2030 Self cooling is not hard with a carbon skimmer because it has a fixed temperature output. Brothgar's video demonstrates that and that's still valid, it's not the glitchy drip cooling it's just actual liquid cooling. Rain that 40° C water down along with your generator water and it cools down all your machinery, then pump it into the fert makers to destroy it. Fert makers might require extra cooling with so many of them, I'm not sure, but back when I was building the large power plants (in AU) I had 16 of them and they didn't overheat without any effort to cool them down -- the heat gets conducted away via piping out the natural gas to the generators. That's also what I was referring to when I said I had one air skimmer for cooling.

I've since removed that skimmer to feed the CO2 to slicksters, the cooling is entirely done by my toilets/showers and algae distiller now. So it isn't isolated, but frankly I don't care because it's just my personal playthrough. I also use a wheezewort next to my petroleum generator because they put out so much heat. Personal base current setup screenshots are in the spoiler. It gets me about an average of 9.1 KW but it's a bit hard to say since it fluctuates. My energy demands are pretty close to there, I do drain my battery bank a bit from time to time but I've always had enough power (I also have 2 coal generators with my slicksters), and this is while running a double aquatuner + double tepidizer boiler, haha. I don't think many people do silly stuff like that, and I'm only tapping 1 oil well + 4 fertilizer makers.

Anyway what I'm talking about with using some worts to cool the generators to rain a bunch of free cold water can be seen on Eadra's stream for example. Here's the timestamped vod of when she's starting to turn on her generators after a lengthy period of actually setting it up. Here's a better timestamp to see what it properly looks like. She had 3 wheezeworts in there to cool it down originally, then went in later to deconstruct 2 because it was too cold. Hydrogen gas at the top to make the cooling extra effective. As she explains shortly into the second link, the heat came from the tiles (she pumped that chamber to a vacuum, then added in some polluted oxygen after building stuff inside it).

 

How are you only tapping 1 oil well and 4 fert and getting 9 kw? By my acount it should give you about 2 kw, what am i missing?

thats why I dont like worts, U never know what u get out of them.

 

ps. I´m running the build only with worts now, get back to u with the results.

 

Edit: Taking a closer look at the system... in the end, you were right about the worts... no part of it could hurt from going -60C (apart from nat gen I could cool with skimmers). Still, being that is so little power, I like the aquatuners better, but that´s just me.

 

Edit2: Closer look 2 --- apparently nor the skimmers nor the fetilizers need cooling at all... Well, I suppose I´ve learned something today... tks!

[Byste]

5 hours ago, eloy2030 said:

How are you only tapping 1 oil well and 4 fert and getting 9 kw? By my acount it should give you about 2 kw, what am i missing?

I kind of assumed it went without saying, but I also am using both natgas geysers. That plus the fert makers, oil well, and oil refinery is enough natgas to run 7-8 natgas generators, and the petroleum generator a decent amount. I also have 2 hydrogen generators running intermittently off electrolyzer air, and 2 coal generators that mostly exist to create CO2 for slicksters. So yeah, some days are more power than others, I think ~550KJ generated per cycle is close-ish to the average so that's where I got 9.1KW from. Maybe I'm overestimating. My coal supply is dwindling a bit if I don't make a point of feeding hatches so I should probably set up a mealwood hatch terrarium for more sustainable coal. I'd also like to eliminate my electrolyzers if I can get an efficient LOX condenser with enough throughput to sustain my colony, that will reduce my power a lot in the short term between losing the hydrogen generators and powering the LOX but in return I can operate another oil well so I think it's worth it. I'm going to try it out, anyway, no idea if it will work  I'm kind of just messing around until the preview becomes available.

5 hours ago, eloy2030 said:

thats why I dont like worts, U never know what u get out of them.

 

ps. I´m running the build only with worts now, get back to u with the results.

 

Edit: Taking a closer look at the system... in the end, you were right about the worts... no part of it could hurt from going -60C (apart from nat gen I could cool with skimmers). Still, being that is so little power, I like the aquatuners better, but that´s just me.

 

Edit2: Closer look 2 --- apparently nor the skimmers nor the fetilizers need cooling at all... Well, I suppose I´ve learned something today... tks!

I'm glad you figured out new stuff, hope it helps when you try to build your power plants in normal gameplay. Just a word of caution that I've had skimmers with high uptime and low gas pressure overheat without adequate cooling, but by dripping just a bit of water on them it usually solves all the trouble. As can be said for pretty much any machine, haha.

[eloy2030]

3 hours ago, Byste said:

I'm glad you figured out new stuff, hope it helps when you try to build your power plants in normal gameplay. Just a word of caution that I've had skimmers with high uptime and low gas pressure overheat without adequate cooling, but by dripping just a bit of water on them it usually solves all the trouble. As can be said for pretty much any machine, haha.

yeah, the most important part is keeping the generators cool ii seems, as they will set the temp of the co2. Also, as u said, keep the pressure up.

also, I DONT LIKE DRIPPING! ...of polluted water (EDIT)