[suggestion ]About ship wrecked difficulty

[4zakken]

Hi everyone ! i Wana talk about shipwrecked difficulty and the mastering cap.

I saw many people who are complaining about one thing , the game is to easy , this feature or this item is OP etc etc. Ok , i can understand this , and many people who said that have actually a level "master / grand master" in this game. And i can understand this kind of player can be bored.

But , what about new players , what about people who test this game and said " fack , i am out , it's to difficult and its annoying me " ... As far as i am concerned , i tryed to enrolled some friends in this game , and most of them just .... give up.

Personaly , i think balance this game is kind of an hellway , because you need to find an equilibrium between to easy and damn difficult. In ROG , we have the sand box feature , for more challenge , but i think it is not enaugh.

What i have in mind is to add to the sand box option , a way to affect some feature like damage taken , hunger , sanity and craft recipe, by add a multiplicator for them. For exemple , you can add an 1.5 multiplicator for damage taken , 1.2 for hunger , 1.8 for sanity etc etc ...

I think it will be an awesome add to the sand box menu , and the game can be harder and harder as far as you master the game , without penalize the new players.

What do you think about this suggestion ?

[grekon]

Response/Guide

The new players should play the base game and not SW. There are guides out there although after reading some, I find them a little bit awkward. This game should have an official guide section somewhere. That would help new players more than making game easy.

I too tried to pull one of my friends into DST and I have to say it was half a success. He found the game very fun besides one detail. He was dying without my guidance and he hated that. (sometimes though I died on purpose to see how he does XD). I wanted to acclimatize him into this "die a lot" game but he wasn't that type of gamer. Conclusion: If your friends are not prepared to die at least 10 times in this game and lose their worlds they aren't cut out for this game.

Also when playing the game just give your friends suggestion instead of trying to teach them everything. Show them the basics and leave them at that. (don't play with more than 2 newbie friends at the same time as well.)

Here's what I taught my friend:

1. Basic resources that you should always carry: grass, twigs, logs, flint
2. Secondary resources for the base building and what not: gold, rocks, silk, pig skin, hound's tooth.
3. Rabbits and berries are good source of food. Make backpack, log suit, spear.

The rest I left for him to discover or for him to ask me. Now he is still playing... with cheats

SW should be difficult. DONT SPARE THESE ROOKIES! GIVE THEM A TRIAL BY FIRE AND DEATH!!!

 

 

[4zakken]

1 hour ago, grekon said:

SW should be difficult. DONT SPARE THIS ROOKIES! GIVE THEM TRIAL BY FIRE AND DEATH!!!

Ok , ok , i get it XD.  But , would you like an option for setting an multiplicator on your damage taken for exemple ?

[PhelsarusBeel]

7 minutes ago, 4zakken said:

Ok , ok , i get it XD.  But , would you like an option for setting an multiplicator on your damage taken for exemple ?

That's what Wolfgang and Wigfrid are for. If you want combat to be easier you choose the chars that are build around it.

Also SW just like RoG is an extension of the basegame and heck RoG clearly states that you should be familiar with the basics before playing it and i expect SW to be on the same side of things.

And in terms of Sandbox well we already got Worldgenoptions. Not in SW atm mind you but in RoG and the basegame you can switch the worldsettings to your liking. Heck i did this a lot when i started out always slightly increasing the things that favour my survival (Berrys, Beefalos, Rabbits etc.) while lowering things that lead to an early demise (Tentacles, Hounds, Spiders, etc.). And after i played for a while with those options and understood the basics i went raw into the RoG worlds (although i need to say that i play DS since 2012 when Worldgen wasn't a thing).

So basicly the Newcommers should not expect anything less from an Extension to an already difficult game other then it being harder then the Basecontent.

[grekon]

37 minutes ago, 4zakken said:

Ok , ok , i get it XD.  But , would you like an option for setting an multiplicator on your damage taken for exemple ?

Wes.

Edit: Not needed. Wes as I already stated fills that role. Additional multiplicator could be added through mods.

The essential is to have more ways to die basically. For example now we have poison, drowning, volcano eruptions. Well they just have to add more. More threatening mobs, important resources protected by mobs, new attackers besides hounds. New ways to deal with the threats. You know...

[4zakken]

@Mr.P: Well , maybe i misstell something. I wana say , i will love an feature to set MORE damage you take ( not talking about more damage you deal , i know wigfried and wolfgang do more damage , i am talking to add more difficulty , not reduce it XD ).

@grekon: yhea i know that , i just wana add some options for add difficulty by not altered the world generation in the sand box by just " add more spider , add more hounds ". By the way , wes ... no , for me , i don't like his sprite , andf he have no perks i like , i wana play with warly but taking more dame , and a little more sanity drain for exemple. Mods ? not a good solution , mods need to be maintain by his creator and cause many issues in the game. That's why i suggest this. Playing wes is not the solution to have an entertaining gameplay in an harder way to play.

[Urfable]

SW, which I'm sure a lot of people understand, isn't completed yet and there could be more challenges that are thrown at us with future updates. I think a lot of the problem is having something that will continue to challenge you even when you're, lets say, 5 years in (which is a damn long time...).
Which is why i like the way hounds work (there's more hounds during attacks & attacks are more frequent) and i think if hostile mobs did more damage over time that would make more sense (so instead of tweaking the damage WE take, tweak the damage that hostile mobs can DEAL).
It would almost be like the mobs are growing, adapting, and getting stronger. Of course if that's ever a thing, it would need to cap out at some point (similar to hounds) otherwise you'd get one shot by a regular spider given enough time, which wouldn't be anyone's proudest moment.

But honestly, games like these that are kind of linear will become "easy" if you have enough experience under your belt. A game that pits you against other players will always have a certain difficulty because you're never the best. Solo games require constant changes/updates to stay interesting and "difficult" but then you run the risk of having your game change too much, needing to rebalance things, etc.
Basically, you can never please everyone because there's always going to be that one person who thinks it's "too easy" and another who thinks it's "too hard".

[4zakken]

12 minutes ago, Urfable said:

 

But honestly, games like these that are kind of linear will become "easy" if you have enough experience under your belt. A game that pits you against other players will always have a certain difficulty because you're never the best. Solo games require constant changes/updates to stay interesting and "difficult" but then you run the risk of having your game change too much, needing to rebalance things, etc.
Basically, you can never please everyone because there's always going to be that one person who thinks it's "too easy" and another who thinks it's "too hard".

Yep , that's why i wana have a possibility to make the game harder without penalize the other players who thinking the game is too hard. The only way i found for having a more harder game is to restrict myself , like don't use ice maker ( in fact i never build this machine ) , use only vegetable food , don't make gold tool , be nomad as maximum, wearing no armor  etc etc...

[Urfable]

2 minutes ago, 4zakken said:

Yep , that's why i wana have a possibility to make the game harder without penalize the other players who thinking the game is too hard. The only way i found for having a more harder game is to restrict myself , like don't use ice maker ( in fact i never build this machine ) , use only vegetable food , don't make gold tool , be nomad as maximum, wearing no armor  etc etc...

I made the ice machine once and then never made it again just because i couldn't be bothered to do so (it mostly stems from me playing wigfrid a lot and she can't eat most things that ice is REALLY useful for).
I think the game should be progressively harder which is the only way it makes sense to me. Of course anyone who is just starting out will struggle but if they make it past a year or two they should be fine with the increasing difficulty.

[PhelsarusBeel]

4 hours ago, Urfable said:

SW, which I'm sure a lot of people understand, isn't completed yet and there could be more challenges that are thrown at us with future updates. I think a lot of the problem is having something that will continue to challenge you even when you're, lets say, 5 years in (which is a damn long time...).
Which is why i like the way hounds work (there's more hounds during attacks & attacks are more frequent) and i think if hostile mobs did more damage over time that would make more sense (so instead of tweaking the damage WE take, tweak the damage that hostile mobs can DEAL).
It would almost be like the mobs are growing, adapting, and getting stronger. Of course if that's ever a thing, it would need to cap out at some point (similar to hounds) otherwise you'd get one shot by a regular spider given enough time, which wouldn't be anyone's proudest moment.

From a personal standpoint just increasing the damage each mob does over time is a stupid idea. It's basicly a way to add fake difficulty instead of proper one like the Hounds you said. Instead what should be done is add more Creatures akin to the Varg that can replace specific events (like Whales) and increase in frequency as the days progress.

Or at least create new creatures to reflect the growth of the enviroment but still live them alongside the weaker monsters. Mostly because i don't see a reason for the same type of spider to hit me for 3 times the damage just because it has been 2 years since i started this specific world. Now if we had another type of spider that shows up more frequently after X amount of days that's another thing and makes more sense then just each mob having more damage over time.

[Urfable]

9 hours ago, Mr.P said:

From a personal standpoint just increasing the damage each mob does over time is a stupid idea. It's basicly a way to add fake difficulty instead of proper one like the Hounds you said. Instead what should be done is add more Creatures akin to the Varg that can replace specific events (like Whales) and increase in frequency as the days progress.

Or at least create new creatures to reflect the growth of the enviroment but still live them alongside the weaker monsters. Mostly because i don't see a reason for the same type of spider to hit me for 3 times the damage just because it has been 2 years since i started this specific world. Now if we had another type of spider that shows up more frequently after X amount of days that's another thing and makes more sense then just each mob having more damage over time.

The way the attacks work is what i like but playing through it doesn't pose any real threat to me because it doesn't hurt. I loved the way the Varg worked and I even shared an idea about pirates replacing something like treasure loot so that you can fight them for a special item. The idea of different things spawning after a certain time or even replacing weaker mobs is fine, but I'm wondering how long that would last. If someone wants to play in the same world for years (in game), how many different types of mobs would there be and how much of a challenge would they become once you've gotten used to them?
After 2 years a spider isn't going to deal 3 times the damage to you because that sucks and is way too rapid of a growth. Even if it's a small increase in damage it should be gradual and not something that happens in 2 years. A different spider that starts spawning after X amount of days is going to do what? Probably deal more damage? There's already one that poisons so unless they add in a different type of poison, what more can this new spider do besides deal more damage and have a different attack?
I never said my idea was solid or the best thing ever but it's an idea. Saying it's a stupid idea isn't constructive and adds nothing to your point.

[PhelsarusBeel]

13 hours ago, Urfable said:

The way the attacks work is what i like but playing through it doesn't pose any real threat to me because it doesn't hurt. I loved the way the Varg worked and I even shared an idea about pirates replacing something like treasure loot so that you can fight them for a special item. The idea of different things spawning after a certain time or even replacing weaker mobs is fine, but I'm wondering how long that would last. If someone wants to play in the same world for years (in game), how many different types of mobs would there be and how much of a challenge would they become once you've gotten used to them?
After 2 years a spider isn't going to deal 3 times the damage to you because that sucks and is way too rapid of a growth. Even if it's a small increase in damage it should be gradual and not something that happens in 2 years. A different spider that starts spawning after X amount of days is going to do what? Probably deal more damage? There's already one that poisons so unless they add in a different type of poison, what more can this new spider do besides deal more damage and have a different attack?
I never said my idea was solid or the best thing ever but it's an idea. Saying it's a stupid idea isn't constructive and adds nothing to your point.

The problem is that the Idea is just not very good. Just increasing numbers from anything always feels like a desperate attempt to increase challenge to a game like how an RPG just recolors an enemy and gives it 10 times the stats that's not meaningfull difficulty that's just being uncreative.

And Don't Starve always has been that creative in the sense of making new ways to challenge the player. I remember back when the game was pretty barren next to no enemys besides Spiders, Tallbirds and the occasional Treeguard and nothing else. Over the course of many updates the game got increasingly harder through the Implementation of new Events (Houndwaves and Winter for example), new mechanics (food spoiling and insanity), and new enemys (Hounds and the Deerclops). Sure they could have increased some stats over time but instead we had other challenges thrown at us even in terms of optional stuff like the Caves or Adventure Mode.

And that's the thing just jacking up the stats of a creature doesn't create meaningfull difficulty it's a fake sense of difficulty because what used to be a bit threatening suddenly became a Nightmare to deal with just because i decided to play a lot longer in any given world. And Don't Starve was never about that type of difficulty it always tried to challenge you by throwing new and unexpected things at you not go the common RPG trend and just jack up stats.

That's why i said new creatures are a better way to increase difficulty rather then jacking up stats a new creature is something you might not expect and makes you change the way you tackle specifi situations. Poisonspiders was just one of mayn new things in SW that caught me offguard i admit however i thought it was a welcome change since i now have to think about different preparations i need to make before i take on Tier 2 Spiderdens or Spiderqueens since an unexpected Warrior might ruin a plan that worked perfectly fine in DS/RoG.

[Kraglok]

I'm of two minds on this.

I love, and have always loved, that Don't Starve is, by default, a "hard core" game.  You die and you're dead, with a light sprinkle of ways to resurrect.  With that difficulty in place, even those of us who have "mastered" the game still get surprised once in a while or know that getting careless will get you killed.  And that by itself is a goal for the new player to shoot for:  Try to reach the point where you think you could survive indefinitely.

But it's also true that, once you reach that point, you have to decide if it is worth it to keep playing.  What other goals do you have?  Make it to day 1,000?  Build a huge base?  Try to survive an entire year without ever making or using a Science Machine or Alchemy Engine? (Yeah I did that last one in RoG and it was a big challenge and lots of fun)

Having some extra layer of difficulty (Harder Hard Core?  Metal Core?) would be a fun addition to the game for those who still want the challenge to ramp up.  I'm not sure that SW is even the place to implement such a thing.  Perhaps a mod that gradually increases monster damage and lowers the hunger/health/sanity restored by food over time?  I dig the idea and I'd play it for the challenge.  But I don't think SW should, by default, be a super-challenge DLC.