My 170 hours with Invisible Inc.


Recommended Posts

This sounds so foreign to me because I do pretty much the complete opposite. The nicest way I can put this is in my opinion they're all garbage except Flurries but nobody wants to kill Harbingers so I don't need more than one. Volt Disrupter 3's cost 5 power but it's implied you have to use it twice (10 power) within a short time otherwise it should have been a Neural Disrupter instead and use 0 power.

 

Oh, Nika and Sharp both carry a Neural Disruptor III and Volt Disruptor III each.

 

I tend to run Central, Sharp, Nika, and Xu.  I use the "double-tap" method w/ Nika + Predictive Brawling sometimes, if necessary, but I don't often rely on it.

 

To each their own; running Fusion + Internationale + Banks sounds like garbage to me, and this is coming from a once-diehard Fusion advocate, lol.  Internationale is nice until you start finding Scanners and Banks can be replaced the second you pickpocket a security key, which is usually on the first-second turn.

 

But hey, to each their own.  You can run 4 Port Server IIIs while watching your PWR reserves, I like to run 0 Servers and trigger Daemons for endless PWR (Central also carries MONST3R's DART gun to trigger her own Daemons when there aren't any left on devices, but that is due to my game being modded to allow me to find Central, Monst3r, Prism, and Sharp in Det Centers).

 

That's the real beauty of this game.  There isn't any single way to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the real beauty of this game.  There isn't any single way to play.

Of course. My first endless run was with Central and I didn't like how "dirty" it was. I much preferred all my runs after which were "clean". In hindsight the Central playstyle is more unpredictable so it could take longer to get stale past day 10 but I kind of view endless as a 10 day campaign and don't care for going past it.

 

My "clean" playstyle is pretty much the same past day 10. Fractal is annoying but still not bad as the 10 turn waste of Blowfish. I think my record for finishing the objective and making it out of a Fractal mission is 11 turns, without triggering a single daemon, getting liberal use out of EMP's and some Cloaks.

 

Having Neural + Volt sounds even worse than just Neuralx2, I'd struggle to be KO'ing enough guards with 4 Neurals between 2 agents to even have a time where I'd say "damn I wish I had a Volt here to KO more".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 days endless, never used single server.

 

Power managemant: Arhcive dr. xu + Prism, + implants + prasite 2.0 + Seed, seed is OP for endless, just take high-cost effective hack programs and ure good.

 

That setup works very well! Archive Xu with 7 cloack III plus Torque Injector is very powerfull. Every turn you can cloack and generate power. Add Chameleon Movement and Holocircuit Overload and nothing will stop you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I clocked an additional 30 hours with the game, and managed to get both the Daemon Code and No Looking Back achievements on Expert Plus.

 

I did the Daemon Code run with Central instead of my usual Banks and the random daemon installs didn't screw up any of the missions, I did in fact score some free credits (600 if I recall correctly) from Incognita turning the daemon installs around.  Central was a natural replacement for Banks (with her high starting Anarchy) and I developed her in the same way.  The only agent I managed to pick up along the way was Nika, so I only had 4 agents for the final mission but I got lucky with the level layout and it didn't get too messy when Countermeasures kicked in.

 

The No Looking Back run was a real nail biter, and I put in a real virtuoso performance on the final mission.  I started that run again with Interanationale and Central, and couldn't find any other agents until the start of Day 3.  I used more med gel in this run than in all my other playthrougs combined.  After two really hairy Detention Center missions on Day 3 I managed to get Shalem and Decker for the last mission.  I also got lucky by squeezing in a final Nanofab Vestibule mission just before the end of Day 3 where I spent all my credits and bought a Drilling DART for Shalem and a Cloaking Rig III for Decker.  I forgot to save enough credits to upgrade Decker's speed for the Cloaking Rig, so I ended up selling my two vanilla neural disruptors along with some of my other gear just for that. In the final mission I managed to steal enough credits to rig Monst3r with Chameleon Movement which proved to be the game winner at the end.  The final level layout was horrible with loads of locked doors and no nearby guards with keycards (I really started missing Banks here).  The mainframe and the security terminal were miles apart and the two guard elevators were right outside the mainframe room.  I also had to contend with four guards with Armor 3 who I couldn't touch with anyone but Central (who had the only Neural Disruptor III).  I beat the level with max alarms, twelve guards on the floor, and no usable items (either out of ammo or on cooldown) - the only remaining way I could still make use of Shalem, Decker, and Internationale is by having them run around the map making noise or sitting on guards to prevent them from waking up.  The clutch moment transpired when Shalem got surrounded by four guards ready to kill him.  I ran Decker and Monst3r up within a few tiles of him and triggered Decker's cloak.  Monst3r kept sprinting forward towards the mainframe, Shalem slunk away to keep shooting with his Drilling Dart, while Decker sprinted back the way he came at the end of the turn leading the four guards who surrounded Shalem away from everyone else.

 

I also updated my original post with some info on Seed.  I tried it out on another playthrough, and I must say I'm a new convert.  I started with Parasite to go with Seed, and managed to find Oracle in the 2nd mission on the first day.  I was steamrolling the hacking part of the game since then.  The only hairy moment came when I did a level 2 Sankaku mission in Cybernetics Lab where I ran into TWO Akuma drones and one guard all in the same central room.  **** hit the fan when I triggered a sound bug by mistake when I shot an unconscious Enfrocer (who spawned due to triggering validate) with an Obake drone I hacked (the drone wasn't near a sound bug but the dying Enforcer was).  It took me forever to hack the Akuma drones with Parasite while trying to stay out of their view.  The icing on the cake was the new Enforcer that spawned on the very next turn to replace the dead one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also updated my original post with some info on Seed.  I tried it out on another playthrough, and I must say I'm a new convert.  

 

Glad to see you finally tried it out and liked it per my (and other people's) suggestion.

It truly is a wonderful program.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

told you ;-). the 'No Looking Back' has kind of a double meaning. a) you can use rewind to go back in time and b) you can't go back to using rewinds because of the excitment. Med Gel were were just some credit thatz took up space before I stopped using rewinds. and I've learned so much about distracting guards since I've forced myself to play out all the 'bad' situations. so much fun to be had.

 

Sedd + Parasite is my favorite combo but yes it makes early Sankaku runs risky. not having an all purpose instant hack program when doing Sankaku runs is dangerous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must come back to this thread now and say that i've learned to LOVE oracle now! Before I read this thread, i've always ignored oracle, as it seemed rather weak to me on paper. But now i feel like it's one of the strongest programs!

 

Of course, it combos especially well with seed. Getting one camera every turn for free is awesome. And even though hacking cameras on the normal way seems to be cheaper in early levels, oracle has some great advantages:

1. you get a general idea about how the whole floor design of the level after a few turns, as the cameras reveal various rooms on the map.

2. It tells you (passively and without cost!) when you own every active camera at the moment - which means you can run into rooms freely, if you have spotted all the guards! This is huge!

 

All in all i feel like you just save many turns and can go through the levels much quicker, if you utilitize oracle. It offers so much more information than one would initially guess when reading the description.

Seed + parasite is my new starting loadout for almost every setup now! And every time i see an oracle in a server terminal, it's pretty much a must buy for me!

 

Once again, thank you for this great thread, BuzuBuzu! It really made me rethink some of my strategies in invisible inc!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All in all i feel like you just save many turns and can go through the levels much quicker, if you utilitize oracle. It offers so much more information than one would initially guess when reading the description.

Seed + parasite is my new starting loadout for almost every setup now! And every time i see an oracle in a server terminal, it's pretty much a must buy for me!

 

Once again, thank you for this great thread, BuzuBuzu! It really made me rethink some of my strategies in invisible inc!

 

I'm glad you found my write-up useful.  This game is so full of interesting mechanics that make the gameplay really spectacular when you're familiar with them.  Once I figured some of them out, I thought I'd be a shame if I didn't share them with anyone else.

 

Seed and Oracle have unbeatable synergy, and since I've started using Seed (thanks to a recommendation in this thread), Oracle is number one on my program shopping list.  That one free camera per turn is fantastic, and once you get a good amount of power you can sometimes hack the entire level's suite of cameras in one turn.  I was playing with Central on a recent Endless Plus run and got the Fractal 2.0 daemon (installs daemons on all devices) on a mission after Day 5.  I hacked all the cameras on that level on my first turn AND ended up with full power (thanks to Central's unique augment).  Badass!

 

Another program that I've used quite a bit in my new Endless Plus run is Data Blast.  The hackable area is really huge.  It says radius 5 in the program description but you only really realize how big of a swath you can hack when you install and equip it.  You can really take advantage of it in Sankaku missions where the mainframe device density is so great that you end up hacking five things in one go.  I started off with Seed and Parasite, and picked up Data Blast on the second day.  After getting used to it, and filling up the rest of my program suite with Lockpick 2.0 and Oracle, I opted to drop Parasite instead of Data Blast when I ran into a Hunter in my recent mission.  It's been working out pretty good so far, the only problem I've run in to is when a daemon protected device (with something nasty like Validate or Blowfish) is in the middle of a group of otherwise hackable devices.  It's also sometimes hard to use it when you don't have visibility on the grid you'd like to center Data Blast on so it's not that efficient on your first few turns, but once you have some neighboring rooms mapped out it's a real blast to use (pun intended).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Datablast is really strong. I pair it with Lockpickv2 to skirt around daemons and lower firewalls into EMP range, which is something parasites and wrenches can't do.

 

Funnily enough when pretty much every device has magnetic reinforcements, EMP3's become a "super Datablast" with 7 radius, breaks 2 firewalls and takes out heart monitors.

 

I really wish Wildfire was better (+5 power, +1 all firewalls). I tried it out for a bit and ended up a little disappointed. My thinking was that Oracle takes out cameras regardless of firewall level, and everything else can just get Buster Chip 3'd, so it would be an almost free +5 power per turn. Early in the mission it is fantastic but there's just too many devices that receive the +1 firewall, so nearing the end the last couple safes and the mission objective has over 10 firewalls. They should make it randomly select 5 devices to receive +1 firewalls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BuzuBuzu, sorry for being a nitpicker on this one: But as we already agreed that the hand cannon is probably superior to shalems rifle, wouldn't it be consistent to use the Riot Dart over the drilling dart? As far as i know, the Riot Dart sacrifices one Armor Penetration for one additional shot per ammo pack. (And as you give it to Nika anyway, who should have three piercing scanners, you get +3AP anyway) The KO time is the same iirc, so the Riot dart should in theory be better?

I must admit though, that the Drilling Dart looks cooler (it's the rifle icon, same as desert wind or cooker)

And of course, we're talking about highly theoretical and perfect loadouts here. In a normal game, one would definitely pick up the first one to come. (Especially if you struggle to get enough AP on Nika)

 

I must say, i really really struggle with expert plus. Even the first mission screws me over most of the time. But it always feels like I have incredible bad luck :grin:  I don't know, it sometimes feels like stubbornness often kills you in endless plus? I pretty much all the time try to get every safe's (and mostly every guard's) loot before i exit the level - which most of the time manoevers me into impossible situations. But it's very possible that i'm just too bad :grin:

Have you ever considered writing a guide especially dedicated to expert plus maybe? (Or another Invisible Inc veteran) Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe you mentioned this thread is more about normal endless runs (which are already very hard - at least for me :grin: )

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Early on regular endless is a cakewalk compared to plus. In Plus you have to waste more AP/turns just to scout safely and of course you want to avoid KO'ing guards until you get EMP's/Xu. Later on past day 5 the difference matters less, the archdaemons are the same and the Harbingers start coming. Also in Plus at alarm level 3 all guards will be on full alert, I can't remember if regular endless has it as well, but that shouldn't be a problem for any missions except Blowfish2.0. If you know the general game mechanics there's not a whole lot of advice to give, just learn what's different about Plus, and try to stop goofing up.

 

I'm not sure about the discussion of non-biogenic/flurry ranged weapons. If you didn't start with archive banks or find an early econ chip then using any ammo weapons is going to be a huge waste of money for a long time. Late game I think you'll find you don't need to use them that often and you'll start to wish you had better augments than 3x armour pen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BuzuBuzu, sorry for being a nitpicker on this one: But as we already agreed that the hand cannon is probably superior to shalems rifle, wouldn't it be consistent to use the Riot Dart over the drilling dart? As far as i know, the Riot Dart sacrifices one Armor Penetration for one additional shot per ammo pack. (And as you give it to Nika anyway, who should have three piercing scanners, you get +3AP anyway) The KO time is the same iirc, so the Riot dart should in theory be better?

I must admit though, that the Drilling Dart looks cooler (it's the rifle icon, same as desert wind or cooker)

And of course, we're talking about highly theoretical and perfect loadouts here. In a normal game, one would definitely pick up the first one to come. (Especially if you struggle to get enough AP on Nika)

 

I must say, i really really struggle with expert plus. Even the first mission screws me over most of the time. But it always feels like I have incredible bad luck :grin:  I don't know, it sometimes feels like stubbornness often kills you in endless plus? I pretty much all the time try to get every safe's (and mostly every guard's) loot before i exit the level - which most of the time manoevers me into impossible situations. But it's very possible that i'm just too bad :grin:

Have you ever considered writing a guide especially dedicated to expert plus maybe? (Or another Invisible Inc veteran) Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe you mentioned this thread is more about normal endless runs (which are already very hard - at least for me :grin: )

 

I never really used the Riot DART, but you're absolutely right in that it can replace the Drilling DART if you have three Piercing Augments on an agent.  I don't put that many on Nika though.  I usually give her two, and give her a Net Downlink.  She isn't able to kill the Omni Soldiers with the Hand Cannon (unless I give her the Ventricular Lance as well), but that's why I have the Drilling DART.

 

Plus games do take a fair getting used to and can be quite unforgiving if you haven't gotten into a habit of peeking a lot so you don't run into things.  Like Nxf7 said, Plus games are a big step up from Expert but you're still playing the same game.  A whole new line of advice doesn't really exist, but I want to metnion two things that might help.

 

First, the big difference in Plus (and the one that will get you into trouble pronto if you're not in the habit of doing it) is that you need to do a lot of peeking.  Remember that there are two "levels" of peeking.  If you peek through a closed door, you only get a narrow cone of view originating from the door.  If you peek through a door when it's open, you get a view of the entire room.  My modus operandi for entering new rooms is always to put an agent next to a door, usually with enough AP to try and get out of the way (or at least with an attack ready).  I then peek once through the door, if everything looks clear I then open the door and peek again to see if the entire room is clear.  Then, if there's enough cover and I have enough AP left, I'll go into the room.  I also sometimes just close the door afterwards if there's not enough cover and I heard guard's footsteps nearby (they might end up in the room the next turn).  You retain the vision of the entire room after you close the door as long as you don't move your agent.  This is a fairly slow way of doing things but it does greatly reduce your chances of getting into trouble, an absolute must while playing Plus.

 

The second advice is to know your team limits and know when to start heading for the exit.  I'm a completionist by nature and loathe to leave a level with unopened safes or guards still in posession of their wallets, but some level layouts (especially early on when your agents don't have a lot of APs and you're not carrying any escape items like Cloaks or Stims) are simply impossible to fully explore.  A single safe early on holds a paltry 100-200 credits, which isn't really worth the danger of screwing up your entire game.  Endless games are a little more forgiving in that you have a little more time to get a good team ready before **** hits the fan on Day 5, so leaving a safe or two unopened is perfectly OK.  A slight variation of knowing when to quit is knowing when to go "loud".  This is usually a few turns before you start running for the exit when the situation is still under control but getting to a safe or a Nanofab quietly would just take too much pussyfooting.  It's perfectly fine to blitz the security presence and raise alarms at this point as long as you're prepared for the consequences.  I actually quite enjoy this sometimes, especially on the Endless missions when Blowfish 2.0 puts you 5 turns away from every guard on the level going crazy anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 Piercing Scanners on Nika seems like a complete waste of unrecoverable augment space to me.  But then again, I just give her Flurry Guns and 1 Piercing Scanner and use the other 2 slots to round her out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you very much BuzuBuzu. About the peeking mechanics, I am well aware of them and use them just as you described. :) I usually don't fail in endless plus because I run into guarded space by accident, more like because I just can't keep up with the tracker and the alarm gets too high.

 

I think my real problem is the urge to get every last credit out of every level. I just should learn to accept when it's time to leave :D But I always feel like "oh man, this level was already incredibly hard, if I don't get all the money to upgrade as far as I can, i will certainly fall behind the curve and the next levels will be even harder" - The new strategy should probably be "get as much as you can, but make sure all agents hit the elevator before it's too late"

 

 

3 Piercing Scanners on Nika seems like a complete waste of unrecoverable augment space to me.  But then again, I just give her Flurry Guns and 1 Piercing Scanner and use the other 2 slots to round her out.

Well, Flurry guns are the other strategy, as they bring +2 AP, which is huge. But then, you'd need at least two of them, taking away very valuable inventory space. The hand cannon gives three shots alone and can be recharged. (Of course, you'd need maybe another slot or two for a charge pack then)

I actually think both ways are viable - getting 2 or 3 flurry guns on her and a single piercing scanner, or 2-3 piercing scanners and a hand cannon for more inventory space. And of course, there is the pwr consumption of flurry guns, which can stack up quickly, if anatomy analysis is used i guess.

 

Same goes for the darts, a biogenic dart offers 2 AP and does not need charge packs. But if the situation gets worse than expected, you might find yourself with all guns on cooldown when you'd definitely need another shot. Working with charge packs might be a bit more planable and predictable..

 

 

In a real game, it also depends on what you can get, of course. But this is all about theoretical "perfect" layouts :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can agree w/ that, the beauty of this game is being able to play however you like and outfit agents exactly as it suits your own playstyle.

 

My Nika and someone else's may not be the same, but they can both still be optimal... for us.  : )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Flurry guns are the other strategy, as they bring +2 AP, which is huge. But then, you'd need at least two of them, taking away very valuable inventory space. The hand cannon gives three shots alone and can be recharged. (Of course, you'd need maybe another slot or two for a charge pack then)

I actually think both ways are viable - getting 2 or 3 flurry guns on her and a single piercing scanner, or 2-3 piercing scanners and a hand cannon for more inventory space. And of course, there is the pwr consumption of flurry guns, which can stack up quickly, if anatomy analysis is used i guess.

Can shoot a Flurry multiple times in 1 turn so you're not obligated to have multiple just to match a single Hand Cannon, but I suppose that depends on why you're killing the guards in the first place. 

 

I rarely use a ranged weapon because it's convenient at the time, most of the time it's "I screwed up, where's my get out of jail free card?". And unless if you use anatomy analysis, guns basically can't be used in these situations because the guard you just accidentally walked into will probably still have his heart monitor (or worse if it's a Harbinger). Darts however can be used here since in Plus it's only +1 alarm if their monitor is still active. This is why I take 1 Flurry, 2 Biogenics. Flurry for the convenience of not having to pin or taking out cyberguards, Biogenics for get out of jail free cards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.