Boar Head Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 It really bothers me that an agent has to be behind waist high cover to shoot. Why can't he/she just quickly pop out from behind the wall, shoot and then just duck back in? I just had a situation where a guard was overwatching Internationale and Shalem couldn't get behind him to shoot him so he had to do it from the front, the problem of course being that there was no way for him to get an angle without moving into the guards' vision. I'm just wondering, was that a purposeful design choice or something that got overlooked or simply not thought about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmentlegen Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Head Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Like this? I mean, it would be pretty badass if one of the agents was able to do that...but I just suggested that they are able to pop out from behind the wall, shoot and just duck back behind it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirsh Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I mean, it would be pretty badass if one of the agents was able to do that...but I just suggested that they are able to pop out from behind the wall, shoot and just duck back behind it...Sound like something that can make Shalem more popular than now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormerine Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Oh yes.... They should give this to Shalem. i might be wrong but I believe that in earlier builds of the game it was easier to shoot guards. If you need explanation, thing that when your agents are sticking to the wall, they hide, not peek. I must admit I still have problem judging when I will be able to shoot someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzleQ Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Oooh, yeah, let's make this an added feature of Shalem 11's augment . He was an assassin so giving him lightning quick abilities to shoot guns makes some sense canon-wise while making his not-so-unique augment suck less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
____ Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 The X-Ray Rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morik Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 You can do exactly what you are describing OP: - Walk out from behind the wall (for 1 AP) - You will get overwatched, but its fine, because: - Shoot the enemy. Overwatch gone. - Walk back behind the wall (for 1 more AP) So you can, but it costs 2 AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chieftainjoe Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 You can do exactly what you are describing OP: - Walk out from behind the wall (for 1 AP) - You will get overwatched, but its fine, because: - Shoot the enemy. Overwatch gone. - Walk back behind the wall (for 1 more AP) So you can, but it costs 2 AP. I am very sure, you can NOT do that if the guard you are trying to shoot is already targeting one of your other agents. He would shoot your agent the very moment you'd walk out from behind the wall (granted this square is actually "watched by the enemy")Apart from that, I guess I have a pretty neutral opinion on this topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morik Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I am very sure, you can NOT do that if the guard you are trying to shoot is already targeting one of your other agents. He would shoot your agent the very moment you'd walk out from behind the wall (granted this square is actually "watched by the enemy")Apart from that, I guess I have a pretty neutral opinion on this topic... Hmm, I'm pretty sure I did do exactly that and it worked, but I could be misremembering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chieftainjoe Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hmm, I'm pretty sure I did do exactly that and it worked, but I could be misremembering. Maybe your new agent was not on a noticed or watched area, even though the red cone of sight was somewhat misleading? If they didn't change anything recently, i am pretty sure that an alerted guard with his gun drawn out will shoot "any" agent who enters a watched or even noticed square. And if nothing moves at all in this turn, he will shoot the agent which he spotted...even though your agent did exactly what he told him and stopped. Kinda rude, if you ask me... Or maybe your targeted agent got out of sight first and then another agent entered line of sight? This would cause them to go alerted again, but NOT shoot immediately (giving you time to draw first). I'm pretty certain on these guard behaviour mechanics, unfortunately, i can not test it right now. Apart from that: Even getting spotted from a guard now immediately increases the alarm by one. And also alerts nearby guards to your position (if there are any close nearby). So right now I see almost no situation, where you'd want to reveal yourself - even if your plan is to attack this guard right away. (Even though I was in a level once where I think I really had no other choice but to get a guards attention by running on red-terrain. He was stationary, blocking the whole way to the elevator, there was no way around him and i didn't have any equipment to lure him..and i couldn't even run close to him to get him to hear me. Also no doors or *anything* to make him curious...But that's another story) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Head Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 You can do exactly what you are describing OP: - Walk out from behind the wall (for 1 AP) - You will get overwatched, but its fine, because: - Shoot the enemy. Overwatch gone. - Walk back behind the wall (for 1 more AP) So you can, but it costs 2 AP. You can do that, what you can't do is step into their line of fire while they're already overwatched, even if it's another agent. It's what prompted me to make this post. I was in a situation where one agent was overwatched and needed saving however I could not get an angle on the guard because there was no cover to hide behind and shoot from so I couldn't do anything to stop him since I couldn't get around him to shoot him. I tried to get behind a wall and shoot him but it said I had no line of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morik Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yeah sorry I was misremembering. You can do it if the guard isn't already on overwatch or if you don't walk into his FOV.It does raise alarm though . I agree it would be nice to be able to shoot around a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangzz Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 It really bothers me that an agent has to be behind waist high cover to shoot. Why can't he/she just quickly pop out from behind the wall, shoot and then just duck back in? I just had a situation where a guard was overwatching Internationale and Shalem couldn't get behind him to shoot him so he had to do it from the front, the problem of course being that there was no way for him to get an angle without moving into the guards' vision. I'm just wondering, was that a purposeful design choice or something that got overlooked or simply not thought about? I think the answer is precisely that it would make things easier. The game isn't XCOM where you're supposed to go through the level and shoot everyone. Ranged weapons are supposed to be a 'oh ****' sort of option, and be awkward and dangerous to use. Especially with some of the enemy types that instantly shoot you when you come into view instead of entering overwatch, an ability that would be seriously nerfed if you could shoot from cover. Or if there are multiple enemies overwatching a position, in which case you'd die under the current system. Also coding an animation for stepping out from cover, shooting, going back into cover is a lot of effort for something that would only rarely come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangzz Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Also, XCOM:Enemy Unknown has kinda trained you to expect to be able to do this, but in most tactical strategy games corners don't work that way. The implementation in Invisible Inc is the standard approach, and also consistent with how other stuff work. (For example, you can't diagonally melee enemies from the corners of walls either, you have to wait for the enemy to go past.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Head Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think the answer is precisely that it would make things easier. The game isn't XCOM where you're supposed to go through the level and shoot everyone. Ranged weapons are supposed to be a 'oh ****' sort of option, and be awkward and dangerous to use. Especially with some of the enemy types that instantly shoot you when you come into view instead of entering overwatch, an ability that would be seriously nerfed if you could shoot from cover. Or if there are multiple enemies overwatching a position, in which case you'd die under the current system. Also coding an animation for stepping out from cover, shooting, going back into cover is a lot of effort for something that would only rarely come up.Yeah I understand what you're saying, it was just kind of frustrating because I felt like the situation could have been completely under control if I could do what I'm proposing here and it felt like it should be doable since guards are supposed to have worse reflexes than the agents so I feel like an agent would totally be able to quickly pop out from behind cover and shoot before the guard would be able to react. Luckily I gave myself 1 rewind because it was Expert Plus and I wanted to give myself 1 out just in case so I could complete the game at least once. Are there enemies in the game that shoot you without going into overwatch? I know there was at least 1 enemy that was planned to do that but I'm quite sure they didn't make it into the final game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeClancy Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Are there enemies in the game that shoot you without going into overwatch? I know there was at least 1 enemy that was planned to do that but I'm quite sure they didn't make it into the final game. Not per se, but the turrets might qualify. They start in a non-overwatched state, and when they spot an enemy they go into an overwatched state. At this point, they do not go back into the non-overwatched state (two blue scanning lasers will appear over the turret if it is in "overwatch"). I say this because one time, I hacked a turret that had seen an agent, due to me not being able to see the power supply for it. Later, the turret immediately shot a guard, even though usually the turret waits for a moment before shooting. Because the turret was on overwatch already, it just fired immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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