I ran into a problem

[IamWeasel]

I have been playing this game for only one day now, so there might be something I don't know yet, but in my last game I ran into an annoying problem.

 

I started a "steal advanced stuff" mission (don't know the real name). I uncovered the entire map with two agents (thats all I had) before alarm phase #2 kicked in.

 

There were two guards. One was a regular guard and one guard was behind a red door, guarding the safe where the cool stuff was in. I zapped the first guard, stole his stuff and pinned him but he had no keycard on him. I tried to attract the other guard's attention by running passed the door, but to no avail. He did notice something and there was an interest indicator on the map, but he was glued to the floor and never came out.

 

I didn't really want to wait for alarm phase #4 to spawn another guard because I was very close to the exit. But the question remains: would that have been my only option? Or is there some other way to obtain access or a keycard that I don't know?

 

[Sirouhei]

As of right now, your only other option would have been to use Banks, she can unlock doors without a keycard.

 

We need more ways to deal with locked doors, that's for sure. An Incognita program would be great for starters. Personally, I want to be able to make holes in the walls.

[hatem]

guards can't open locked doors even if they're carrying a keycard, that's why he didn't come out.

I think it's a bug that he spawned in that room in the first place. 

 

I'm not 100% sure but from what I've seen, additional guards that spawn later on, don't carry anything on them(no money, keycards or anything else)

 

 

[IamWeasel]

Thanks for the useful answers. I didn't know Banks can open doors without using a keycard. I wanted to finish the game with Brian and Internationale at least once so I didn't really look into the other agents yet.

Also I hadn't noticed that guards are unable to open the red doors. I guess that makes my strategy of stealing the cards superfluous.

I am not sure about the later spawned guards not having any items; I'll look into that.

Thanks!

[IamWeasel]

@hatem

 

Whilst playing the game tonight I kept a close eye on those spawning guards. My guess is you are right: additional guards that spawn later on don´t yield any loot...

 

Certainly a point of interest; I hope Klei will alter that in the near future.

[Jason]

The situation you ran into was a bug. The guard should not have been able to spawn in the locked room. If he did indeed have the passcard, you wouldn't have been able to get at him to get it. I fixed that for the next update

Guards that spawn in are intentionally loot free. It would be possible to farm them for infinite money if they had loot.

[IamWeasel]

The situation you ran into was a bug. The guard should not have been able to spawn in the locked room. If he did indeed have the passcard, you wouldn't have been able to get at him to get it. I fixed that for the next update

Guards that spawn in are intentionally loot free. It would be possible to farm them for infinite money if they had loot.

 

Ok, the door thing is a bug... that part is clear.

 

What I don't get, is why the later spawned guards have to be loot free. Once you have taken their inventory, shouldn't they  be empty? How does that result in to infinite money? Just asking.

[nrec]

I might be mistaken but i thought there was always a path to the elevator without any locked door involved, locked doors only being there to give you additonal paths/options.

[hatem]

@IamWeasel because after alarm level 6 guards will keep spawning. If you have something like a shock trap you can easily keep knocking everyone out and looting every new guard coming in the level.

 

@nrec except for R&D missions. In these missions, the main vault with the valuable item is always in a room with just one locked door.

[IamWeasel]

@hatem

 

Aha, I didn't know that either. Until now I've never had an alarm #6

 

In that case they should give the later spawning guards just keycards. And of course they should fix the guards can go through red doors when they have a card thing. That way you can steal their cards to seal of their pathways.

[hatem]

@IamWeasel once a door is unlocked anyone can pass through it including guards. I kinda like the fact they don't unlock locked doors because it's useful as a distraction system sometimes. I make noise right outside the locked door and the guard has to go all the way around to find me. once he leaves the room with the locked door, I unlock it and go in.

The game tries not to base too many things on luck. You need to be able to take calculated risks. 

Not knowing if a guard will be able to unlock a door or not could leaves too much to chance:

guards take the shortest route to their interest point if one door is locked and the other is not you won't know which one he'll come from(if he has a card or not)

 

or it could make the whole card stealing thing useless:

You can just make noise on the other side of the door and the guard will open the door for you 

 

[IamWeasel]

@hatem

 

Since the keycards unlock the red doors, the guards should be able to unlock those themselves regardless. When you steal a keycard from a guard, he can no longer open the red door. This would add a layer of strategy imo:

 

- Red doors can be opened by guards with keycards, but you don't know who has a keycard

- Check out if a guard has a keycard (with an "inventory scan" augment... would be cool)

- Steal it from him if he has one

- Lock doors to alter his patrol

 

Sounds calculated and meaningful to me

[Inky03]

In regards to later spawned guards not having anything in their inventory, I am pretty sure that a few times I was able to steal medgels or ammo from them when I had a character with Anarchy maxed.  Now you have me wondering if that was intentional or not.

[5thHorseman]

You can just make noise on the other side of the door and the guard will open the door for you 

 

Not if it auto-closes-and-relocks when a guard goes through it.

[hatem]

@IamWeasel @5thHorseman

I just don't think making doors lockable again is that easy to pull off, balance wise. There's a lot to think about. What stops you from locking all guards in the R&D room? What if you open a door and then a guard with another key card comes through? Will he lock it or will he leave it open? If he locks it you'll have to pass cards back and forth between agents a lot to keep unlocking doors over and over. Plus I can think of many ways to exploit this system for example, what I meant by "the guard will unlock the door for you" is that even if he relocks the door, he will now be on your side of the door with a keycard.. (Just be in melee overwatch near the locked door,when he opens it and comes out you KO him, take the keycard and lock him behind you) you'll be able to tell if he has a key card or not just by predicting his movement after making noise you don't need an augment for that.

The player would be just plain overpowered (banks grossly so) if locked doors worked for you and not against you. If I could exploit normal doors, imagine what I'll be able to do with locked doors..

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/41042-door-trick-overwatch-exploit

Also with how bothered people are with forgetting to close doors I don't think adding another layer of frustration (forgetting to lock/unlock doors) would do the game any good IMHO.

[5thHorseman]

@hatem I never suggested the PLAYER be able to lock doors, just the guards. Realistic? No, but neither is guards carrying key cards that can apparently only unlock doors, and then never using them

 

My idea was simple: Guard goes through a locked door, they re-lock it. You manually unlock a door, it stays unlocked for the remainder of the level.

 

I'm not sure whether or not it'd be better or worse. Your concerns are valid but I'd like to actually try it. Is it that much more an exploit than the current "Run in front of the locked door, and then when they leave the room to take the long way around unlock the door and get the goods" plan that exists now.

[hatem]

@5thHorseman sure, I'd like to try things out too, ideally. It's just that I like the current system and I don't think the devs will go for this chnage (but you never know). expierementing with this would be cool when they add support for modding.

For now I'd like it if they explained the behavior of the current system better. Maybe the guards have normal key cards with low clearance and when agents get their hands on one they can override the clearance level to use it on locked doors?