PvP in PvE for Don't Starve Together announced as OPTIONAL

[Flare2V]

Alright, I've seen far too many threads involving some form of debate, dispute, rant, or other nonsensical typing involving people being able to beat other people with their stick-mounted flint apparatus and why they think it's wrong, right, or wrong only some of the time. Now that I've wowed you with my up-to-par vocabulary, I can only hope you will allow yourself to read what I believe to be the best solution to this problem.

First up, the most widespread idea people have had about this problem: a setting allowing you to enable or disable pvp. Sounds great, right? If I want to beat people up/get beaten up I can choose so, and if I prefer cooperation I can have that too! Let's think about this for a moment. If pvp became a toggle, that'd mean that whenever you turned it on pvp would become the focus. You would try to knock each other around until your f key just couldn't take it anymore. This too, would not work at all as every world in Don't Starve is randomly generated, adding massive luck factors to each round of combat. People wouldn't be able to spawn next to each other as whoever picked the beefiest character would win outright, and in the case of same characters being picked, latency would win over everything else. Even if the map was generated symmetrically and the players were given an equal start, it could all be decided on something as simple as who found the ice staff setpiece first. There'd be no way to give either player a truly equal fighting chance in this format of gameplay.

 

The next idea that has been thrown around as well is that pvp should be turned off completely.  However, with pvp disabled, other players could bully you mercilessly without a way to defend yourself. They could burn your farms, hammer your structures and take your things leaving you without any way to retaliate. What are you going to do? Examine them? Simply put, it just wouldn't work. I guess you could argue that there might be building or chest protection features per player but this takes away from Don't Starve as the brutal survival-sandbox-adventure game we know it as today. Keys to lock chests makes sense, but a stone hammer being slammed against a crudely-made wooden plank box and being repelled as if it were nothing? Grass that only burns when the torch is held by an oddly specific person? Being the single living creature that is physically incapable of striking another mortal man? None of this would be found fitting for Don't Starve in any way, shape or form. Even Wendy can lay the beatdown on Abigail if she gets too big for her ectoplasmic britches.

This brings out the last idea, and the best solution to this horrible debate that has plagued the "Together" section of the Don't Starve forums for far too long. Pvp permanently enabled. "Hold your gosh darn horses", I hear you cry. "What if my friends decide to hurt me?". Simplest answer, find yourself some better damn friends. In the case Klei adds some bootleg-ass worldwide matchmaking feature to the game and you meet a random and aggresive person, you'd be boned anyway as made evident in the previous paragraph. Pvp or no pvp, you probably wouldn't live too well if the other person didn't want you to. However, having it always enabled at least lets you fight back, or in the case you team up with a friend of yours, to not fight at all. Now, let's say you want to fight. With pvp always enabled, that wouldn't be a problem. You could mod yourself a custom arena map, or just plain out have at it. There'd be no restrictions against it.

 

The last solution is the best solution to this problem. If you are against this solution, feel free to take it up against me in the comments. I'd love to turn this into a debate, and hopefully settle any doubts you have on this well fleshed-out idea.

Thank you for reading, and I do hope you and your chums find something to eat before night comes. Or maybe just eat 'em, it's up to you.

[J20hawkz]

@Flare2V just one thing to consider. Sorry I know we are discussing this in private message. If PvP is always turned on, wouldn't it be better to have a bind key as you suggested earlier in this thread, on page 4 I believe. So that way while attacking a monster with a friend you won't automatically start targeting each other while holding down attack.

[Flare2V]

@Flare2V just one thing to consider. Sorry I know we are discussing this in private message. If PvP is always turned on, wouldn't it be better to have a bind key as you suggested earlier in this thread, on page 4 I believe. So that way while attacking a monster with a friend you won't automatically start targeting each other while holding down attack.

That sounds about right. Fun fact, it's already in the game. If you hold the left cntrl key while clicking on something or pressing attack, it'll allow you to attack neutral or friendly creatures. Same should apply for other people, I agree.

[J20hawkz]

With the new Option suggested by Flare2V, I'm changing my vote to Option 4. The reason for my decision is explained in "Summary", OPTION 4, in the Original Post.

"OPTION 4 (added on request): Vote for having PvP always turned on with a bind key that activates PvP while being held down, which allows us to then attack other players by clicking/pressing attack (while the key is held). For example hold Ctrl+Spacebar (attack key for me) to target a player. This will avoid accidentally targeting and attacking a friend while you both fight the same monster or chop trees, mine rocks etc..."

[Flare2V]

With the new Option suggested by Flare2V, I'm changing my vote to Option 4. The reason for my decision is explained in "Summary", OPTION 4, in the Original Post.

"OPTION 4 (added on request): Vote for having PvP always turned on with a bind key that activates PvP while being held down, which allows us to then attack other players by clicking/pressing attack (while the key is held). For example hold Ctrl+Spacebar (attack key for me) to target a player. This will avoid accidentally targeting and attacking a friend while you both fight the same monster or chop trees, mine rocks etc..."

Spacebar to attack? I like your style. Never got used to the attack key after Beta either, then?

[J20hawkz]

Spacebar to attack? I like your style. Never got used to the attack key after Beta either, then?

Nope. It's Spacebar or Nothing!

Old way was the best way. First thing I did was change the in game controls to that.

[J20hawkz]

Anyone who thinks OPTION 4 (suggested by Flare2V) is the best solution to PvP being in PvE, please feel free to change your vote.

[Ashpoker]

 

 However, with pvp disabled, other players could bully you mercilessly without a way to defend yourself. They could burn your farms, hammer your structures and take your things leaving you without any way to retaliate. What are you going to do?

 

I just can't grasp the logic behind this.... why the f*ck would i or anyone else want to burn donw your base ? or destroy everything ?

I'm sorry i'm not able to think this way. Cooperation and peace is the only and most effective way of living (both ingame and RL).

 

And another idea that you didn't consider .... why would you want to fight back if you encounter an agressive person ? Just don't fight back. Leave the game and find another. That's just a terrible waste of time so pvp always on is terrible idea too. Imagine you enter a new game 5 times and there is always some assho|e to bully you. I would uninstall the game and find something else.

 

Klei would loose many gamers if this was the case.

[Flare2V]

I just can't grasp the logic behind this.... why the f*ck would i or anyone else want to burn donw your base ? or destroy everything ?

I'm sorry i'm not able to think this way. Cooperation and peace is the only and most effective way of living (both ingame and RL).

 

And another idea that you didn't considered .... why would you want to fight back if you encounter an agressive person ? Just don't fight back. Leave the game and find another. That's just a terrible waste of time so pvp always on is terrible idea too. Imagine you enter a new game 5 times and there is always some ******* to bully you. I would uninstall the game and find something else.

 

Klei would loose many gamers if this was the case.

There are people out there who would burn your stuff. I just added that in there for all those who think that "trolling" or "bullying" would stop with the removal of pvp. I wouldn't do that, you wouldn't do that, but there are players out there who would. As far as fighting back against an aggressive person, what if you had the chance at winning? If you won, all of their resources would be yours for the taking, not to mention you'd have your spot back on that server (that's implying that servers will work like a drop-in drop-out type situation, which I hope to all hell it isn't the case).

[Ashpoker]

There are people out there who would burn your stuff. I just added that in there for all those who think that "trolling" or "bullying" would stop with the removal of pvp. I wouldn't do that, you wouldn't do that, but there are players out there who would. As far as fighting back against an aggressive person, what if you had the chance at winning? If you won, all of their resources would be yours for the taking, not to mention you'd have your spot back on that server (that's implying that servers will work like a drop-in drop-out type situation, which I hope to all hell it isn't the case).

No i wouldn't fight even if i had a chance of winning.

[J20hawkz]

@Ashpoker we aren't asking for a separate mode. Actually as you can see most people are against that. What we do want is to be able to lay some hurt on someone while we play together. There are many reasons for that. For me personally these are the reason why I would love for PvP to be in PvE

1. Takes out the Vote Kick feature. If someone starts to troll, it would be a shame to kick them after 100 days, at least let us beat some sense into them. Giving them a chance to change their ways.

2. Avoids us having to leave if a troll is let loose. We worked hard in this world so why leave just because someone decides to go ape and hammer all our walls and burn our farms and berry bushes. Again we pull out our spears and chase that person/people away.

3. You dislike how the other player is arranging things at main base, again instead of cursing at each other in chat, simply pull out your spear and chase them out of base, building traps to keep them out permanently. Then during the night go splinter cell with moggles, find them and finish the job or wage an endless war on their base.

These reasons are intended for humour. If it doesn't work out how we all intended I won't be too bothered. But right now it seems like a viable option and there are way better reason for that discussed throughout this thread and forum.

[Flare2V]

No i wouldn't fight even if i had a chance of winning.

Haha, different strokes man, different strokes.

[Ashpoker]

How about something so simple like special attribute. If this building is not constructed by you you can't destroy it and can't touch it at all. This way there would be no chance for bullying or incentive to hurt one another. Also the RoG should always start with Spring and that way you wouldn't even want to fight one another even if you could because you would be too bussy surviving.

 

Problem solved.

[J20hawkz]

How about something so simple like special attribute. If this building is not constructed by you you can't destroy it and can't touch it at all. This way there would be no chance for bullying or incentive to hurt one another. Also the RoG should always start with Spring and that way you wouldn't even want to fight one another even if you could because you would be too bussy surviving.

Problem solved.

But if everything is locked so that the person who constructed said wall, is the only person who can destroy it, then team work is lost. What if I don't like how you put a straight wall through a certain part of our base and I want to remove it? I would have to wait for you to destroy and relocate the wall? No thanks

Also not 100% sure about RoG being in Don't Starve Together. It would make sense for it to be available as an option to turn on for everyone who has the DLC. But then you won't be able to play with friends who don't have the DLC.

Maybe Klei were planning Multiplayer way before/around the same time as the DLC. They already have a toggle for the DLC in place. I bet they use that same feature for Don't Starve Together. I can only assume there will be a server for Reign of Giants owners and a server for those who don't own Reign of Giants.

[Flare2V]

How about something so simple like special attribute. If this building is not constructed by you you can't destroy it and can't touch it at all. This way there would be no chance for bullying or incentive to hurt one another. Also the RoG should always start with Spring and that way you wouldn't even want to fight one another even if you could because you would be too bussy surviving.

 

Problem solved.

 

 

I guess you could argue that there might be building or chest protection features per player but this takes away from Don't Starve as the brutal survival-sandbox-adventure game we know it as today. Keys to lock chests makes sense, but a stone hammer being slammed against a crudely-made wooden plank box and being repelled as if it were nothing? Grass that only burns when the torch is held by an oddly specific person? None of this would be found fitting for Don't Starve in any way, shape or form.

 

This kills the sandbox. Also, if a player could claim an object/resource, there would be a race to see who could get the most of the non-renewable resources first (which I should have added in my original post). Not an option man, sorry. :^(

[Ashpoker]

But if everything is locked so that the person who constructed said wall, is the only person who can destroy it, then team work is lost. What if I don't like how you put a straight wall through a certain part of our base and I want to remove it? I would have to wait for you to destroy and relocate the wall? No thanks

Also not 100% sure about RoG being in Don't Starve Together. It would make sense for it to be available as an option to turn on for everyone who has the DLC. But then you won't be able to play with friends who don't have the DLC.

Maybe Klei were planning Multiplayer way before/around the same time as the DLC. They already have a toggle for the DLC. I bet they use that same feature for Don't Starve Together.

Geee you still think so singleplayer-ly. You don't have Mumble/TS/Skype/etc. ? As you gather resources you can discuss the layout of the base and make things right from the start. Also there is an addon that snaps the buildings into grid so everything is nice and tidy.

[Ashpoker]

This kills the sandbox. Also, if a player could claim an object/resource, there would be a race to see who could get the most of the non-renewable resources first (which I should have added in my original post). Not an option man, sorry. :^(

What exactly is non-renewable in RoG ? They made almost everything renewable.

[Flare2V]

But if everything is locked so that the person who constructed said wall, is the only person who can destroy it, then team work is lost. What if I don't like how you put a straight wall through a certain part of our base and I want to remove it? I would have to wait for you to destroy and relocate the wall? No thanks

Also not 100% sure about RoG being in Don't Starve Together. It would make sense for it to be available as an option to turn on for everyone who has the DLC. But then you won't be able to play with friends who don't have the DLC.

Maybe Klei were planning Multiplayer way before/around the same time as the DLC. They already have a toggle for the DLC in place. I bet they use that same feature for Don't Starve Together. I can only assume there will be a server for Reign of Giants owners and a server for those who don't own Reign of Giants.

As far as servers are concerned, I was hoping that they would work something like this (it seems like the best fit for this game)

1. All players must be present to start a multiplayer game.

2. The game can only continue when each player in-game is currently present.

3. When a player is eliminated, they are no longer required to continue the game.

[Spazmatic]

How about something so simple like special attribute. If this building is not constructed by you you can't destroy it and can't touch it at all. This way there would be no chance for bullying or incentive to hurt one another. Also the RoG should always start with Spring and that way you wouldn't even want to fight one another even if you could because you would be too bussy surviving.

 

Problem solved.

Once you're out exploring from your base, I'll put a nice square of walls around the chest that contains almost all your items. I will do the same for your constructed items. But you want your items? Good luck with that, my walls cannot be destroyed.. Trust me, there will always be a way for people to grief/harm you if they so desire.

 

Play with people you trust and not with strangers so you won't get griefed. You're extremely against PvP/griefing, find people that have the same mindset.

[Ashpoker]

As far as servers are concerned, I was hoping that they would work something like this (it seems like the best fit for this game)

1. All players must be present to start a multiplayer game.

2. The game can only continue when each player in-game is currently present.

3. When a player is eliminated, they are no longer required to continue the game.

 

I think they should make the game like the good old LAN games. Just the ability to create local games with friends on their servers and that's it. Pure and simple.... and i bet your fried wouldn't turn on you so pvp is not a problem here.

[Ashpoker]

Once you're out exploring from your base, I'll put a nice square of walls around the chest that contains almost all your items. I will do the same for your constructed items. But you want your items? Good luck with that, my walls cannot be destroyed.. Trust me, there will always be a way for people to grief/harm you if they so desire.

 

Play with people you trust and not with strangers so you won't get griefed. You're extremely against PvP/griefing, find people that have the same mindset.

OMFG why everyone is thinking about ways how to harm others. Why can't you think the other way ? How to help each other rather then harm.

[Flare2V]

Geee you still think so singleplayer-ly. You don't have Mumble/TS/Skype/etc. ? As you gather resources you can discuss the layout of the base and make things right from the start. Also there is an addon that snaps the buildings into grid so everything is nice and tidy.

Y'ALL IMPLYING I AIN'T GOT FRIENDS? :'^(

I thought all of this through very thoroughly, I know the logistics of voip and you should know that that would by itself help combat teamkilling and griefing. You think your Vent buddies are gonna torch your base? I doubt it. No disrespect to y'all, but... I might have to lay the Beatdown(with including Maximum-Told™ functionality) if you keep arguing against things I've mentioned in my initial post.

 

What exactly is non-renewable in RoG ? They made almost everything renewable.

Grass tufts, saplings, berry bushes, and even trees would be non-renewable if one player managed to take them all.

[Flare2V]

Once you're out exploring from your base, I'll put a nice square of walls around the chest that contains almost all your items. I will do the same for your constructed items. But you want your items? Good luck with that, my walls cannot be destroyed.. Trust me, there will always be a way for people to grief/harm you if they so desire.

 

Play with people you trust and not with strangers so you won't get griefed. You're extremely against PvP/griefing, find people that have the same mindset.

This guy gets it.

OMFG why everyone is thinking about ways how to harm others. Why can't you think the other way ? How to help each other rather then harm.

WE GET IT YOU'RE NOT SHALLOW HOLY BAGOOBY

BEATDOWN INC

[Ashpoker]

Grass tufts, saplings, berry bushes, and even trees would be non-renewable if one player managed to take them all.

But grass, sticks, berries and trees are renewable. All you need is 30-40 of them and you're set for the entire game.

[J20hawkz]

Geee you still think so singleplayer-ly. You don't have Mumble/TS/Skype/etc. ? As you gather resources you can discuss the layout of the base and make things right from the start. Also there is an addon that snaps the buildings into grid so everything is nice and tidy.

I have Skype etc...but I prefer to play online games without it. I've never used any form of "microphone" based system in games before. Don't like the distraction is all. Want to say something to me? Steam chat and/or hopefully chat box in Don't Starve Together

Once you're out exploring from your base, I'll put a nice square of walls around the chest that contains almost all your items. I will do the same for your constructed items. But you want your items? Good luck with that, my walls cannot be destroyed.. Trust me, there will always be a way for people to grief/harm you if they so desire.

 

Play with people you trust and not with strangers so you won't get griefed. You're extremely against PvP/griefing, find people that have the same mindset.

+1