Fix the trees...

[dbernard456]

I wonder if it has occurred to people that using tree and other blocking items to build fortress is a little gamey. I doubt it was intended that people could wall-in using these items. There should be a minimum distance around trees where other trees can live. A simple solution is to induce a small area around the tree that poison the other trees (it exist in nature).

I am not against building wall and fences, but they should be built with items intended to block.

Of course the should be different quality of wall/fence and they should require some maintenance over time.

They should also be destructible by some monsters.

I also think they should cost a great deal of resources and time to build, after all, building a safe haven is a major accomplishment in a survival situation.

[mobius187]

Well in the future there may be enemies that can use fire, so the trees would burn. Then if they would just collapse, well then the tree would be gone. Me? I prefer building practical walls... out of chests. It works fine and it's great for storage.

[qwerm]

Well in the future there may be enemies that can use fire, so the trees would burn. Then if they would just collapse, well then the tree would be gone. Me? I prefer building practical walls... out of chests. It works fine and it's great for storage.

yeah, latest update was gonna have flame hounds, this is proly the exact countermeasure to people using a tree fortress; I am not looking forward to having to deal with those things, soooo, i'm proly just gonna keep a panflute on me at all timeand fight them out in the open until I can develope a better perimeter.

That said, you say chests don't burn?

[dbernard456]

Well in the future there may be enemies that can use fire, so the trees would burn. Then if they would just collapse, well then the tree would be gone. Me? I prefer building practical walls... out of chests. It works fine and it's great for storage.

I think using chess as walls is also gamey and should be avoided. Dev could impose minimum distance between chess and other blocking items.

My argument : chess are not intended to be walls. Its nether realistic nor good for the gameplay.

[mobius187]

That said, you say chests don't burn?

I never tried... but then I built Fort Chest-a-Lot to help me deal with normal hounds, not fire hounds. So I'll have to wait and see what happens.

My argument : chess are not intended to be walls. Its nether realistic nor good for the gameplay.

Probably not, but for now they block pathfinding and that makes them pretty useful. Now if chests burn or enemies can fire over chests (ranged attack) then that would open up flaws in such a defense. Mind you, the key purpose I'm aiming for is anti-hound. And depending on how that works out I will probably need to venture forth from my new base Sooner or later... then the HOUNDS!

Edited November 27, 2012 by mobius187

[Joyousterror]

What does gamey mean? Putting a required distance gap on trees and chests would be pretty clunky and probably obnoxious to new players or people just decorating/placing normally. I would get frustrated really fast. How would they handle already placed items?

As far as hounds i get what you're saying. I think hounds will be punishment enough. Lets wait for the update to see

(We can't stay in these forts forever.)

Edited November 27, 2012 by Joyousterror

[mobius187]

What does gamey mean?

As in "questionable", or he thinks it's too close to an exploit that morally we shouldn't be doing it. Thankfully I have no morals and gameplay footage of me playing as Wendy would prove this fact in spades.

But seriously, I'm doing it for kicks. Eventually Klei will make some huge update that will require us to create a new map, or I'll die (uh... Wendy that is), and then I'll start from scratch again. For now it's not just fun, it's OUR JOBS to find any explotable mechanic and show the DEVs so they can nip it in the bud if it goes against the theme of the game. The Sooner we find these issues for them, the better.

Putting a required distance gap on trees and chests would be pretty clunky and probably obnoxious to new players or people just decorating/placing normally. I would get frustrated really fast. How would they handle already placed items?

Well they already enforce placement of objects, after all you can't plant trees one on top of another. To be honest if the distance only factors into the initial placement of placeables (i.e. buildings, fire pits, trees, chests, bushes, crock pots, ect) then I would be fine with a small space between these objects, as a means to allow a player to pass between them. My main reason for this is that I have pathfinding issues currently with my berry bushes and I hate seeing Wendy running in place when I tell her to walk through a bunch of them... so annoying.

As far as hounds i get what you're saying. I think hounds will be punishment enough. Lets wait for the update to see

Hounds will kill me... I'm sure... they're coming for me... I'm almost at Day 200. They are upset with us living too long!

(We can't stay in these forts forever.)

Well I have enough food stockpiled there for... oh... 30-40 days. There's also a rabbit hole inside one end of my fort... and with a rabbit trap I can slowly stockpuile meat morsels.

[Joyousterror]

As in "questionable", or he thinks it's too close to an exploit that morally we shouldn't be doing it. Thankfully I have no morals and gameplay footage of me playing as Wendy would prove this fact in spades.

But seriously, I'm doing it for kicks. Eventually Klei will make some huge update that will require us to create a new map, or I'll die (uh... Wendy that is), and then I'll start from scratch again. For now it's not just fun, it's OUR JOBS to find any explotable mechanic and show the DEVs so they can nip it in the bud if it goes against the theme of the game. The Sooner we find these issues for them, the better.

Ahh okay never heard the term gamey, thanks. I agree. I think it's fine that we do it. We all helped glorify walls and forts on the forums when we knew it would get fixed or he would add enemies that can jump over solid blocks. We could of just kept it to ourselves but eventually we have to generate new worlds anyways and it's just a beta. It's our job to exploit these things. It's not really cheating. Dogs are cheating =P (just kidding)

Well they already enforce placement of objects, after all you can't plant trees one on top of another.

Right. They won't allow you to put them directly in each others hit boxes. If you have items on the floor for paths you can't place things too close to the items. I love being able to stack grass and trees for farming purposes though. I just think it's the wrong kind of fix. It punishes everyone for something a small amount of people are using. Just make dogs ignore solid items or create jumping characters.

Hounds will kill me... I'm sure... they're coming for me... I'm almost at Day 200. They are upset with us living too long! I have enough food stockpiled there for... oh... 30-40 days. There's also a rabbit hole inside one end of my fort... and with a rabbit trap I can slowly stockpuile meat morsels.

Fresh into day 100+ here. I know i'll be going down . I think it will happen the second i leave this fort. Good luck buddy!

[mobius187]

...I love being able to stack grass and trees for farming purposes though. I just think it's the wrong kind of fix. It punishes everyone for something a small amount of people are using. Just make dogs ignore solid items or create jumping characters.

Yup. I also love how grass stacks so easily next to each other. I don't care about order, I just clump it all randomly together. I don't think Kevin would ever change this, as there's no need. Grass doesn't impede pathfinding like chests, the same is true for saplings.

Fresh into day 100+ here. I know i'll be going down . I think it will happen the second i leave this fort. Good luck buddy!

Yup. When I get home today I'm going to wait a bit... see what happens. Then the next game day I'll risk running to my old base camp and bringing over more of my gear/supplies to Fort Chest-a-Lot. I'm worried about this Krampus fellow... especially after Kevin hinted that "thefts" would be something to beware of Soon enough.

[Joyousterror]

Yup. I also love how grass stacks so easily next to each other. I don't care about order, I just clump it all randomly together. I don't think Kevin would ever change this, as there's no need. Grass doesn't impede pathfinding like chests, the same is true for saplings.

Yeah. For grass it won't really matter. Aren't saplings solid too? They would make the easiest wall system ever next to trees. I think the thing is no matter what gets changed we will always have items to exploit for walls. I think the fix should be in the enemy AI not the items. If dogs jump over or pass through anything we build to fortify... Then we'll never build forts again most likely. It's one change instead of every items hit box adjustment.

Yup. When I get home today I'm going to wait a bit... see what happens. Then the next game day I'll risk running to my old base camp and bringing over more of my gear/supplies to Fort Chest-a-Lot. I'm worried about this Krampus fellow... especially after Kevin hinted that "thefts" would be something to beware of Soon enough.

You're a risk taker there haha. I don't even trust running back to main camp. (I saw those puppies out during the day.) I backed up and cleared my game. I'm going for the full patch experience to see how dogs progress . Once people tell me 100+ days of dogs isn't that hard. I'll be back... maybe. I bet krampus ends up a chest thief like turkeys vs berries.

[mobius187]

Aren't saplings solid too?

Nope. You can walk right through them.

They would make the easiest wall system ever next to trees.

Except for the fact that anything can walk right through them... making for terrible walls.

I think the thing is no matter what gets changed we will always have items to exploit for walls. I think the fix should be in the enemy AI not the items. If dogs jump over or pass through anything we build to fortify... Then we'll never build forts again most likely. It's one change instead of every items hit box adjustment.

Either or, but I naturally assume chests will be flammable and the fire hounds will nix this exploit eventually.

I bet krampus ends up a chest thief like turkeys vs berries.

He will... he will. To that I say BEE MINES EVERYWHERE!

[Joyousterror]

Nope. You can walk right through them. Except for the fact that anything can walk right through them... making for terrible walls.

Hahahaha such a fail on my part. I've played up to 110 days strafing around my twigs figuring i couldn't pass through.

Either or, but I naturally assume chests will be flammable and the fire hounds will nix this exploit eventually.

Personally i'd prefer the smarter dogs. Nothing scarier than fortifying and seeing puppies climb over trapping you in. That's a good way to learn from a mistake right there But i agree it's still cheap. I can't wait until he implements real walls with durability

He will... he will. To that I say BEE MINES EVERYWHERE!

Bee mines are going to my new favorite toy. I really really hope i can get my pigs to become aggressive towards him. A pig house per chest!

[mobius187]

Hahahaha such a fail on my part. I've played up to 110 days strafing around my twigs figuring i couldn't pass through.

Really? And during that entire time nothing decided to pass through them? To be clear, I'm referring to saplings which you harvest for sticks. Not trees. Trees are solid and block pathfinding.

Personally i'd prefer the smarter dogs. Nothing scarier than fortifying and seeing puppies climb over trapping you in. That's a good way to learn from a mistake right there

I will test them...

Bee mines are going to my new favorite toy.

Yup. First thing I have to do now is go and catch some (live) bees.

[Nickdy]

Personally, it takes a rediculas amount of pine cones to build a wall of trees, so I don't really believe that that would be a problem, secondly, chests really don't serve as walls very well considering a majority of mobs will push them out of the way. And I do agree that there should be a fence but I don't think it should be very expensive. But let me explain how I feel they should work.

Mobs: Mobs will only try to destroy the fence if provoked to attack you.

Damage: The fence will visibly show that it is damaged and will require wood planks/wood to repair

Placement: This should be sort of click and drag to define the parameters of the fence and will have a moderately harsh limit

[mobius187]

Personally, it takes a rediculas amount of pine cones to build a wall of trees, so I don't really believe that that would be a problem

Not to mention the fire hound will apparently set things on fire... I haven't seen him yet though.

secondly, chests really don't serve as walls very well considering a majority of mobs will push them out of the way.

Hmmm? What build are you playing? Two updates ago chests became glued to the ground and are immovable objects. And I tested it against hounds, and yup, they cannot pass them. I literally had two of them running against the chests and trying to reach me while I sat neat my firepit, ate dinner and waiting until morning before I beat them to death. Now imagine that same scenario once you get blow darts... instant win.

Of course there is the hope the fire hound will burn chests. And by "hope", I mean "terror".

And I do agree that there should be a fence but I don't think it should be very expensive. But let me explain how I feel they should work.

Mobs: Mobs will only try to destroy the fence if provoked to attack you.

Damage: The fence will visibly show that it is damaged and will require wood planks/wood to repair

Placement: This should be sort of click and drag to define the parameters of the fence and will have a moderately harsh limit

Mobs describes any group of creatures. I prefer to think that hostile mobs, like spiders and hounds would, on targeting you, break down fences to reach you. Provoked mobs, like beefalo or pig men would do the same, but only when you engage them in combat and then use the fence for protection. Lastly non-hostile mobs would simply be blocked by the fence.

How it should place was suggested very well by another forum member. It was in a way similar to Minecraft, but not as rigid. You started by placing a single fence post in the ground, and then when you place a second, if it's within proximity to the first fence post an outline will appear in green to signify that a fence will form between the two posts at whatever angle you want once you place the second post. And so on. If you want an opening you just need to place the last fence post far enough away from the first post that they don't "connect".

Edited November 28, 2012 by mobius187

[Incognito]

Ive yet to see a fire hound... I wonder if i light a normal hound on fire he'll become one lol

[HopesRevenge]

Personally, it takes a rediculas amount of pine cones to build a wall of trees, so I don't really believe that that would be a problem,

UM Pine cones are very easy to get and the wall would not be to much of a problem since i have some 200 or more pinecones that i sometimes use for the fire.