Either characters have simpler kits, or Elsewhere won't have many characters

[Szczuku]

These are just some of my thoughts regarding how many characters we could expect from dse and how these character's would be implemented.

Characters in dst have come a long way. In fact, that road they've traveled was so long, that some of them are completely unrecognizable. Willow was just the lighter girl, now she's a spellcaster. Nowadays characters don't really fill niches, they are all slowly being pushed to the center of the Venn diagram of aspects of dst gameplay. 

Point I'm trying to make is: dst characters can do a lot. Which means that lines between characters become blurrier. Wanda can teleport - Wortox can teleport. Wanda has advantage at combat - Wortox has advantage at combat. Wanda has wacky stats - Wortox has wacky stats. Less and less reasons to choose one character over the other when they are both so similar.

So, the devs can either double down and repeat the same nonsense with Elsewhere. Bring back the entire dst crew and make every character be able to do just about anything and have almost no impactful downsides whatsoever. I don't know how would the devs then expect to add Elsewhere-exclusive characters when the pool of available "cool, unique aspects" would be so dried up.

Or they could only bring back some characters - like how we currently have only seen four. Unless dst has an ending where there's a reason that the rest are dead/missing then I don't see that being a good choice.

Or. We could return to characters having simple kits. Then we could have the entire dst cast return in dse and still leave enough niches for new characters to fill.

Let's take the freshest aspect of Elsewhere - verticality. Walter could have special mountain climbing ropes to drop down and create new pathways. Wolfgang could throw characters and items up a story. Wanda and Wortox could teleport. Webber could climb up walls. Wormwood could create root ladders.
But what if they didn't do any of that and instead Walter remained as a boy with a dog and a slingshot. Wolfgang as a strongman who hits hard. Wanda as a character with a time meter. Wortox as a soul-eater. Webber as the character that's neutral with spiders. Wormwood as the farmer. 
Maybe then Wilbur could be brought from Shipwrecked as a character that can climb up walls. What if instead of Winona having a Wagstaff/Charlie-sponsored loot boxes, Wheeler could return as an explorer with a knack for finding treasure in the more ruinous biomes of Elsewhere.

These are just my thoughts. It'd be fun to have all of our beloved characters return for this game. but unless Klei severely shrinks their kits, I don't see the appeal of 15+ characters where each one can do just about anything the other 14 can. We saw Wendy with Abigail which means that characters will have special traits, we just don't know whether Klei will take the approach of old don't starve or current together.

[Evelo]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Wormwood as the farmer.

 Wormwood is a plant first, farmer second! But yes, having simpler kits that focused more on the uniqueness of each character would be great. Both upsides and downsides.

Edited Monday at 11:15 PM by Evelo

[hhh2]

I vouch for "simplier kits".  I would much prefer the environment to be complex and living and seasonal and have its own character.  The characters were already funny with their own dialogue.  I thought the character dialogue was the appeal in Don't Starve when the characters (besides a few) were happily very similar.  I know other players liked the character dialogue too.  Wes's whole thing was no speaking but miming.  And obviously if the world is more bizarre, that leads to more funny or interesting comments or lore, things that we love.

Come to think of it, Klei's writers must be frightened at how much dialogue they will have to write for 15 characters.  I don't think they'll all make it.

[Creatorofswamps]

I think that all the characters with simplier kits are the most profitable option possible

 

4 hours ago, hhh2 said:

Come to think of it, Klei's writers must be frightened at how much dialogue they will have to write for 15 characters.  I don't think they'll all make it.

I'm sure there's no reason to worry about this, as they've handled it in the past and will continue to do so 

[Crazy Gorilla]

Fingers crossed there wont be any skill trees this time around and they just focus on the perks and downsides.

[maxwell_winters]

I hope the characters will be closer to how they were after the first series of reworks. Later ones, to be specific, like WX and Wickerbottom, not Winona and Woodie. They had enough depths without feeling too bloated.

[aidancode]

It'd be pretty cool if we got like 25 characters but they were all pretty simple and themed around one simple core gimmick. I think it'd like that.

[Squidyfoo]

Oh 100% agree with this, and it's something I've been thinking about a lot. I feel like having simpler base kits could also make multiplayer more fun as well, because then there's not super clear expectations if someone is playing as a character.

[Ridley]

A lot of rose tinted glasses for simpler times going on. What niche did lighter girl fill? Anyone remember how lame Abigail was outside of stomping stun-lockable enemies? Long respawn timer, no way to dismiss, folds against heavy hitting enemies?

What does simpler base kits even mean? Wigfrid has too many songs so remove the ones I don't like? Maxwell should revert to having simple servants that out preform Woodie at tree chopping? Winnona should go back to just having tape?

It is crazy and wonderful how this game has improved over the years, I don't understand how you all don't see it.

 

 

[Creatorofswamps]

1 hour ago, Ridley said:

A lot of rose tinted glasses for simpler times going on. What niche did lighter girl fill? Anyone remember how lame Abigail was outside of stomping stun-lockable enemies? Long respawn timer, no way to dismiss, folds against heavy hitting enemies?

What does simpler base kits even mean? Wigfrid has too many songs so remove the ones I don't like? Maxwell should revert to having simple servants that out preform Woodie at tree chopping? Winnona should go back to just having tape?

It is crazy and wonderful how this game has improved over the years, I don't understand how you all don't see it.

 

No one is saying to give up everything and do it like it was in DS. When they say it's easier, they mean to remove this huge clutter, balance it out by keeping the best and suitable, and make a "noticeable flaw" to ensure harmony. If you need an example, can roughly take the experience of DS and DST and do it correctly by finding a balance

[Crazy Gorilla]

1 hour ago, Ridley said:

A lot of rose tinted glasses for simpler times going on. What niche did lighter girl fill? Anyone remember how lame Abigail was outside of stomping stun-lockable enemies? Long respawn timer, no way to dismiss, folds against heavy hitting enemies?

What does simpler base kits even mean? Wigfrid has too many songs so remove the ones I don't like? Maxwell should revert to having simple servants that out preform Woodie at tree chopping? Winnona should go back to just having tape?

It is crazy and wonderful how this game has improved over the years, I don't understand how you all don't see it.

 

 

I dont think the consensus here was to bring back the very first solo versions of the characters. 

The new characters with skilltrees are great, I find it hard to play solo because of how much solo characters pale in comparison to DST. But I think what I and most others feel is that they can feel a bit bloated at times, not even necessarily that they are bad.

The DSE characters will have to be rebuilt to fit the new gameplay obviously, the question is mainly if they will take it in a new direction or do it similar to how DST currently does it.

Either way whatever we get I'll be happy, I love Dont Starve, with or without skilltrees.

[Creatorofswamps]

2 hours ago, Ridley said:

What does simpler base kits even mean? Wigfrid has too many songs so remove the ones I don't like? Maxwell should revert to having simple servants that out preform Woodie at tree chopping? Winnona should go back to just having tape?

Klei will definitely not be able to replicate all of DST's abilities exactly, as DSE will likely feature more unusual features. For example, graves might be missing, making some of Wendy's abilities irrelevant while others remain important. Or, for example, new unique interactions might be added for Wendy in DSE

 

21 minutes ago, Crazy Gorilla said:

The DSE characters will have to be rebuilt to fit the new gameplay obviously, the question is mainly if they will take it in a new direction or do it similar to how DST currently does it.

Yes, you have managed to convey my idea very succinctly.Thanks

Edited 22 hours ago by Creatorofswamps

[Ridley]

25 minutes ago, Crazy Gorilla said:

I dont think the consensus here was to bring back the very first solo versions of the characters. 

The DSE characters will have to be rebuilt to fit the new gameplay obviously, the question is mainly if they will take it in a new direction or do it similar to how DST currently does it.

I understand it is unreasonable to expect things from DST to be ported into DSE. I'm not even interested in saying what I think DSE should have because I just don't know much about it and probably won't until it is playable.

My comment was about how the nebulous suggestions that things become simpler are ignoring how things improved and how there is no consensus on what simpler even means. The point of why I bring this up was because I saw this as a continuation of using DSE to take swipes at DST that just feels cruel. I know some people don't mean it that way and I don't think it is inherently wrong to ask for simpler stuff.

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Ridley said:

I understand it is unreasonable to expect things from DST to be ported into DSE. I'm not even interested in saying what I think DSE should have because I just don't know much about it and probably won't until it is playable.

My comment was about how the nebulous suggestions that things become simpler are ignoring how things improved and how there is no consensus on what simpler even means. The point of why I bring this up was because I saw this as a continuation of using DSE to take swipes at DST that just feels cruel. I know some people don't mean it that way and I don't think it is inherently wrong to ask for simpler stuff.

My take on it is that everyone shouldn't be able to do everything at the same time. We have several minion characters, several characters who excel at gathering resources in the same way, several characters who have a built in counter to darkness, most of the cast has a combat modifier via personal weapons or stat boosts. If you look closely most of the cast has the same abilities repeated over and over with very little in the way of unique abilities and this is clearly because skill trees demand to much bloat. In terms of what characters can do I think they should be rolled back a lot but the main focus should be more so on how the character interacts with the world rather than how they interact with their abilities.

[Juny Pear]

Honestly I can see elsewhere still having a sizable cast with somewhat complex kits. Nothing on the level of what feels like almost every character having an answer for almost everything, but if they incorporate some of the better perks characters and skilltrees offer in dst in a more reserved way, and make sure both upsides and downsides guide players to a unique feeling playstyle even if the broader function of a few characters is similar, then I think we could end up with a really nice balance of perks that have some more depth to them compared to how they used to function in ds, without over bloating things like how skilltrees currently do for dst's characters in my opinion.

Just so long as there isn't a need for half the cast having a command wheel I think we'd be good with at least making their gameplay feel more involved than two stat tweaks defining the entirety of a character's identity, while still being able to have more than just 10 characters or something. Though even in that case I think the smaller amount of characters could make for more qualitative sets of perks overall.

Edited 4 hours ago by Juny Pear