I think they should delay the skill tree update and completely rethink it.

[Eclipsed Nox]

Don't get me wrong, the new circuit system should be added to the base game, but WX-78's skill tree seems to be almost as controversial as Wolfgang's, and I think it can be summed up in one word: lacking identity.

The vast majority of upgrades are copies of other survivors' abilities instead of being unique to WX-78, and this has always been a problem with the character: a lack of identity, in addition to just auto-upgrades. It's to the point of calling him Wilson 2.0. Both the Shadow and Lunar upgrades are disappointing because of their limited applications or because they're basically copies of Maxwell and Wigfrid's abilities. On the other hand,

the biggest success of WX-78's skill tree was undoubtedly the drones. They're fun to use, useful, and have a fair cost so they're not too easy to spam. I really think the affinities should have been more focused on drones, or had exclusive circuits for the skill. tree,

While the chassis never really convinced me much for anything other than teleporting, and many people feel the same way, that's why many dislike the lunar upgrade. Sacrificing checkpoints for a WX clone with less damage that eats and goes berserk just like you isn't worth it. The same goes for the enormous cost of upgrading the entire chassis system in general, since the increased circuit functionalities are still better, as is the functionality of the drones. I still think WX needs more flashy active abilities like Willow or Winona that work with Gamma circuits.

Honestly, the WX-78 skill tree needs a serious overhaul, and seeing that several people seem very convinced of this makes it clear that a patch that adds or removes things won't really solve the problem.

In any case, the best thing would be to simply release the new circuit system but leave the skill tree in development to balance, improve, or redesign it.

Keep in mind that... I say this not to discredit the great work of the game's developers, since Don't Starve Together is one of my favorite games and WX-78 is my favorite character, but precisely for that reason I can't just let this go. You have to appreciate both the good and the bad to truly love it and see it improve. I hope the developers see this and take it into account. I really want WX-78 to have a skill tree worthy of the ultimate machine of the constant.

P.S.: I'm a Spanish speaker and my broken English probably won't be entirely understandable. I apologize in advance!

[YouKnowWho142]

why do people think this skill tree is such a major failure?

[Baark0]

31 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

why do people think this skill tree is such a major failure?

Personally I don't think its a failure, just that it could do with some more development time. The 4 QoL skills are pretty boring (the one that lets you remove any circuit regardless of its position in your chassis should be baseline tbh), half of the chassis part of the skill tree seems really uninteresting and not particularly useful, the shadow affinity as a whole feels very random and out of place (why do inactive chassis spawn plants with minerals?), and gamma circuits feel underdeveloped. 

[Evelo]

47 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

why do people think this skill tree is such a major failure?

Same reason why Wendy was so controversial. So I am guessing entitlement or a desire to make a character powerful (to the detriment of balance).

[KINOTAKO]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

なぜ人々はこのスキルツリーをこれほど大きな失敗だと考えているのでしょうか？

Not really. It's more likely because the Affinities just completely miss the mark on WX's original concept.

Don't get me wrong, the idea for the Lunar skills is actually really good, and it works great as a natural extension of the chassis skills. However, what we really wanted was for the devs to flesh out and complete the core Circuit system before moving on to new mechanics.

Well, I guess we'll just have to hope for some additional patches after the official release.

Sorry, but there is absolutely no defending the Shadow skills, though.

[reddocc]

I will never understand the complains. With this skill tree Wx78 can live off doing practically nothing and do everything at the same time he's such a comfortable and versatile character to play I would say he's in the same level as Wortox if not higher.

Wx got infinite, health sanity, seasons management, mobility, resource gathering and hunger(almost infinitely). Wx78 Is objectively better than any survivor. Yet is not enough.

I would argue that He's almost at the same level as Maxwell because let's be honest they already surpassed Wanda.

[KINOTAKO]

Making him overpowered is just going to spawn a whole new wave of complaints anyway lol. Besides, most of us aren't complaining about the game balance at all—we're complaining about the core concept.

Edited April 14 by KINOTAKO
miss

[Mr Giggio]

Dude this type of post is so rude you guys should be embarassed to suggest this type of ****.

 

It has so much effort and good concepts that went throught the skill tree so far for a kid to be I dOnT lIKE iT rEsTaRt

[GamePlayer42]

the only problem i have is really the power creep for the affinity skills, they did a nice job with the utility side of things and everything else i am satisfied with but i think the way the lunar affinity works has alot of potential to break the game

[PunkShark]

As controversial as Wolfgang is one way to blow it out of proportion.

 

you cannot tell me this tree is near as bad as that. 90% of that tree is dmg increase and 10% of it is actually unique and thats being generous. And if we’re talking about the speed removal controversy, yeah no not even close.

i don’t even think you know what you want out of wx. Cause literally what else is there to do. What niche is there to fill. They can literally do anything by this point and yet that is not enough.

All this skilltree has done is given us far more variety at an already solid basekit that just needed more. Actually giving us a reason to not just use speed circuits only but allowing us to actually have fun with all the other circuits as well. Chassis allows even more of that without the cost of breaking the circuits and being able to have multiple builds. 

that is what makes Wx unique, they can create builds without having to worry about using conventional items and just go nuts with the rest of it. Nobody can alter their character as much as them but only a smidget of it using body slots which Wx does not need to worry about. And now on top of gamma circuits which is actually unique, and affinities having fun with the concept of possession. It has done nothing but make Wx actually fun and interesting imo 

 

[Fishgirl]

25 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

that is what makes Wx unique, they can create builds without having to worry about using conventional items and just go nuts with the rest of it. Nobody can alter their character as much as them but only a smidget of it using body slots which Wx does not need to worry about. And now on top of gamma circuits which is actually unique, and affinities having fun with the concept of possession. It has done nothing but make Wx actually fun and interesting imo 

 

i honestly agree with the original poster a little. I wouldnt mind if we had an extra week or two to cook in the oven. theres alot of feedback that we've had since day 1 that has gotten completely ignored, and i don't think the Alpha circuits or illumination are in.. the best state. super hardy's tinkering upgrade is still pretty atrocious, and i dislike how much shield was nerfed. as for the feedback, for as long as i remember in this beta, we asked for more chassises to use and to fuse/alter the bottom left skills. However, not a single format or skill change has happened in this whole beta, despite it all. it doesnt help that klei keeps adding weird stuff that just buries the past weird stuff. 

Edited April 14 by Fishgirl

[Mr Giggio]

1 hour ago, PunkShark said:

i don’t even think you know what you want out of wx. Cause literally what else is there to do. What niche is there to fill. They can literally do anything by this point and yet that is not enough.

My thoughts exactly. It just come across as entitled when people ask for a restart on trees, should be discouraged by any means and let this behavior die with the Wendy beta. People need to self reflect more before try to look smart with critiques that are as shallow as they respect for what is being done.

1 hour ago, Fishgirl said:

i don't think the Alpha circuits or illumination are in.. the best state. super hardy's tinkering upgrade is still pretty atrocious, and i dislike how much shield was nerfed

I gotta agree with this tho. Alpha got somehow not worth points and I would like to see more value for both point competitiveness and variety on styles. We are loosing if the alpha stays in this state and it shows again how people are a lot of noise when they see big numbers. Now they will not be picked over the other good stuff because a Guy was impressed by unrealistic 3 health circuits .

A way to make this happen is to progress status the same way Klei did with speed. The more circuits you have the less buff it gives but it's significant if you want to go full ham on that regard and still be a good versatile one if we rather pick one each once the first upgrade is the most relevant one.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Fishgirl said:

i honestly agree with the original poster a little. I wouldnt mind if we had an extra week or two to cook in the oven. theres alot of feedback that we've had since day 1 that has gotten completely ignored, and i don't think the Alpha circuits or illumination are in.. the best state. super hardy's tinkering upgrade is still pretty atrocious, and i dislike how much shield was nerfed. as for the feedback, for as long as i remember in this beta, we asked for more chassises to use and to fuse/alter the bottom left skills. However, not a single format or skill change has happened in this whole beta, despite it all. it doesnt help that klei keeps adding weird stuff that just buries the past weird stuff. 

Okay but what you asking for is to just make the character stronger but he's already very powerful. Especially in the case of trying to add more chassis.

Fusing the bottom skills does sound good though but at the same time them being separate falls in line with other skill trees which sell you the same kind of qol. Even characters like Walter didn't escape this and he had one of the best trees.

[Soul7k]

23 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

I gotta agree with this tho. Alpha got somehow not worth points and I would like to see more value for both point competitiveness and variety on styles. We are loosing if the alpha stays in this state and it shows again how people are a lot of noise when they see big numbers. Now they will not be picked over the other good stuff because a Guy was impressed by unrealistic 3 health circuits .

A way to make this happen is to progress status the same way Klei did with speed. The more circuits you have the less buff it gives but it's significant if you want to go full ham on that regard and still be a good versatile one if we rather pick one each once the first upgrade is the most relevant one.

this got brought up a bunch before and after the nerfs and throughout the whole beta. it's not going to happen 

[Jakepeng99]

It’s mainly just people who were upset about the Beanbooster and health circuit being nerfed

5 hours ago, Evelo said:

Same reason why Wendy was so controversial. So I am guessing entitlement or a desire to make a character powerful (to the detriment of balance).

Yeah exactly.

 

4 hours ago, reddocc said:

I will never understand the complains. With this skill tree Wx78 can live off doing practically nothing and do everything at the same time he's such a comfortable and versatile character to play I would say he's in the same level as Wortox if not higher.

Wx got infinite, health sanity, seasons management, mobility, resource gathering and hunger(almost infinitely). Wx78 Is objectively better than any survivor. Yet is not enough.

I would argue that He's almost at the same level as Maxwell because let's be honest they already surpassed Wanda.

 

A lot of people want their favourite character to be the best in the game and try to twist it into acting like he is one of the worst so he gets huge buffs.

[Mysterious box]

My personal thoughts on what I've experienced with the beta is that it's made him a character I'm interested in playing less so because of the passive circuits and more so because I find the active abilities fun while it obviously was his role his passive nature kinda pushed me away from the character. Also while people are complaining about the lunar clones fuel efficiency I feel like they're really overlooking alternative ways to improve their life spans as we have options like belt of hunger or bearger coat to help with that alongside hunger circuits. I know people are looking to min max but much like wx himself you need to consider what's the best fit to have the least stress. As for the shadow side honestly I probably won't use it much.

[Soul7k]

7 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

snip

the diluting of people down and gaslighting is real. not everyone has to like the changes that happened even though you wanted them

Edited April 14 by Soul7k

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, Soul7k said:

the diluting of people down and gaslighting is real

The WX complaints I mainly saw only happened when they nerfed some of the Alpha circuits, and most of the time were about them.

Before the skilltree mainly just got praise and a lot of people were requesting nerfs so Im confused how it all works.

[Soul7k]

19 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The WX complaints I mainly saw only happened when they nerfed some of the Alpha circuits, and most of the time were about them.

Before the skilltree mainly just got praise and a lot of people were requesting nerfs so Im confused how it all works.

there was far more discussion, but that was what you honed in on. and even if a lot of people were unhappy about that. what is the point of feedback if not to be indulged in some form or fashion. just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't reasonable feedback. there was a middleground on that nerf and it was totally ignored.

Spoiler

not only this, but one of the patches that nerfed it did not even have that change in the notes so people kept asking for a nerf that already happened.

 

Edited April 14 by Soul7k

[Fishgirl]

22 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Okay but what you asking for is to just make the character stronger but he's already very powerful. Especially in the case of trying to add more chassis.

yes that's exactly what im saying. they only excel in survival, i don't think 2 more chassises will end the world

Edited April 14 by Fishgirl

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Fishgirl said:

yes that's exactly what im saying. they only excel in survival, i don't think 2 more chassises will end the world

Each chassis is another full config you have access to and a additional lunar clone. It's a pretty big impact per body.

[Fishgirl]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Each chassis is another full config you have access to and a additional lunar clone. It's a pretty big impact per body.

you still need to kit them all out individually and care for them, i dont see the issue? you need to provide more armor, weapons, hunger AND sanity

[EsmeWatchesBird]

If you had 6 chassis you could get a grand total of ~4 times the damage output…. If you spent 10 times the resources. This is not overpowered.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Fishgirl said:

you still need to kit them all out individually and care for them, i dont see the issue? you need to provide more armor, weapons, hunger AND sanity

In exchange you get a massive increase in dps and utility and a variety of strategies not possible on other characters. Also your circuit layout can ease the burden of management if you choose the build them that way. He has circuits that heal his stats, make them larger, and even greatly reduce the hunger drain rate there's also clothing that can do the same that they can also use. Most importantly the clones only use half durability when using the equipment you give them. Yes you need to care for them but the payout is far more than worth it and people have already showcased just how good they are at handling boss fights if you use them properly. 

4 minutes ago, EsmeWatchesBird said:

If you had 6 chassis you could get a grand total of ~4 times the damage output…. If you spent 10 times the resources. This is not overpowered.

Where does the 10x resources come from?

[Fishgirl]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

In exchange you get a massive increase in dps and utility and a variety of strategies not possible on other characters. Also your circuit layout can ease the burden of management if you choose the build them that way. He has circuits that heal his stats, make them larger, and even greatly reduce the hunger drain rate there's also clothing that can do the same that they can also use. Most importantly the clones only use half durability when using the equipment you give them. Yes you need to care for them but the payout is far more than worth it and people have already showcased just how good they are at handling boss fights if you use them properly. 

you're acting like chassis has only 2 uses. Not including the like 5 other stuff warm standby accomplishes, chassies are:

Revives

Loadouts

Teleports

and expensive minions or harvesters (based on affinity)

and guess what! lunar affinity gets rid of all of this, just focusing on the minions

This genuinely circles back to again to not applying gameplay, context, or opportunity cost and instead looking at plain numbers. Like esme said, you need tons of resources to accomplish high damage, and the minions can still be prone to dying. Having 5 or 6 chassises to use would not harm any balance, but rather slightly free the player to use them to their full potential. Some can go to teleports, some can go to loadouts, and some can go to harvesting or minions! this isn't a complicated concept, we just have too much stuff to do with so little.